Week 3: Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - Boxing Forum - Boxing Discussion Forums
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View Poll Results: Who won the fight? (Give actual scores in thread)

Ali won (I didn't score the fight) 2 28.57%
Young won (I didn't score the fight) 1 14.29%
It was a draw 0 0%
Ali won (I scored the fight) 0 0%
Young won (I scored the fight) 4 57.14%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-13-2009, 10:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Week 3: Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young

Welcome to the third week of the fight scoring. For those who don't know what it's about, it's simple... each week we pick one close/disputed decision and we all score the fight. You don't have to participate and you can join in at any week you feel like it. This week's fight is one of the worst robberies of all time. Yet, it is somehow kept hush hush to protect the greatness of a man who proclaimed himself "The Greatest". Download links available for those who want to download and YouTube links for people who want to stream.

It would be great if you could give a ROUND by ROUND score (you don't have to though!) so for example:

Round 1: 10-9 Fighter A
Round 2: 9-10 Fighter B

You have until next Saturday to get your scorecard in before we move onto the next fight. Enjoy the history lesson.

Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young
Location: Capital Centre, Landover, Maryland, US
Referee: Tom Kelly
Judge: Larry Barrett 70-68 Ali
Judge: Terry Moore 71-64 Ali
Judge: Tom Kelly 72-65 Ali
WBC & WBA Heavyweight Titles
Weights: Ali 230lbs, Young 209lbs

YouTube Links:
YouTube - Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - 1976-04-30_Landover,Md 1
YouTube - Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - 1976-04-30_Landover,Md 2
YouTube - Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - 1976-04-30_Landover,Md 3
YouTube - Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - 1976-04-30_Landover,Md 4
YouTube - Muhammad Ali vs. Jimmy Young - 1976-04-30_Landover,Md 5

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Old 03-14-2009, 02:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Alright, il check out the YT links on Monday and post my score up. So far we got:

Week 4: Brutus
Week 5: R9-Ronaldo

Week 6 is up for grabs for anyone...
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I didn't see Young do anything that would qualify the fight as a horrible robbery.

Both fighters were a little boring. Didn't bother scoring it properly (couldn't be bothered...but neither could some judges today.) but I'm of the belief you have to earn a title. If you don't visibly do enough, you shouldn't be granted the win, regardless if you're up a point.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Alright, il check out the YT links on Monday and post my score up. So far we got:

Week 4: Brutus
Week 5: R9-Ronaldo

Week 6 is up for grabs for anyone...
I'll take week 6 if it's free
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tsentralnaya View Post
I didn't see Young do anything that would qualify the fight as a horrible robbery.

Both fighters were a little boring. Didn't bother scoring it properly (couldn't be bothered...but neither could some judges today.) but I'm of the belief you have to earn a title. If you don't visibly do enough, you shouldn't be granted the win, regardless if you're up a point.
You probably scored Valuev over Holyfield too.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You probably scored Valuev over Holyfield too.
Holyfield did nothing to deserve the title. Title fights should be wars on the behalf of the challenger. All the defender has to do is defend. If, as the challenger, you don't fight as if you have your life on the line, you don't deserve the W.

You just deserve an Obama quoted:
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tsentralnaya View Post
Holyfield did nothing to deserve the title. Title fights should be wars on the behalf of the challenger. All the defender has to do is defend. If, as the challenger, you don't fight as if you have your life on the line, you don't deserve the W.

You just deserve an Obama quoted:
Learn how to score fights please. When the other guy can't land as many punches, can't hurt the guy, and overall is clowned in the ring, he doesn't deserve to keep his title. There's no rule that says the challenger has to be the aggressor.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Learn how to score fights please. When the other guy can't land as many punches, can't hurt the guy, and overall is clowned in the ring, he doesn't deserve to keep his title. There's no rule that says the challenger has to be the aggressor.
I understand how to score fights, but I don't think a numerical score tells all in boxing. You disagree, that's cute, disagree all you want. But if all I cared about was the compubox numbers at the end of a fight, I wouldn't bother watching.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Young Wipes the Floor with Ali

Round 1: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali initially comes out quickly. He swings wildly and misses Jimmy by a mile. He then goes into his usual high guard position and just puts pressure on Jimmy without throwing any punches. Often enough he invites Jimmy to land body shots, and Jimmy does so frequently. Jimmyís jab lands often, mostly to the body, but some get in at the head as well. Ali on the other hand lands nothing, and generally isnít even trying to. Then at about 1 min and 45 seconds into the round, Ali tries to land a counter right hand. Jimmy slips the punch, and lands a clean right hand flush on Aliís face. Jimmy then goes back to work for the rest of the round, working the body, landing the jabs up top occasionally, all the meanwhile Ali does absolutely nothing but cover up and come forward.

Round 2: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali comes out quickly again, dispensing with the high guard entirely this round. He lands a 1-2 combination in the first 5 seconds, but then Jimmy takes over once again. With Ali actually trying to box now, Jimmy even lands more clean shots to the head than he did before. Ali is still applying the pressure, and is looking for an opportunity to explode. He finds one midway through the round, but Jimmy just shoulder rolls and Ali is largely ineffective. Jimmy once again takes over, and Ali just canít find an answer. He tries to counter Jimmy here and there, but Jimmy just slips, and counters him clean and effectively.

Round 3: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali goes back to the high guard this round. Ali officially does absolutely nothing for the first half of the round, while Jimmy scores points with the body shots. He drops the high guard momentarily looking to land something, but canít find anything. He then decides to voluntarily fall back into the ropes and bait Jimmy in. Jimmy just walks to the center of the ring, forcing Ali to come to him. There will be no rope-a-doping in this fight. Ali waves at Jimmy to come to him, but Jimmy however defiantly waves him off. Ali comes forward again with the high guard, and Jimmy puts good combinations together around it. Jimmy then gets two head jabs through Aliís high guard, Ali tries to counter, and Jimmy slips it again. Ali drops the guard again, trying desperately to land something meaningful this round, but it just doesnít happen. Ali, who let his hands go in the last 45 seconds, maybe landed 2 punches tops. Jimmy slipped the rest.

Round 4: 10 Ė 9 Ali
Ali finally opens up this round. He starts off bouncing, puts together good combinations, and is out working Jimmy. Only problem is, he isnít landing anything. Jimmy is doing a lot of ducking under, and rips the body of Ali when he falls inside. Ali frustrated, leans on Jimmy when he ducks under, eventually pushing him down to the canvas midway through the round. The round finishes the same it began, Ali out working but missing, Jimmy countering to the body. Overall they landed about the same amount of punches, but given that Ali was the aggressor and let his hands go this round, I give it to Ali. This is the first round of the fight that Ali can have any claim to winning, and he barely won.

Round 5: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali seems to want to keep up the momentum of the last round, but his activity slightly drops, and his predictability has gone up. As such, Jimmy times Ali much better this round, and instead of Ali missing by an inch, he now misses by a mile. Jimmy is also working the distant jab to the body again. Aliís hooking a lot this round, but none land. No hooks for Ali have landed the entire fight. Jimmy lands the only clean shots of this round, both to the body and the head. Not a blow out round for Jimmy like the first 3 were, but still clearly his round for anyone who values punches that land flush, and punches that merely graze.

Round 6: 10 Ė 9 Ali
Ali catches Jimmy with a flush right hand as he resurfaces from a duck about a minute into the round. Jimmy is un-phased but Ali finally managed to land a clean shot. In the last minute of the round Jimmy actually employs a tight guard and rope-a-dopes Ali. The irony is beautiful. Ali tries to land a telegraphed bolo punch, but it doesnít happen. Jimmy isnít winning the round by lying on the ropes, but heís certainly making Ali expend himself to no avail. Anyways, Jimmy eventually gets off the ropes and lures Ali to fall in after throwing a 1-2 combination. He then spins Ali and puts him up against the ropes. But, once there, Jimmy only pitty pats to the body, doing no actual meaningful work. Jimmy didnít do enough this round, it was mostly a bait and fish type round for Jimmy who should have opened up more to win it. Ali wins his second round of the fight, once again primarily on activity.

Round 7: 9 Ė 10 Young
Jimmy goes back to work with his jab again this round, digging it into Aliís midsection. Ali eventually counters with a right, but Jimmy came right back to land a straight right on Ali of his own. It apparently landed pretty well because Ali did a little hip shake to acknowledge the punch. 20 seconds later, Jimmy lands the same right hand again, and Ali does another little shake. Ali tries to land up top on Jimmy while his back is up against the corner and ropes, but Jimmy either blocks it on his guard or slips the punches. Ali lands a lackluster right hand slightly behind Jimmyís left ear. Ali goes for left hooks and uppercuts, but they all miss. Jimmy sneaks in another sneaky left land, and digs Ali to the body on the inside following it. Ali later returns some lackluster body punches on his own during a clinch. Jimmy proceeds to snap Aliís head back with more jabs, while Ali misses his attempts to counter with the right over the top. Ali pushes Jimmy down again when he slips under Aliís punches. To protect himself from this foul, Jimmy cleverly leans outside of the ring ropes and forces a break. Ali continues to briefly flurry on Jimmy up against the ropes, but the shots are all blocked, and none had any mustard on them anyways. Jimmy takes this round on landing the most meaningful punches, and landing the most punches in general.

Round 8: 9 Ė 10 Young
This round starts out predictably. Ali, knowing he lost the last round, comes out to start quickly. He forces Young up against the ropes and tries to flurry. His flurries miss, and Young retorts by ripping shots to Aliís body. Ali then backs off a bit, and Jimmy lands jabs against him in the center of the ring. Ali pushes him back to the ropes again, and when Ali goes to hold, Jimmy rips him with more body shots. Jimmy goes back to work with this jab. Finding success with the jab, he decides to add a right hand that lands clean on Aliís chin. Ali is firing back, but everything he throws is a wiff or on Youngís gloves. Young is trying to get in some over hand rights of his own, but they are mostly blocked. In the last minute of the round Young spends most of it slipping punches, and lands a single 1-2 combination. Conversely, Ali lands nothing. This is another clear round for Jimmy Young.

Round 9: 9 Ė 10 Young
This round was pictorial. I loved it. Itís basically a jab festival for the first two minutes, and Ali is dancing this round. Both fighters land good jabs, but Ali is the one doing most of the missing (and throwing). Eventually, Young counters him with a straight right hand that sends Ali reeling. He moves in and works the body briefly, and then Ali goes back to dancing again. However, Ali is unable to land anything for the rest of the round, while Young gets in two more good jabs. Early in the round they both landed and the round was even, but the last minute left the biggest impression, and Jimmy clearly won it.

Round 10: 9 Ė 10 Young
This round is also pictorial. Both fighters do a good job of making the other miss this round, Ali is still dancing, but surprisingly Jimmy is actually forcing the action now. He manages to cut the ring off and does some decent body work on Ali up against the ropes. Howard Cossel delivers the following line this round, ďIíve never seen Ali miss with so many lefts in a given fight in my life.Ē Truer words were never spoken. After Ali pushes Jimmy down to the canvas in the corner again, he moves away and starts dancing again following the break from the referee. Jimmy pursues, landing a good jab, then moments later a counter straight right hand that lands beautifully. He pressures Ali back against the ropes again and sneaks in a right hand through Aliís guard, then goes back to work on the body. Ali is clinching and the ref tells him to let Jimmy go. This is the time of the fight where Ali is generally expected to make the other guy gas, but itís the exact opposite. Ali once again dances away, but his punch output is down. Few punches are being landed by either fighter, but Young is once again the one landing more. Cossel delivers another telling line this round when he says, ďAli has not really gotten a sharp blow into Young, I donít believe in this entire fight.Ē Tell it like it is Howard, tell it like it is. Jimmy finishes up the round landing some jabs to Aliís midsection. Another clear cut round for Jimmy Young in the bank. Ali has only won 2 of the first 10 rounds.

Round 11: 9 Ė 10 Young
Young starts out this round sticking Ali with the jab again, some to the body, some to the head. He even adds a straight right hand to the body to mix it up. Ali meanwhile is mostly posturing, looking for openings to make something happen. He eventually tries to sneak a right hand in over the top on Jimmy, but Jimmy is just too slick as it merely grazes him. He immediately thereafter snaps Ali back with a jab. Ali is the one pressing the action now however, but he just canít get off. Once Ali gets in close again he holds on to Jimmy, who retorts by ripping Ali to the body. The ref breaks it up, and the fight goes back to the middle of the ring. Ali later tries to sneak in a straight right hand on Jimmy. The blow is fast but you can see Jimmy still saw it coming and pulled back just enough to take all power out of the blow. However, Cosselís eyes were not astute enough to see this, leading him to believe Ali had landed his first significant blow of the fight. Jimmy came right back and landed a clean jab to Aliís head, then followed it up with another one to Aliís body. ÖAnd another one to the head, and another one. Ali does nothing but come forward, heís not being hurt but heís being hit clean. Jimmy starts putting together combinations now. He throws hooks to the body and the head. Ali again does nothing. Jimmy sneaks in an over the hand right that lands flush on Ali, and follows that up with a left hook to the body. Jimmy is toying with Ali at this point. Jimmyís success dwindles as the round nears and end, but he already did enough during the first 2/3rds to solidify him winning it. Ali was unable to make anything happen before the round ended.

Round 12: 9 Ė 9 Even
Jimmy comes out this round and peppers Ali to the head and body with straight shots from the onset. Ali however is in his tight guard and none of the shots land clean. Ali eventually opens up, but as with the rest of the fight, canít seem to find Young. Young is landing down low, up top, straight shots, over hand shots, mini hooks, thereís no punch Young canít land on Ali. By the middle of the round Aliís defense just appears to break down, and Young is just treating him like a punching bag. After landing about 15 or so blows however, Young backs off again and letís Ali come to him. Ali grazes Young with an over hand right, and Young comes right back and lands and over hand right of his own on Ali clean. Ali, now desperate, decides to pick up the pace. His combinations are still wild and mostly missing, but he manages to get in a decent left hook, then later a good right hook to Youngís jaw. He continues flurry while Young is slipping and sliding in the ring corner. Thereís 50 seconds to go and it appears Ali might actually have a chance of stealing the round. Ali is forcing the action, throwing more punches, but is largely ineffective. He is winning the last minute of this round, but not as decisively as he needed to in order to offset the first 2 minutes. Then thereís 10 seconds to go in the round, and something unexpected happens. Jimmy is pressured against the ropes and slips his head outside again to force a break. Not only does the referee call for a break, but when Young re-enters he begins to count. He gets to 3, the round ends, and he drops the count. Cossel makes absolutely no mention of count. Does it count as a standing 8 count? I honestly have no idea how to score it. But for the hell of it, letís say it is an 8 count. Iím unsure what the official rules are for this bout so I canít say that this is an allowed score, but I have Jimmy winning the round, yet with a point deduction the round becomes even. If itís a 10 point must system, then give the round to Ali 10-9. But for my score, Iím calling it 9-9. I am sure that thereís no way this could be a 10-8 round, unless of course youíre blind and thought Ali won it.

Round 13: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali comes out with a passion this round and pressures Young up against the ropes again. With Young ducking under Aliís punches however, and Aliís pushing tactics, Jimmy slips outside of the ropes again. The ref breaks it up, and doesnít decide to count this time. They get back to the center of the ring but Jimmy backs up to the ropes once more, slipping outside again, but this time obviously voluntarily and intentionally. Ali continues to beat on Jimmy while heís hanging outside of the ropes, much the way Ricky Hatton did to Floyd Mayweather Jr. The difference however was doing so cost Hatton a point, while Ali was only warned by the referee, who also warned Jimmy for leaning outside the ropes to begin with. Ali is getting rough with Jimmy this round, forcing the action, and pushing him around the ring. Thereís a good bit of tying up and elbows to boot. But Young is not deterred. He still works the body effectively, and generally frustrates Ali with his slippery movements. Both fighters start landing good punches in the latter half of the round, with Jimmy winning over the crowd by landing the more impressive blows, blows that cause Ali to sometimes hold on, and sometimes momentarily get shook. The last half of this round was dominated by Young, who comes out the clear winner overall. Sadly, Ali had landed more punches in this round against Young than he did in any other round of the entire fight.

Round 14: 9 Ė 10 Young
The body work and counters by Jimmy Young make the difference in this round. Ali has no answer for Youngís body work, but whenever Ali lands a jab to the head of Young, or a right hand, Young fires one right back that lands even better. Ali seems to have weakened this round, and Jimmy smells blood. He starts unleashing his own combinations and sends Ali reeling back into the corner. Ali is hurt for the first time of the fight, and just holds on in the corner until the ref breaks it up. Ali recovers quickly but is caught with yet another counter straight right hand that snaps his head back. Young continues to work the jab, lands some over hand rights, and pretty much just has his way with Ali in the ring. Young once again clearly won the round. I now have Young winning 11 out of 14 rounds. Ali knows heís getting beat, his corner knows it, the fans know it, so he must go for the KO in the next round right? Right? Weíll see.

Round 15: 9 Ė 10 Young
Ali early on chases Young back to a corner, but Young slides outside to avoid letting Ali maul him with his dirty tactics. This brings the fight back to the center of the ring. As per usual during the fight, Ali tries to land upstairs, Young ducks under, Ali holds on, and Young works the body during the clinch. Ali is incredibly frustrated and turns his dirty tactics up a notch. You can hear the referee telling Ali to keep it clean seconds before Ali leans on Jimmy and pushes him down to the canvas once more. 1 minute and 15 seconds to go in the round and what does Ali do? Does he go in for the kill? No. He starts to dance. He dances, misses his jabs, and gets countered by Young. In fact in the last 15 seconds of the fight Jimmy is the one coming on and landing the hard shots. Young wins the round and wins the fans. He raises his hands in victory as he goes back to his corner to await the decision. Unfortunately for Jimmy, the fix was in.

Final Score: 137 Ė 147 Young

12 rounds for Young / 2 rounds for Ali / 1 round even
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