[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by Obama

Kids today just have no concept of how flawless prime Ray was. Which is what Pac is, prime. Let's see what he can do after he's past it. Ray's resume after he was past his prime shits on Pac's prime resume.

Ray fought straight up. Pac and his crew look for every advantage or way to cripple the competition. Pac needs to fight people at their best or his victories are hollow and questionable. Someone like Paul Williams has the attitude to be considered one of the best of modern fighters.

[The Blade]

Originally Posted by blaze3050

and Hopkins in a catch weight then its a wrap

Err....repeat the question please?

[blaze3050]

Originally Posted by Obama

Kids today just have no concept of how flawless prime Ray was. Which is what Pac is, prime. Let's see what he can do after he's past it. Ray's resume after he was past his prime shits on Pac's prime resume.

Im not saying Pac is the Greatest of all time yet all im saying is that if he accomplish what i said in the other post he can be considered Greatest of all time.Remember Ray Robinson had the height and talent to accomplish what he did but look at Pac what is he like 5'6 and whooping people taller then he is come on theirs so much Pac can do.Ray Robinson had the height and talent and Pac just got the Talent.Im not argueing that Ray Robinson is the GOAT cause to me he is.Well lets put it this way if Pac beats those 3 fighters and still doesnt become the GOAT he at least has to be mention in the list of GOAT.IMO.

[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by blaze3050

Im not saying Pac is the Greatest of all time yet all im saying is that if he accomplish what i said in the other post he can be considered Greatest of all time.Remember Ray Robinson had the height and talent to accomplish what he did but look at Pac what is he like 5'6 and whooping people taller then he is come on theirs so much Pac can do.Ray Robinson had the height and talent and Pac just got the Talent.Im not argueing that Ray Robinson is the GOAT cause to me he is.Well lets put it this way if Pac beats those 3 fighters and still doesnt become the GOAT he at least has to be mention in the list of GOAT.IMO.

Pac only has to beat 3 guys to get that claim and Ray earned it over the course of a long career. Floyd Mayweather is SPOT on right about what he said in an interview about Pacquiao.

[Obama]

When Robinson was the age Pac currently is, these are the notable guys he had already beat:

Pete Lello
Sammy Angott (x3) [Lightweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Shapiro
Marty Servo (x2) [Undefeated] [Future Welterweight Champion]
Fritzie Zivic (x2) [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Berger [Former Junior Welterweight Champion]
Norman Rubio (x2)
Reuben Shank
Tony Motisi
Jake LaMotta (x5) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Izzy Janazzo (x4) [Post-Prime]
Vic Dellicurti (x2)
Al Nettlow
California Jackie Wilson (x2)
Ralph Zannelli
Henry Armstrong [Post-Prime] [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Sheik Rangel
George Martin
Tommy Bell (x2)
George Costner (x2)
Jimmy McDaniels
O'Neill Bell
Joe Curcio
Vinnie Vines
Ossie Harris
Cecil Hudson I
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Billy Nixon
Chuck Taylor
Henry Brimm
Bernard Docusen
Kid Gavilan (x2) [Future Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Lee (x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Steve Belloise
Al Mobley
Aaron Wade [Over the Hill]
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Charley Fusari
Jose Basora
Joe Rindone (x2)
Bobo Olson (x4) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Dykes
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Holley Mims [Pre-Prime]
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]

----------------

Now let's look at Pac's notable victories:

Chatchai Sasakul (WBC FlyW Champion)
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba (IBF SBW Champion)
Jorge Eliecer Julio <Post-Prime>
Marco Antonio Barrera [x2] (future HOFer) <Late Prime in 1st , Over the hill in 2nd>
Hector Velazquez
Erik Morales [x2] (future HOFer) <Over the hill in both, but washed up in 2nd>
Oscar Larios
Jorge Solis <Undefeated>
Juan Manuel Marquez (WBC SFeaW Champion, future HOFer)
David Diaz (WBC LW Champion)
Oscar De La Hoya (future HOFer) <Over the hill & Massively Underweight>
Ricky Hatton (Future HOFer) <Ring Magazine JWW Champion> <Post-Prime>

--------------

A level wins bolded. Robinson fought fighters of all styles. Pac has never met a slick fighter, a defensively gifted fighter, or a fast handed fighter in his life. Robinson also fought guys where they were comfortable weighing, sometimes giving up 15+ lbs in the ring. Manny has never been outweighed by more than 5 lbs in the ring.

[Bigblock]

Ray fought in 200 fights, Pacquiao hasn't and probably never will fight even half that number.

[Violent Demise]

Originally Posted by R_9-Ronaldo

Lengthy introductions

Round 1: Pacqaio and Cotto both come out with very high guards and both throwing jabs, Pacquaio uses his feet alot this round to see what Cotto is all about and moves towards Cottos right hand like he did Hatton to test it out, No meaningful blows in this round just a warm up for both.

(interval) Roach says Cotto is slower than they initially thought and that Pacquaio can take him out because he's very one handed

Round 2,3,4,5(similar): Pacquaio moving towards Cottos right hand forcing Cotto to really extend his left hooks and jabs giving Pacquaio a chance to move in behind Cottos left hook(like he did with Oscar) and really put the hurt on his, Pacquaio starting to wear Cotto down with straight accurate punches constantly landing flush on cottos face, Cotto beginning to look beaten up

Round 6: Pacqauio turns it on Cotto and really starts to go war, starts beating him to the head and body and gets Cotto on the ropes, Cotto tries to box his way out but Pacquaio is too damn fast, Cotto gets beaten against the ropes for about half a minute and Pacquaio lets him back into the center of the ring, Cotto(looking very slow, sluggish, and beaten up at this point) throws some slow punches that Pacquaio times and knocks with a punch not too dis-similar from the one he knocked Hatton out with.

Pacquaio will be hearlded as the second coming of Sugar Ray Robinson afterwards even though in my opinion this was a styles clash and that the fight would be totally different had he fought either one of Floyd Mayweather or Shane mosley, or even Juan Manuel Marquez

Round 1: Pacquaio and Cotto both come out with very high guards. Pacquaio lands the first meaningful punch of the fight. A quick left. Thinking Cotto is as slow as Hatton and as shot as De La Hoya, Pacquaio goes for the straight left again. Cotto is waiting for it. He lands a right flush on Pacquiao's jaw. Pacquiao goes down and does not get up.

[Hendrix]

Pac is the best momentarely,no doubt about it.Anyway,if you study all Cotto fights you will see that every so called "better" boxer has been beaten.The power of cotto is outstanding,ask clottey.
So i think Cotto wins by ko,I am profoundly convinced

[blaze3050]

Originally Posted by Bigblock

Pac only has to beat 3 guys to get that claim and Ray earned it over the course of a long career. Floyd Mayweather is SPOT on right about what he said in an interview about Pacquiao.

look i admit i over did it but im just saying Pac at least if he beat those 3 guys haves to be considered 1 of the GOAT at least.Dnt you agree.

Originally Posted by Obama

When Robinson was the age Pac currently is, these are the notable guys he had already beat:

Pete Lello
Sammy Angott (x3) [Lightweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Shapiro
Marty Servo (x2) [Undefeated] [Future Welterweight Champion]
Fritzie Zivic (x2) [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Berger [Former Junior Welterweight Champion]
Norman Rubio (x2)
Reuben Shank
Tony Motisi
Jake LaMotta (x5) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Izzy Janazzo (x4) [Post-Prime]
Vic Dellicurti (x2)
Al Nettlow
California Jackie Wilson (x2)
Ralph Zannelli
Henry Armstrong [Post-Prime] [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Sheik Rangel
George Martin
Tommy Bell (x2)
George Costner (x2)
Jimmy McDaniels
O'Neill Bell
Joe Curcio
Vinnie Vines
Ossie Harris
Cecil Hudson I
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Billy Nixon
Chuck Taylor
Henry Brimm
Bernard Docusen
Kid Gavilan (x2) [Future Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Lee (x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Steve Belloise
Al Mobley
Aaron Wade [Over the Hill]
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Charley Fusari
Jose Basora
Joe Rindone (x2)
Bobo Olson (x4) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Dykes
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Holley Mims [Pre-Prime]
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]

----------------

Now let's look at Pac's notable victories:

Chatchai Sasakul (WBC FlyW Champion)
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba (IBF SBW Champion)
Jorge Eliecer Julio <Post-Prime>
Marco Antonio Barrera [x2] (future HOFer) <Late Prime in 1st , Over the hill in 2nd>
Hector Velazquez
Erik Morales [x2] (future HOFer) <Over the hill in both, but washed up in 2nd>
Oscar Larios
Jorge Solis <Undefeated>
Juan Manuel Marquez (WBC SFeaW Champion, future HOFer)
David Diaz (WBC LW Champion)
Oscar De La Hoya (future HOFer) <Over the hill & Massively Underweight>
Ricky Hatton (Future HOFer) <Ring Magazine JWW Champion> <Post-Prime>

--------------

A level wins bolded. Robinson fought fighters of all styles. Pac has never met a slick fighter, a defensively gifted fighter, or a fast handed fighter in his life. Robinson also fought guys where they were comfortable weighing, sometimes giving up 15+ lbs in the ring. Manny has never been outweighed by more than 5 lbs in the ring.

Your right about Ray Robinson my apologies but in a certain way you are making Pacs wins like he really didnt beat anybody thats messed up to me he beat Morales fair and square the thing is that people say he was over the hill and he was only 30 years old i personally think Pac won because he was improving on certain things same goes with Barrera with the exception of the second fight and for De la hoya i think they was both in disadvantage because P Pac went up in weight from 135lb to 147lb and Pac never fought at that weight until he fought D De la hoya .

Originally Posted by Bigblock

Ray fought in 200 fights, Pacquiao hasn't and probably never will fight even half that number.

Your right Pac will never fight that many fights.

[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by blaze3050

look i admit i over did it but im just saying Pac at least if he beat those 3 guys haves to be considered 1 of the GOAT at least.Dnt you agree.

I think if he beats Mosley, Mayweather, and Williams at 147 then there might be a case for it. I think the GOAT label is thrown around a bit too much now days.