[Rowan]

If he were to say, beat Kessler in a rematch, beat Bute in a rematch, beat Adonis Stevenson in a defence, then beat Andre Direll clearly in a rematch and retired where would you guys rate him among all time super middles?

[BALISTIK]

It's a young division but he'd be second greatest super middleweight after Ward.

[beatdown89]

Your credibility is at an all time low if you call Ward the greatest SMW ever with his only truly credible victories being Froch and Kessler. I say, if Froch beats Kessler in a rematch he will already be one of the top 3 SMW of all time. I know, I know, Ward beat him, but fighters are rated based on resumes not head to heads.

[BALISTIK]

Originally Posted by beatdown89

Your credibility is at an all time low if you call Ward the greatest SMW ever with his only truly credible victories being Froch and Kessler. I say, if Froch beats Kessler in a rematch he will already be one of the top 3 SMW of all time. I know, I know, Ward beat him, but fighters are rated based on resumes not head to heads.

That's right, it doesn't compare to Calzaghe's best wins at the weight : Kessler, Lacy and washed up Eubank. Along with many defenses against bums.

As of right now, Ward is slightly ahead of Calzaghe but it's debatable. After the Dawson fight he'll be clearly ahead.

[beatdown89]

Originally Posted by BALISTIK

That's right, it doesn't compare to Calzaghe's best wins at the weight : Kessler, Lacy and washed up Eubank. Along with many defenses against bums.

As of right now, Ward is slightly ahead of Calzaghe but it's debatable. After the Dawson fight he'll be clearly ahead.

Silly, silly, silly, Calzaghe beat a prime Kessler and Lacy, he beat Hopkins hwo would later go onto to school guys some 10-15 years younger than himself. He beat a much better version of Bika and guys like Brewer, Mitchell and Woodhall were all pretty good defences. The fact that he was an undefeated champion for the vast majority of his career eclipses all of what Ward has done to this point.

If Ward had moved up to LHW to fight Dawson and Pascal, win, then I would rate him higher than Joe. The fact that Ward is making a LHW come down 7lbs....I've said this for a while, it's not a good fight, might not even be worth watching. Ward wins easy. It gains him nothing.

[Zerouali lives]

I can't see Froch beating Dirrell in the US unless Dirrell starts to gas like he did against Abraham.

I think Froch would avoid a fight like that anyway unless Dirrell became a mandatory

[Rhyme 4 Rhyme]

Originally Posted by beatdown89

Silly, silly, silly, Calzaghe beat a prime Kessler and Lacy, he beat Hopkins hwo would later go onto to school guys some 10-15 years younger than himself. He beat a much better version of Bika and guys like Brewer, Mitchell and Woodhall were all pretty good defences. The fact that he was an undefeated champion for the vast majority of his career eclipses all of what Ward has done to this point.

If Ward had moved up to LHW to fight Dawson and Pascal, win, then I would rate him higher than Joe. The fact that Ward is making a LHW come down 7lbs....I've said this for a while, it's not a good fight, might not even be worth watching. Ward wins easy. It gains him nothing.

I think Ballistik was strictly looking at Calzaghe's reign at SMW. Obviously the Hopkins fight strengthens his resume enormously, but looking at strictly SMW, Ward and Calzaghe are certainly comparable. Hopefully Dawson ends this bullshit in Oakland though in September.

[BALISTIK]

Originally Posted by beatdown89

Silly, silly, silly, Calzaghe beat a prime Kessler and Lacy, he beat Hopkins hwo would later go onto to school guys some 10-15 years younger than himself. He beat a much better version of Bika and guys like Brewer, Mitchell and Woodhall were all pretty good defences. The fact that he was an undefeated champion for the vast majority of his career eclipses all of what Ward has done to this point.

If Ward had moved up to LHW to fight Dawson and Pascal, win, then I would rate him higher than Joe. The fact that Ward is making a LHW come down 7lbs....I've said this for a while, it's not a good fight, might not even be worth watching. Ward wins easy. It gains him nothing.

Why are you mentioning Hopkins? We're discussing achievements at 168.

The fact that Calzaghe was an undefeated champion with many defenses doesn't mean shiit, does Sven Ottke's career eclipse Ward? It took Calzaghe 10 freaking years to unify titles but it took Ward only 2 years.

Dawson going down to 68 will taint the victory but it will still be a good win for Ward. Dawson is the ring magazine LHW champion, even if he's weight drained he will still be a decent addition to Ward's resume.

Originally Posted by Rhyme 4 Rhyme

I think Ballistik was strictly looking at Calzaghe's reign at SMW. Obviously the Hopkins fight strengthens his resume enormously, but looking at strictly SMW, Ward and Calzaghe are certainly comparable. Hopefully Dawson ends this bullshit in Oakland though in September.

Dude can't even read properly, we're talking about super middleweight resumes and he pulls Hopkins out his ass.

[Megarodon]

if Froch retires right now he has a very secure legacy and one of the greatest SMW ever.
After that, he'd be behind Ward depending on what Ward accomplishes too.

[beatdown89]

Originally Posted by Rhyme 4 Rhyme

I think Ballistik was strictly looking at Calzaghe's reign at SMW. Obviously the Hopkins fight strengthens his resume enormously, but looking at strictly SMW, Ward and Calzaghe are certainly comparable. Hopefully Dawson ends this bullshit in Oakland though in September.

even at SMW, the fact that Calzghe maintained a title reign for 10 years against many above average fighters is enough. Ward has only two top level names on his resume and people are talking about him as a great. Bika, Green, Pudwill, Miranda....lol come on, half those guys were past their best. Other fighters have done better against almost all those names anyway. Ward is good but not even on Joe's level.