[ElMillionario]

It will be interesting to see if he (Marquez) continues his relationship with Heredia, and if there is a 5th fight, it will be really interesting to see if one of the camps insist on REAL PEP testing.

Victor Conte called the Nevada boxing PEP test an "IQ" test; meaning, if you know what you are doing, then you will pass it.

If Marquez insist on continuing his relationship with Heredia and continues to do steroids, then his only possible fight is with Manny.

If Marquez is going to stop this PEP silliness, he could get rematch with Floyd? But Floyd insist on blood testing, which means that Marquez will look as horrible as he did in 2009 (when Marquez couldn't do steroids and looked like a 36 year fighter, not the bodybuilder you see today).

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by ElMillionario

It will be interesting to see if he (Marquez) continues his relationship with Heredia, and if there is a 5th fight, it will be really interesting to see if one of the camps insist on REAL PEP testing.

Victor Conte called the Nevada boxing PEP test an "IQ" test; meaning, if you know what you are doing, then you will pass it.

If Marquez insist on continuing his relationship with Heredia and continues to do steroids, then his only possible fight is with Manny.

If Marquez is going to stop this PEP silliness, he could get rematch with Floyd? But Floyd insist on blood testing, which means that Marquez will look as horrible as he did in 2009 (when Marquez couldn't do steroids and looked like a 36 year fighter, not the bodybuilder you see today).

I agree that it's suspicious with the way Marquez looked, also keep in mind that he did a solid year and a half straight of a working out designed to change his body. It was the first time he ever did that kind of training. As a fighter he actually looked worse than he did in even the 3rd Pac fight. His punches were slower, his reflexes were slower, his footwork was slower, and his combination speed was slower. The only real difference between this Marquez and the other versions Pac fought was that this Marquez had declined more, but he was looking for a knockout and was throwing accordingly. In the past Marquez looked to outbox Pac (and did), but didn't really sit on his punches like he did in the 4th fight.

It was also the most reckless Pac ever fought Marquez since early in their first fight, and Marquez was throwing with more conviction than ever. In hindsight, a KO'd Pac was bound to happen given the way he was rushing in face first into Marquez's biggest punches.

[Speedkills]

Larry Merchant in his last HBO broadcast brought up the very fact that Marquez has been working with a known PED coach. I agree about the NAC testing- have they ever found anybody positive for anything other than drugs of abuse such as cocaine and weed? Do they even test for anabolic steroids, HGH, EPO and such?

Marquez did look suspiciously big and strong compared to previous versions. He also took Pac's solid shots much better than in the past. But I do agree with Bill that his speed, reflexes, and combinations were a touch lesser than in past fights.

[ElMillionario]

Exactly on point.

some of Marquez's skills have deminished, but his power and muscle mass is much higher because of the obvious use of PEDs.

I've worked as a personal trainer. I have friends that are some of the highest paid PT in South Florida. I've been around high performance atheletes most of my life. I've some rise, and I've seen them all lose it in their 30's. Noone, and I mean noone, changes as much as Marquez changed in year; specially at the age of 39. It just doesn't happen.

What Marquez did is no different than what Margarito did against Cotto. Boxing is not the 100-yard-dash, its a combat sport where the opponents are trying to concuss the opponent. Loading up your gloves = taking steroids.

Marquez cheated, just like Margarito did. We saw how Margarito looked against Cotto when he couldn't cheat, and we know how Marquez looked in 36 rounds against Paquiao (Marquez never even knocked Pac down in 36 rds!! and now he knocks him down twice!!!!??) - but when those guys cheat, they (Marquez & Margarito) looked very powerful and like completely different boxers.

Bottom line is, if Marquez can't fight Pac, and instead pursuits a rematch with Floyd; Marquez will once again look like sh$t bc to fight Floyd you have to take blood test. JMM is a cheater and we all know it.

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by ElMillionario

Exactly on point.

some of Marquez's skills have deminished, but his power and muscle mass is much higher because of the obvious use of PEDs.

I've worked as a personal trainer. I have friends that are some of the highest paid PT in South Florida. I've been around high performance atheletes most of my life. I've some rise, and I've seen them all lose it in their 30's. Noone, and I mean noone, changes as much as Marquez changed in year; specially at the age of 39. It just doesn't happen.

What Marquez did is no different than what Margarito did against Cotto. Boxing is not the 100-yard-dash, its a combat sport where the opponents are trying to concuss the opponent. Loading up your gloves = taking steroids.

Marquez cheated, just like Margarito did. We saw how Margarito looked against Cotto when he couldn't cheat, and we know how Marquez looked in 36 rounds against Paquiao (Marquez never even knocked Pac down in 36 rds!! and now he knocks him down twice!!!!??) - but when those guys cheat, they (Marquez & Margarito) looked very powerful and like completely different boxers.

Bottom line is, if Marquez can't fight Pac, and instead pursuits a rematch with Floyd; Marquez will once again look like sh$t bc to fight Floyd you have to take blood test. JMM is a cheater and we all know it.

He doesn't punch any harder than he did before. This was the first fight where he was looking for a KO, it was the first fight where he was continuously looking for 1 big knockout shot, and it was the first fight where Pac maintained entirely reckless aggression throughout.

People act as if Marquez wasn't a hard puncher prior to this fight. He was always a hard puncher who hurt people when he threw with conviction and concentrated on getting a knockout. Pac played right into his hands by consistently lunging at him and leading with his face. Marquez was launching his own bombs and the knockout blow came from right field and landed home as Pac was lunging into the shot, increasing the power of the punch exponentially.

Marquez didn't really put on more muscle, he became more cut. He's no bigger for this fight than he was for the 3rd Pac fight, or than he was against Mayweather. He's become more cut though, which is from the results of an insensive workout designed to do just that, and doing it for over a year straight.

[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by ElMillionario

Exactly on point.

some of Marquez's skills have deminished, but his power and muscle mass is much higher because of the obvious use of PEDs.

I've worked as a personal trainer. I have friends that are some of the highest paid PT in South Florida. I've been around high performance atheletes most of my life. I've some rise, and I've seen them all lose it in their 30's. Noone, and I mean noone, changes as much as Marquez changed in year; specially at the age of 39. It just doesn't happen.

What Marquez did is no different than what Margarito did against Cotto. Boxing is not the 100-yard-dash, its a combat sport where the opponents are trying to concuss the opponent. Loading up your gloves = taking steroids.

Marquez cheated, just like Margarito did. We saw how Margarito looked against Cotto when he couldn't cheat, and we know how Marquez looked in 36 rounds against Paquiao (Marquez never even knocked Pac down in 36 rds!! and now he knocks him down twice!!!!??) - but when those guys cheat, they (Marquez & Margarito) looked very powerful and like completely different boxers.

Bottom line is, if Marquez can't fight Pac, and instead pursuits a rematch with Floyd; Marquez will once again look like sh$t bc to fight Floyd you have to take blood test. JMM is a cheater and we all know it.

JMM fought fire with fire.

[Speedkills]

More cut (at same weight) = More muscle with less fat = Higher lean body mass percentage = He developed bigger muscles and reduced body fat.

[jaw2929]

I agree with those who said Marquez is at the point where he can command the most money in his career. If I'm him? I'm going for whatever fight brings me the most $$$, even if it's a 5th fight vs. Pacquiao.

[Speedkills]

Marquez has finally arrived at a point in his career where he can call the shots and make a great deal of money for himself and his family's future.

He still has a lot to contribute to boxing, so it would be foolish to retire now- assuming he still has the drive.

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by Speedkills

Marquez has finally arrived at a point in his career where he can call the shots and make a great deal of money for himself and his family's future.

He still has a lot to contribute to boxing, so it would be foolish to retire now- assuming he still has the drive.

He might not have the drive anymore. He spent the last 8 years of his career being mentioned alongside Manny Pacquiao and usually something along the lines of "He beat Pacquiao but didn't ge the decision at least twice" were said too, which really had to piss him off. Being a fighter, it must've killed him that he did so well vs Pac every single time but never got the decision and just increased his desire to perform well to get another Pac fight to officially get the W against him. Being that he brutally KO'd Pac and finally got the W that he deserved for so many years, he may no longer have the drive to push himself as hard as he used to.