I think what they're saying is Calzaghe doesn't deserve his #2 spot (or any place on the list). Deep down I know how they really feel though. They tend to talk about him more than their idols.
Did I say he didn't deserve a spot on the list? If you know how I really feel then why would you assume something so far from the truth? He doesn't deserve the #2 spot...but he's there by default. He's not a dangerous #2 fighter...a dirt old RJ and B-Hop could beat him, Dawson, Pav, and I'd give Glen a good chance of beating him (especially at this stage of Cal's career). He's the #2 fighter in the world by default...his resume in no way shows him in being the #2 fighter in the world other than that false 0. Because if he would have fought RJ or B-Hop earlier in his career...there would be a 1 there...
__________________ Calzaghe: ROY...you hit so hard!
Roy Jones Jr: (smiles) I know...I just want to thank my hands...now just think if the rest of me weren't shot...
But when Hopkins was #1 you'd no problems with some of his best wins being over Joppy, Johnson (who was actually wasn't as good then as he is now), and Trinidad (fighting 2 weightclasses above his best weight)?
I've no problem with him being P4P back then, but you're being naieve or just plain stupid to think Calzaghe doesn't deserve his spot now.
Well it seems like you don't have any logic on why he should be #2. Cal's best fights were against Kessler, Lacy and a 43 year old Hopkins....only one out of the 3 was on the P4P list and he was a 43 YEAR OLD MAN. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be on the P4P list, but by only fighting one GREAT in his last 5 five fights (including Peter Manfredo Jr, Sakio Bika) and a good European fighter in Kessler (who has yet to prove himself against a REAL champ) and a then hot fighter in Lacy (had only 21 fights back then and took the IBF title from SYD VANDERPOOL) you're the one that's too naive or stupid in saying that Calzaghe deserves the #2 spot. He has yet to prove himself against a legit fighter at least near his prime, because there's no bravery in fighting 2 legends years past their primes. And you're mos def kidding yourself in comparing Hopkins road to being the P4P king to Cal's Hopkins has been placed on the list because he has always fought the best.
Glen Johnson at that time was still a feared fighter who no one wanted to challenge, on top of that Hopkins was the first and only person to stop him. Joppy before the Hopkins fight defeated at the time the undefeated Howard Eastman, and was the WBA champ (since Hopkins was declared "Super Champ"). And Tito was still fighting well in the MW div, after all he did KO Joppy for the WBA title. Hopkins couldn't even drop Joppy, and Tito dropped him twice and ended up stopping the guy...so don't give me that "over his weight class" garbage excuse. And Tito was the 2-1 favorite in the fight as well. So it's quite simple: Hopkins won the MW unification tournament, defeated above average champs in Holmes, Joppy, Trinidad, Echols, and Allen. The DLH defeat and RJs KO loss was the reason why Hopkins was shoved in the #1 spot. While Cal beat Kessler a man with skill and little heart (also ran from Miranda), Lacy (hyped and inexperienced champ who has yet to defeat a legit contender), Bika, Manfredo Jr., and a bunch of other unproven European fighters. So there's no comparison, if Cal had chosen to fight Pavlik instead of fighting a 40 year old RJ and retire then maybe I could give him some props. But when I see a 43 yr old man that is willing to fight a man that the "#2 P4P" man avoids (and makes lies and excuses about not fighting him)...well that kind of tells me something.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulster86
Pavlik should take this one by decision. I'm not ruling out a KO in the later rounds when the pressure starts to take it's toll on Bernard.
Last edited by The Executioner : 08-28-2008 at 06:11 PM.
Did I say he didn't deserve a spot on the list? If you know how I really feel then why would you assume something so far from the truth? He doesn't deserve the #2 spot...but he's there by default. He's not a dangerous #2 fighter...a dirt old RJ and B-Hop could beat him, Dawson, Pav, and I'd give Glen a good chance of beating him (especially at this stage of Cal's career). He's the #2 fighter in the world by default...his resume in no way shows him in being the #2 fighter in the world other than that false 0. Because if he would have fought RJ or B-Hop earlier in his career...there would be a 1 there...
Yep, that's the same way I feel
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulster86
Pavlik should take this one by decision. I'm not ruling out a KO in the later rounds when the pressure starts to take it's toll on Bernard.
The number of title defenses Calzaghe had is a great one. I also think the fact he beat Lacy, kessler and Hopkins is a good one. Lacy wasn't a bad fighter and he wasn't exposed, Joe Calzaghe flat out ruined Jeff Lacy. The end. He didn't even have to knock him out to ruin him either. He jsut showed Lacy that he was a little boy and when he faced a man he got his ass spanked. Calzaghe is the second best fighter in the world until someone dethrones him. The only guy in and around his weight class that can do it is Kelly Pavlik.
Title defenses against who?
Lacy was never P4P and neither was Kessler. They were the best in his division yes but that divsion is garbage. I will say this until the world ends...Lacy is a one-dimensional press forward fighter with power. He's slow and Cal has quick hands and agile feet...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the outcome of that fight 9 times out of 10. Kessler is a good SMW fighter who's also preyed on SMW bums...so I can only say that he's a great yet unproven talent. Besides...I don't see the hunger in his eyes to be a great boxer.
Cal looked terrible, awful, putrid against B-hop. And we can't forget to say that he's 43 years of age and he gave Cal the hardest fight of his career. So what would a prime B-Hop do to Cal? hmmmmmm I think I know.
I agree, Cal is ranked the #2 fighter in the world and he'll stay there until someone beats him. If he doesn't retire soon, I guarantee he loses in his next 3 fights...there aren't any bums in the LHW division like there were in the SMW so Cal can't hide now...he barely "beat" B-Hop, he's fighting RJ now...there's also Tarver (Cal should beat him), Glen Johnson (tough fight), Chad Dawson (tough fight), Tavoris Cloud (easy win...might beat up on him like lacy but cloud is too green), and Pavlik (most likely an L). Cal doesn't want to risk that 0 for another fight, and that is why he's retiring...the game is getting too hard so why not leave while the getting is good right? I mean...there aren't that many fighters around that would add to his legacy...or maybe their are too many fighters that will ruin his legacy...
__________________ Calzaghe: ROY...you hit so hard!
Roy Jones Jr: (smiles) I know...I just want to thank my hands...now just think if the rest of me weren't shot...
Well it seems like you don't have any logic on why he should be #2. Cal's best fights were against Kessler, Lacy and a 43 year old Hopkins....only one out of the 3 was on the P4P list and he was a 43 YEAR OLD MAN. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be on the P4P list, but by only fighting one GREAT in his last 5 five fights (including Peter Manfredo Jr, Sakio Bika) and a good European fighter in Kessler (who has yet to prove himself against a REAL champ) and a then hot fighter in Lacy (had only 21 fights back then and took the IBF title from SYD VANDERPOOL) you're the one that's too naive or stupid in saying that Calzaghe deserves the #2 spot. He has yet to prove himself against a legit fighter at least near his prime, because there's no bravery in fighting 2 legends years past their primes. And you're mos def kidding yourself in comparing Hopkins road to being the P4P king to Cal's Hopkins has been placed on the list because he has always fought the best.
Glen Johnson at that time was still a feared fighter who no one wanted to challenge, on top of that Hopkins was the first and only person to stop him. Joppy before the Hopkins fight defeated at the time the undefeated Howard Eastman, and was the WBA champ (since Hopkins was declared "Super Champ"). And Tito's was still fighting well in the MW div, after all he did KO Joppy for the WBA title. Hopkins couldn't even drop Joppy, and Tito dropped him twice and ended up stopping the guy...so don't give me that "over his weight class" garbage excuse. And Tito was the 2-1 favorite in the fight. So it's quite simple: Hopkins won the MW unification tournament, defeated above average champs in Holmes, Joppy, Trinidad, Echols, and Allen. The DLH defeat and RJs KO loss was the reason why Hopkins was shoved in the #1 spot. While Cal beat Kessler a man with skill and little heart (also ran from Miranda), Lacy (hyped and inexperienced champ who has yet to defeat a legit contender), Bika, Manfredo Jr., and a bunch of other unproven European fighters. So there's no comparison, if Cal had chosen to fight Pavlik instead of fighting a 40 year old RJ and retire then maybe I could give him some props. But when I see a 43 yr old man that is willing to fight a man that the "#2 P4P" man avoids (and makes lies and excuses about not fighting him)...well that kind of tells me something.
It tells you that Cal isn't hungry...he's fat on bums and too full for the prime rib....so now he's saying CHECK PLEASE
__________________ Calzaghe: ROY...you hit so hard!
Roy Jones Jr: (smiles) I know...I just want to thank my hands...now just think if the rest of me weren't shot...
The number of title defenses Calzaghe had is a great one. I also think the fact he beat Lacy, kessler and Hopkins is a good one. Lacy wasn't a bad fighter and he wasn't exposed, Joe Calzaghe flat out ruined Jeff Lacy. The end. He didn't even have to knock him out to ruin him either. He jsut showed Lacy that he was a little boy and when he faced a man he got his ass spanked. Calzaghe is the second best fighter in the world until someone dethrones him. The only guy in and around his weight class that can do it is Kelly Pavlik.
Out of all of those title defenses, only 4 of them were against legit fighters, so that's not a good reason why he should be on the P4P list. Darius Mich had many title defenses as well and he never touched the P4P list.
Lacy was never a legit P4P fighter and neither was Kessler, so that leaves only Hopkins as the ONLY top P4P fighter that Cal has EVER fought.
I feel Pavlik should be ranked higher than Cal just for the fact that he has fought better competition than Cal and he's still calling out the best. Pavlik's resume could be better, but he's young and he never had the opportunity to fight the best until now. Cal had almost 5-10 years to fight the best but for his love of money he chose to fight the lower competition.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulster86
Pavlik should take this one by decision. I'm not ruling out a KO in the later rounds when the pressure starts to take it's toll on Bernard.
Did I say he didn't deserve a spot on the list? If you know how I really feel then why would you assume something so far from the truth? He doesn't deserve the #2 spot...but he's there by default. He's not a dangerous #2 fighter...a dirt old RJ and B-Hop could beat him, Dawson, Pav, and I'd give Glen a good chance of beating him (especially at this stage of Cal's career). He's the #2 fighter in the world by default...his resume in no way shows him in being the #2 fighter in the world other than that false 0. Because if he would have fought RJ or B-Hop earlier in his career...there would be a 1 there...
You've said that Calzaghe is just a good fighter, are you trying to tell me that you think the rest of the list are all just good fighters, nothing more? As usual you're contradicting yourself. All this crying about Calzaghe's place on the list is pathetic, for someone who doesn't like him you seem to invest alot of your time on him. How is he not a dangerous fighter when he's the #1 ranked fighter in two weight classes?
Please don't respond to this with you're predictible bullshitt. If you want to talk about Calzaghe that bad go to his forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Executioner
Well it seems like you don't have any logic on why he should be #2. Cal's best fights were against Kessler, Lacy and a 43 year old Hopkins....only one out of the 3 was on the P4P list and he was a 43 YEAR OLD MAN. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be on the P4P list, but by only fighting one GREAT in his last 5 five fights (including Peter Manfredo Jr, Sakio Bika) and a good European fighter in Kessler (who has yet to prove himself against a REAL champ) and a then hot fighter in Lacy (had only 21 fights back then and took the IBF title from SYD VANDERPOOL) you're the one that's too naive or stupid in saying that Calzaghe deserves the #2 spot. He has yet to prove himself against a legit fighter at least near his prime, because there's no bravery in fighting 2 legends years past their primes. And you're mos def kidding yourself in comparing Hopkins road to being the P4P king to Cal's Hopkins has been placed on the list because he has always fought the best.
Glen Johnson at that time was still a feared fighter who no one wanted to challenge, on top of that Hopkins was the first and only person to stop him. Joppy before the Hopkins fight defeated at the time the undefeated Howard Eastman, and was the WBA champ (since Hopkins was declared "Super Champ"). And Tito was still fighting well in the MW div, after all he did KO Joppy for the WBA title. Hopkins couldn't even drop Joppy, and Tito dropped him twice and ended up stopping the guy...so don't give me that "over his weight class" garbage excuse. And Tito was the 2-1 favorite in the fight as well. So
Does RJ have a chance against Calzaghe?
Hopkins has been placed on the list because he has always fought the best.
I think I know. 
