[bill1234]

I'm sure most of you are familiar with or have at least heard about the 17 year old Trayvon Martin being killed by George Zimmerman and the mass of controversy surrounding it.

I'm not really sure what to think of it whether or not Zimmerman was in the right to shoot Trayvon.

I know last week a video came out and Zimmerman appeared to be fine, despite claiming to be attacked, yet the video was pretty grainy and not very good to judge any actual injuries.

A tape of screaming in the background has been talked about and debated who's been doing the screaming.

Right away I'm going to get some gripes about the whole thing out of the way regarding the piss poor reporting of this entire event with both the media and the police.

Gripes with the media:

They keep showing Trayvon when he was like 12 and extremely innocent looking, not the 17 year old, 6'2 Trayvon who has been getting into trouble in the past year or so.

They show this:




Instead of this:





They keep showing Zimmerman's photo where he looks like an angry criminal, not the smiling picture that is much more recent.

They show this:


Instead of this:


I guess the clear agenda by the media is what my gripe is. In my opinion they should present the most recent pictures of the two people involved.

My other gripe is with the police. They really did a terrible job with this. Had they done a better job, there wouldn't be this massive controversy and it'd be much more clear cut on what happened.

Just a brief summary of what I think most likely happened is this:

Zimmerman saw someone walking around at night and became extremely suspicious due to multiple break ins occuring in that neighborhood. Zimmerman called the police and forwhatever reason, ignored what he was told and pursued Trayvon, who had been walking around with his skittles and ice tea. Trayvon likely saw Zimmerman was following him and felt threatened. I am unsure of whether or not Zimmerman or Trayvon had a confrontation or not, however if they did, it was most likely not a friendly one.

Zimmerman decided to temporarily stop his pursuit of Trayvon and return to his vehicle. Trayvon may have thought Zimmerman was going to get a weapon and was probably already heated over being followed. He then attacked Zimmerman and the two struggled with Trayvon getting the better of Zimmerman, who then shot and killed Trayvon.

Do I think Zimmerman is a racist? No. He was just looking to get some attention for himself by catching what he hoped was going to be a would be robber and things went very, very wrong. Do I think he was in the wrong? To an extent. He most definitely should have done as instructed and not followed Trayvon. At the same time I do believe Trayvon did indeed attack Zimmerman, which would make him in the wrong aswell. If Trayvon was really bashing Zimmerman's head against the ground as Zimmerman has stated, then I can't say I condemn Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon.

A more recent and enhanced video of Zimmerman 4 hours after the incident took place is what leads me to believe that Trayvon and Zimmerman did indeed have an altercation, as injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head are shown.

Trayvon Martin Case: Enhanced Police Video Shows Injuries On George Zimmerman's Head

What are your opinions on this case?

[BigDigga]

you must've missed my "**** people love to avoid" thread........check it out

to me everything hinges around the dispatcher telling him not to pursue when he heard him get out of his car then start to chase him and the other thing is the phone call martin was on with his girlfriend as the scuffle started.

the police video showing him with no injuries is negllgable imo being it's too grainy.

is zimmerman racist? i have to say yes listening to the 911 call. racial profiling is common and even non-racists do this, but what zimmerman uttered under his breath while chasing martin sounded like a racial remark. zimmerman's people are shamelessly trying to say what was said could've been anything when it can really be one of 2 things

[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by BigDigga

is zimmerman racist? i have to say yes listening to the 911 call. racial profiling is common and even non-racists do this, but what zimmerman uttered under his breath while chasing martin sounded like a racial remark. zimmerman's people are shamelessly trying to say what was said could've been anything when it can really be one of 2 things

If the summary above is accurate theres a few mistakes by both men here.

Depending on where this took place most concealed carry permits come with the understanding that you don't go looking for trouble. This means not participating in verbal or physical confrontations. However some states allow you to use force to protect property so if that kid was doing something then zimmerman wasn't out of place chasing him off. Martin's mistake was comming back looking for fight if zimmerman did indeed retreat to his vehicle. If Martin attacked him at his car then zimmerman is an armed citizen exercising his right to self defense.

As far as being a racist its irrelevant. You can't attack someone for calling you names anywhere past the third grade. There was probably racial remarks tossed out by both sides here.

[carob]

I'm waiting for Trayvon's birthday to be declared a national holiday.

Or maybe the company that makes Tylenol can change that name to Trayvon.

The media is acting as if NOBODY else was the victim of a bias attack the same day. Or week. Or even month.

Actually you could open up any local newspaper and read some hideous, gut-wrenching cases of clear-cut racial or sexual bias attacks. Only nobody knows about it.

Because the two revved-up Revs, Sharpie Sharpton and Jesse "Don't Steal My Thunder" Jackson had to go down and lend their famous mugs to all of this.

I can't begin to guess what happened. You're dealing with two A'holes, really...a hoodie-wearing thuglet who has been in trouble, and some amateur playing cop.

What's today's news? Yet another idiot shooting up a bunch of students. Maybe the Revs should go out to the campus and say something. Maybe Tray's pals would like to march in support of gun control and against a gun that killed a whole bunch of completely innocent kids? Nah, what's the fun in THAT, when you can go wear hoodies and make things worse, and potentially start a riot like the one that nearly took Reginald Denny's face off his head.

And yeah, they don't run any nasty pix of Trayvon, but the media is scared to do that, almost as scared as Zimmy is at this moment. It's a tragic situation but it's been overplayed. Including "Why isn't Zimmerman in jail." He's in jail! He ain't exactly free to walk around, and he's got nowhere to run. He'd be free on bail anyway.

The publicity here will make sure the case is heard, but it's gotten overboard and it's time to just let the evidence be heard. So don't make it worse. IE, let's not get Judge Judy involved.

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by BigDigga

you must've missed my "**** people love to avoid" thread........check it out

to me everything hinges around the dispatcher telling him not to pursue when he heard him get out of his car then start to chase him and the other thing is the phone call martin was on with his girlfriend as the scuffle started.

the police video showing him with no injuries is negllgable imo being it's too grainy.

is zimmerman racist? i have to say yes listening to the 911 call. racial profiling is common and even non-racists do this, but what zimmerman uttered under his breath while chasing martin sounded like a racial remark. zimmerman's people are shamelessly trying to say what was said could've been anything when it can really be one of 2 things

I admit, I did not read your thread. Zimmerman said either "goons" or "coons" both are terms that aren't used all that much anymore which makes it even harder to determine just what he said.

Yes the original police video that was released was too grainy to really tell anything, but my main gripe is that the instant that was released the media was all over it. When the footage was cleaned up a bit and it was noticed that there did indeed appear to be injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head, the media didn't react with the same swarm of attention. However, what is pretty apparent is that Zimmerman didn't suffer a broken nose. What likely happened was he had a bloody nose and his lawyer tried to pass it off as a broken nose.

We seem to be in agreement though that racist or not, Zimmerman was in the wrong to pursue when he was told not to. When I put this into Zimmeran's shoes before the shooting, I can definitely see why he was determined to get Trayvon. It is night time, you see a person walking around a gated community, and there have been several break ins and items stolen over the course of the past couple of years. If I'm Zimmerman, I'd definitely take a lot of interest in the matter, especially seeing how he was the neighborhood watch and took his job extremely seriously.

Again, I believe Trayvon did attack Zimmerman and putting myself in his shoes, I don't think it was the smart thing to do, but it's understandable. He had been being followed by some man at night and I think a confrontation happened and all of a sudden the guy mid confrontation turns around to go back to his vehicle, likely to get a weapon. Trayvon, being 6'2, used his size to push Zimmerman down and beat him before he himself (keep in mind this is what I think he was thinking, not what would really happen) was going to be attacked and killed.

Zimmerman then managed to get his gun out and shoot Trayvon, thus killing him.

These are just my thoughts on how things went down, but these are based off on what I've read, and let's be honest, both the media and the police have handled this situation terribly.

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by carob

I'm waiting for Trayvon's birthday to be declared a national holiday.

Or maybe the company that makes Tylenol can change that name to Trayvon.

The media is acting as if NOBODY else was the victim of a bias attack the same day. Or week. Or even month.

Actually you could open up any local newspaper and read some hideous, gut-wrenching cases of clear-cut racial or sexual bias attacks. Only nobody knows about it.

Because the two revved-up Revs, Sharpie Sharpton and Jesse "Don't Steal My Thunder" Jackson had to go down and lend their famous mugs to all of this.

I can't begin to guess what happened. You're dealing with two A'holes, really...a hoodie-wearing thuglet who has been in trouble, and some amateur playing cop.

What's today's news? Yet another idiot shooting up a bunch of students. Maybe the Revs should go out to the campus and say something. Maybe Tray's pals would like to march in support of gun control and against a gun that killed a whole bunch of completely innocent kids? Nah, what's the fun in THAT, when you can go wear hoodies and make things worse, and potentially start a riot like the one that nearly took Reginald Denny's face off his head.

And yeah, they don't run any nasty pix of Trayvon, but the media is scared to do that, almost as scared as Zimmy is at this moment. It's a tragic situation but it's been overplayed. Including "Why isn't Zimmerman in jail." He's in jail! He ain't exactly free to walk around, and he's got nowhere to run. He'd be free on bail anyway.

The publicity here will make sure the case is heard, but it's gotten overboard and it's time to just let the evidence be heard. So don't make it worse. IE, let's not get Judge Judy involved.

There's a definite agenda against Zimmerman, that much is for sure. The media isn't willing to just present things how they are/were.

[Bigblock]

Originally Posted by bill1234

There's a definite agenda against Zimmerman, that much is for sure. The media isn't willing to just present things how they are/were.

Its very important that they profit off people's misfortune.

[BigDigga]

Originally Posted by Bigblock

If the summary above is accurate theres a few mistakes by both men here.

Depending on where this took place most concealed carry permits come with the understanding that you don't go looking for trouble. This means not participating in verbal or physical confrontations. However some states allow you to use force to protect property so if that kid was doing something then zimmerman wasn't out of place chasing him off. Martin's mistake was comming back looking for fight if zimmerman did indeed retreat to his vehicle. If Martin attacked him at his car then zimmerman is an armed citizen exercising his right to self defense.

As far as being a racist its irrelevant. You can't attack someone for calling you names anywhere past the third grade. There was probably racial remarks tossed out by both sides here.

it took place in florida where they employ a "stand your ground" law

zimmerman's people are framing a picture that martin attacked him and went for his gun and he had no choice but to kill him. under the stand your ground law he would get off. problem is martin was on the phone with his girl as he walked home from 7:12 to 7:16. she heard martin ask "what are you following me for?" to which zimmerman replied "what are you doing around here?". she indicated that the scuffling immediately started and the phone call was disconnected. trayvon laid dead a minute later according to the police report. they indicated they arrived on scene at 7:17 to find him dead

race is in no way irrelevant in this case. not when you have one person making racial remarks on tape the 911 tape.

i just saw an enhanced video of zimmerman's custodial video and you can definitely see something on the back of his head. they then had audio experts indicate that the person screaming was not zimmerman

[BigDigga]

Originally Posted by bill1234

I admit, I did not read your thread. Zimmerman said either "goons" or "coons" both are terms that aren't used all that much anymore which makes it even harder to determine just what he said.

Yes the original police video that was released was too grainy to really tell anything, but my main gripe is that the instant that was released the media was all over it. When the footage was cleaned up a bit and it was noticed that there did indeed appear to be injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head, the media didn't react with the same swarm of attention. However, what is pretty apparent is that Zimmerman didn't suffer a broken nose. What likely happened was he had a bloody nose and his lawyer tried to pass it off as a broken nose.

We seem to be in agreement though that racist or not, Zimmerman was in the wrong to pursue when he was told not to. When I put this into Zimmeran's shoes before the shooting, I can definitely see why he was determined to get Trayvon. It is night time, you see a person walking around a gated community, and there have been several break ins and items stolen over the course of the past couple of years. If I'm Zimmerman, I'd definitely take a lot of interest in the matter, especially seeing how he was the neighborhood watch and took his job extremely seriously.

Again, I believe Trayvon did attack Zimmerman and putting myself in his shoes, I don't think it was the smart thing to do, but it's understandable. He had been being followed by some man at night and I think a confrontation happened and all of a sudden the guy mid confrontation turns around to go back to his vehicle, likely to get a weapon. Trayvon, being 6'2, used his size to push Zimmerman down and beat him before he himself (keep in mind this is what I think he was thinking, not what would really happen) was going to be attacked and killed.

Zimmerman then managed to get his gun out and shoot Trayvon, thus killing him.

These are just my thoughts on how things went down, but these are based off on what I've read, and let's be honest, both the media and the police have handled this situation terribly.

yeah the media definitely ran with the vid showing no injuries. my first thought was you can't really see anything and an attorney would eat that up. mainly because you see an officer checking out the back of his head in the vid

you have martin's girl indicating she told martin to run after he realized someone was following him. as zimmerman drove his car......trayvon was running. not because he had done something illegal, but because he was scared methinks. you can clearly hear zimmerman describe this and hear his car door opening. zimmerman wore no identifying "neighborhood watch" attire.....he was just a man following him in a car. i'm thinking he didn't yell out "i'm neighborhood watch"

now, zimmerman's trying to claim that he went back to his car and was confronted, but i imagine it may have been more his saying he went back to his car to help his detail of events. that argument makes it an open and shut case if trayvon was the aggressor, but trayvon wouldn't of never ran from him if he was the aggressor. the situation seems more like the kid was cornered trying to run away and proceeded to cry out for help. i don't think the man with the gun was doing the screaming. i think the man with the gun stopped the screaming meaning the second the gunshot went off everything went silent.

hearing that **** was eerie

the media handled this story just as bad as the sanford police did

[bill1234]

Originally Posted by BigDigga

it took place in florida where they employ a "stand your ground" law

zimmerman's people are framing a picture that martin attacked him and went for his gun and he had no choice but to kill him. under the stand your ground law he would get off. problem is martin was on the phone with his girl as he walked home from 7:12 to 7:16. she heard martin ask "what are you following me for?" to which zimmerman replied "what are you doing around here?". she indicated that the scuffling immediately started and the phone call was disconnected. trayvon laid dead a minute later according to the police report. they indicated they arrived on scene at 7:17 to find him dead

race is in no way irrelevant in this case. not when you have one person making racial remarks on tape the 911 tape.

i just saw an enhanced video of zimmerman's custodial video and you can definitely see something on the back of his head. they then had audio experts indicate that the person screaming was not zimmerman

Forgive me if I do not understand this case correctly...I was under the impression that the only racial remarks Zimmerman made was the remark "coon", yet he just as easily could have said "goon" and that it is hard to distinguish between the two.

As has been established, it is now obvious that the two did end up scuffling and that Zimmerman did not get the better of it. I heard of the coroners report saying that Trayvon's hands weren't bruised or damaged, but that does not mean he didn't inflict damage to Zimmeran. Had he struggled Zimmerman to the ground, as I suspect, he likely just took his head and hit it into the ground. That would not cause bruising or damage to Trayvon's hands.

It has also been established that Zimmerman was definitely in the wrong to follow Trayvon when he was told not to. Had he simply done as instructed this major controversy would never have happened and Trayvon would still be alive, barring any other unforseen terrible events.

In my opinion Zimmerman was in the right to be suspicious of a person walking around at night in a gated community that has been the victim of numerous robberies. I can especially understand his insistance to go after the wanderer (Trayvon) if the previous robbers had gotten away time and time again.

I think it's very likely that George Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon Martin by assuming he was up to no good, but let's be completely honest, it is not right to racially profile, yet at the same time imo it's very understandable as to why it tends to be done.

Profiling of all kinds takes place. Appearance is a very powerful thing, and I'm not just talking about race. If you're a store owner and see two people walk in, one person is clean cut, dressed well, and all around looks good. The other person is dressed in a baggy sleeveless shirt, baggy sweat pants, has a lot of tattoos, and all around looks very gruff. Who are you going to keep a closer eye on?

Profiling is going to be done to determine who you should watch closer, even subconciously.