[Colzo]

BBC News - Mitt Romney secret video reveals views on Middle East


He gets President backs Israel to Attack Iran the US n British join in and fuk nos how many more men have to die in this " War on Terrorism "

[carob]

Originally Posted by Colzo

BBC News - Mitt Romney secret video reveals views on Middle East


He gets President backs Israel to Attack Iran the US n British join in and fuk nos how many more men have to die in this " War on Terrorism "

Israel attacks Iran...I don't think the British will be involved. There will be a huge hole where the sand was, and oil gushing up into the sky.

Iran attacks Israel...same thing.

As for the "War on Terrorism," hell, yeah, let's just call a truce.

Except I'm not that optimistic that every fanatical cleric, Muslim extremist, and fomenting Islamist maniac would go along. Terrorists find any excuse to go to war, right? A YOUTUBE video? A set of cartoons in Denmark?

They are as bad as the war-mongering leaders who figure making bombs, tanks and bullets is good for the economy. The terrorists are leaders, too. They get their money from their drug sales, other black-market activities and crimes...and use it to keep their half-witted followers. The only answer would be the Dole, Welfare...the government out-paying the terrorists, religious loons, Aryan Nation, whatever...giving these misfits enough of a good life they won't blow themselves up or scapegoat minority groups.

As for Palestine and Israel, they're both nuts. It's all "he said, she said," and bickering over a friggin' sandbox. They LIKE living in a desert that burns their skulls harder than walnuts and boils their brains like eggs. That's how crazy they are.

[Colzo]

Originally Posted by carob

Israel attacks Iran...I don't think the British will be involved. There will be a huge hole where the sand was, and oil gushing up into the sky.

Iran attacks Israel...same thing.

As for the "War on Terrorism," hell, yeah, let's just call a truce.

Except I'm not that optimistic that every fanatical cleric, Muslim extremist, and fomenting Islamist maniac would go along. Terrorists find any excuse to go to war, right? A YOUTUBE video? A set of cartoons in Denmark?

They are as bad as the war-mongering leaders who figure making bombs, tanks and bullets is good for the economy. The terrorists are leaders, too. They get their money from their drug sales, other black-market activities and crimes...and use it to keep their half-witted followers. The only answer would be the Dole, Welfare...the government out-paying the terrorists, religious loons, Aryan Nation, whatever...giving these misfits enough of a good life they won't blow themselves up or scapegoat minority groups.

As for Palestine and Israel, they're both nuts. It's all "he said, she said," and bickering over a friggin' sandbox. They LIKE living in a desert that burns their skulls harder than walnuts and boils their brains like eggs. That's how crazy they are.

I doubt that terriost would cease to exist but then again the US Lead forces are the occupying forces so can you blame radicals for joining the fight to defend their country? I have nothing but respect for the troops on the field especially the brutish ones since im British but I hate the government for sending them I hate the government for lying about Iraq its just oil they are after.

To the Muslims this is another Crusade a holy war the first one happening before the year 1100 so this is nothing new for them.

If Israel is Nuclear armed with the support of the UK and USA behind it why are the Iranians not allowed to be on an equal playing field... think all countries should disarm Nuks but I have to laugh when I hear the yanks say Iran or North Korea can not be allowed to bulid a Nuk when they are the only ones to ever drop them!

Most of these Terrorist have been trained and supplied by America as well the taliban they orginally backed Saddam Hussein and they have also funded Irish terrorism ( unofficially of course )

[carob]

Originally Posted by Colzo

...can you blame radicals for joining the fight to defend their country?

This was a point David Letterman raised with Obama last night. Big O was the sole guest for the evening. Dave said that to the Arabs, Americans are these goons in helmets and sunglasses and bullet-proof vests. That's all the Arabs know of America.

Obama countered by saying most Libyans recognize that Americans liberated them from a dictator, and that most believed the ambassador was a good guy. He re-iterated that it's just the fringe group of extremists who are causing the trouble.

But yeah, the bigger picture includes greed. We (non-Arabs) want their oil. We're less concerned with their backward ways. Which explains why African nations can murder, rape and cannibalize people, and We don't go over there with our soldiers and make them stop.

Obama's counter to this, is that if the Arabs want to be part of a civilized, productive 21st century they have to BE in the 21st century, and not react with violence. Which is true enough. Do we get upset about remarks about Jesus or Moses? Do we threaten Jihad because some egghead named Rushdie wrote a book? Do we make a habit of threatening to blow another country right off the map?

Just how Obama, or Romney, or anyone can get this thru the skulls of religious fanatics, I don't know. It's also not easy to deal with white trash, chavs, Aryan Nation morons, and so many others. A lot of people just aren't reasonable, and they are "have nots," so they react by taking from the haves. Taking lives (like that loser at the Colorado movie theater who couldn't get laid) or just taking property (the chavs who went looting for several days in the UK months ago).

Originally Posted by Colzo

If Israel is Nuclear armed with the support of the UK and USA behind it why are the Iranians not allowed to be on an equal playing field...

Heh heh, the word is "nuclear proliferation." We have 'em...the line ends here! We know how to use this stuff, you guys don't!

Tom Lehrer, about 40 years ago, had a song about this. It was called "Who's Next?"

Originally Posted by Colzo

Most of these Terrorist have been trained and supplied by America as well the taliban they orginally backed Saddam Hussein and they have also funded Irish terrorism ( unofficially of course )

Power corrupts, no question. Every nation has done underhanded things, made deals with the devil. "Diplomacy" "Trade" whatever. As Dylan sang, "Ain't no man righteous, not one." It usually blows up in your face...or rather, someone else's face.

I just can't defend Arab terrorism by self-flagellation: it's our fault, it's our fault. No, it's not. Look at the part the other side plays. They don't have to trade with us. Don't like us? Don't sell us your oil. Try and take it, and we'll fight you. What did America do for the USS Cole to be blown up and the World Trade Centers destroyed? I don't recall we suddenly blew up an Arab ship or knocked over a Pyramid.

These guys are hot-heads! That's part of living in a desert. It doesn't take much to provoke a maniac. Manson killed people over a Beatles song.

How the Irish-English thing settled down, I don't know! That used to be in the news constantly. John Lennon and Paul McCartney both coming out with singles begging for a truce, etc. etc. Maybe this stuff just isn't being reported as much?

I'd like to think that if the IRA calmed down, and among others in the USA, the FALN (a Puerto Rican group that did some bombing for a while), there might be some hope that other radicals can cease, get paid off, or find some other answer beyond terrorism.

Obama was very good on the Letterman show. He answered all the questions honestly, in ways you could understand. I give points to any leader who acts like he's human and reasonable. Having all the answers...or taking the most effective action...is a lot more tricky.

[Colzo]

Originally Posted by carob

This was a point David Letterman raised with Obama last night. Big O was the sole guest for the evening. Dave said that to the Arabs, Americans are these goons in helmets and sunglasses and bullet-proof vests. That's all the Arabs know of America.

Obama countered by saying most Libyans recognize that Americans liberated them from a dictator, and that most believed the ambassador was a good guy. He re-iterated that it's just the fringe group of extremists who are causing the trouble.

But yeah, the bigger picture includes greed. We (non-Arabs) want their oil. We're less concerned with their backward ways. Which explains why African nations can murder, rape and cannibalize people, and We don't go over there with our soldiers and make them stop.

Obama's counter to this, is that if the Arabs want to be part of a civilized, productive 21st century they have to BE in the 21st century, and not react with violence. Which is true enough. Do we get upset about remarks about Jesus or Moses? Do we threaten Jihad because some egghead named Rushdie wrote a book? Do we make a habit of threatening to blow another country right off the map?

Just how Obama, or Romney, or anyone can get this thru the skulls of religious fanatics, I don't know. It's also not easy to deal with white trash, chavs, Aryan Nation morons, and so many others. A lot of people just aren't reasonable, and they are "have nots," so they react by taking from the haves. Taking lives (like that loser at the Colorado movie theater who couldn't get laid) or just taking property (the chavs who went looting for several days in the UK months ago).




Heh heh, the word is "nuclear proliferation." We have 'em...the line ends here! We know how to use this stuff, you guys don't!

Tom Lehrer, about 40 years ago, had a song about this. It was called "Who's Next?"



Power corrupts, no question. Every nation has done underhanded things, made deals with the devil. "Diplomacy" "Trade" whatever. As Dylan sang, "Ain't no man righteous, not one." It usually blows up in your face...or rather, someone else's face.

I just can't defend Arab terrorism by self-flagellation: it's our fault, it's our fault. No, it's not. Look at the part the other side plays. They don't have to trade with us. Don't like us? Don't sell us your oil. Try and take it, and we'll fight you. What did America do for the USS Cole to be blown up and the World Trade Centers destroyed? I don't recall we suddenly blew up an Arab ship or knocked over a Pyramid.

These guys are hot-heads! That's part of living in a desert. It doesn't take much to provoke a maniac. Manson killed people over a Beatles song.

How the Irish-English thing settled down, I don't know! That used to be in the news constantly. John Lennon and Paul McCartney both coming out with singles begging for a truce, etc. etc. Maybe this stuff just isn't being reported as much?

I'd like to think that if the IRA calmed down, and among others in the USA, the FALN (a Puerto Rican group that did some bombing for a while), there might be some hope that other radicals can cease, get paid off, or find some other answer beyond terrorism.

Obama was very good on the Letterman show. He answered all the questions honestly, in ways you could understand. I give points to any leader who acts like he's human and reasonable. Having all the answers...or taking the most effective action...is a lot more tricky.

Wouldnt be suprised if the US done 9/11 themselves I aint saying that they did but lots of people do and it wouldnt be the first time the USA killed its own Citizens I seen that in prohibition they killed 10,000 of its own people poisoning alcohol.

I sure the Muslims would say that 9/11 was in response to the US interfering in the Middle east and supporting Israel against palestine so they could say the same thing wtf are use doing here.

Things arent as black and white as you make out Governments LIE they ignore or change history and facts to support their beliefs or to pass the buck so to speak.
When I was in Australia I was talking to an Iraqi guy and he told me that yes saddam was a bad man but he had no weapons of mass destruction and he didnt support the US invasion.

I am from the UK ( Northern Ireland ) there has been fighting here from the 1600's it will never stop the IRA's still very much alive and active but not to the extent it was say 10 years ago but thats the way it always goes here it gets quite then it starts up then it stops again both Loyalist and Republican paramilitres are still active there was pretty bad riots in belfast as close at two weeks ago

[carob]

Originally Posted by Colzo

Wouldnt be suprised if the US done 9/11 themselves I aint saying that they did but lots of people do and it wouldnt be the first time the USA killed its own Citizens I seen that in prohibition they killed 10,000 of its own people poisoning alcohol.

I wasn't around for prohibition...probably most of the people who died were victims of bootleggers who were supplying wood alcohol, or some other toxic variety, not realizing the danger.

Conspiracy theories abound for just about anything that happens. The planes that hit the towers (and the other two planes) were certainly all piloted by Arab extremists, with ties to terrorist organizations. If the USA planned this, with an idiot like Dubya in the White House, it's a miracle that nobody reputable has written a book about it. And to what end? To start World War III? To blow Iraq off the map? Didn't happen. In fact, Dubya gave the best speech of his life (maybe the only good one in his life) declaring the attack would be avenged, but not instantly declaring a war or sending planes to bomb the Middle East. He showed restraint at a time when citizens would've welcomed powerful vengeance.

As for Saddam, people seem to forget that he was toying, teasing, boasting, hinting...refusing to let inspectors in...he was warned over and over to either say he had no such weapons, or let inspectors in. Instead he kept running his mouth, and he picked the wrong time to do it. I don't recall just how far after 9/11 he got his "shock and awe," but the U.N. tried to make him see reason. That he didn't actually have the weapons he hinted he had...well, too bad for him. And his murderous sons, too.

Not a good thing to wake up first thing in the morning, and turn on the TV, and see two planes stuck into two buildings you've visited, and can see pretty clearly from anywhere in the city. Sickening to suddenly watch them both crumble and disintegrate. And nauseating to actually smell the smoke that was in the air, a stench that was not like burning oil or gasoline, or burnt paper. You couldn't doubt that you were smelling death. And it continued, day after day.

The fire was too intense to be extinguished quickly. There was visible smoke in the air, haunting the skyline, day after day, even as Mayor Giuliani told us to go about our business, which we did. Even though a mile of Manhattan remained cut off and quarantined, with people in adjoining neighborhoods unable to go to their homes. Only after a few days could people check on loved ones, or pets, and only passing security points as various blocks, were finally deemed "safe." The core area, with stores blocks away literally covered over in ash...all over the floors, merchandise and windows...remained a disaster for a long, long time.

Adding to the stress, were the pathetic signs on every bus shelter in every neighborhood...people taping up pictures of missing loved ones...people who lived in upper Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens...but took a bus or subway to the World Trade Center, or worked near that site. Where were they? Dazed? In a hospital burn unit somewhere? The signs were heartbreaking. Snapshots of people looking happy. Now missing, presumed dead.

Yeah, I was a witness to all of that. Eventually those bus shelter signs fell away. Windows suddenly had American flags in them, as citizens found a new sense of patriotism. The mayor urged people to shop as they used to...Capitalism at its finest..."Go to stores, for every $100 of receipts (I think that was the price) you can trade that receipt in for a ticket to a Broadway show. Broadway, the pride of New York..." All kinds of bizarre things were going on. I saw several Broadway shows, by the way. One night at "The Producers," after the curtain, the entire cast and orchestra came out to sing "God Bless America."

Well, that was then. Sorry about the situation you're in over there...that there's still the eruptions with the IRA. One day years ago, I was browsing a bookstore and I came upon a book by an American reporter named Webb Miller, who was killed during the bombings of the tube stations in England. I picked it up because of the title he chose. This world-traveling reporter called his book: "I Found No Peace."

[Megarodon]

9/11 was more likely than not an inside job...

That kind of building, first, does not go down like that, in that fashion unless its done with a well placed demolition program.
Teh airplane were all about the shock and awe, to create the "ground zero" for this new era... Terrorism, the new fashion word

Just a reminder, more ppl die due to domestic dog attacks than by terrorists in the entire west.

[carob]

Originally Posted by Megarodon

9/11 was more likely than not an inside job...

That kind of building, first, does not go down like that, in that fashion unless its done with a well placed demolition program.

"It's all in the timing," Johnny Carson used to say.

First off, you get four sets of Arab maniacs, place them at Logan Airport in Boston, and have only two of them try to slam into the World Trade Center.

They are to each hit a Tower, while, at the same time, a group of CIA operatives will secretly be in the building prepared to detonate powerful explosives to make sure the buildings are destroyed.

These powerful explosives, should leave no evidence behind, make no sound, and not alarm any of the hundreds of people rushing downstairs to escape the carnage.

PS, have a plane or two, or a seagull, or something or other, evident in a few of the pictures taken that day. That way a few paranoid people (including activist Dicck Gregory) can claim that the buildings were actually blown up by some kind of small but powerful scud missiles from the outside! Digital images of these projectiles have to be small and blurry. Photoshop is always an option.

Mmmm, I think not. Were you there? Watching on TV at least? The buildings came down after a while due to the incredible heat generated by all the fuel on board. The sides of the building were scorched black. Even Bin Laden was quoted as saying he didn't expect the buildings to be demolished.

And what of the other two planes? Why didn't the CIA plant a bomb or two at the Pentagon, so that it too, would be destroyed? And why didn't they have some operative make sure that the fourth plane reached its target?

Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character. Not everything can be deduced as part of a plan or a plot. Some U.S. Presidents have lived through assassination attacks. Theodore Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford. Some horrific events never happened because the CIA or FBI prevented it, and didn't bother to publicize the sensitive situation. And...some events have happened, and unexpected things were part of it. Nobody expected The Titanic to sink, any more than anyone expected the Towers to crumble.

Sometimes conspiracy theories seem to be a way for people to put order on chaos...to find reason where there isn't any, and to avoid the scary thought that some things happen for no pre-ordained reason. Same way some people in this forum instantly shout "conspiracy" if 3 judges don't see things their way, or a ref stops a fight a moment or two early. Better to think that, than to think that sometimes, life is just not fair.

[Colzo]

Originally Posted by carob

"It's all in the timing," Johnny Carson used to say.

First off, you get four sets of Arab maniacs, place them at Logan Airport in Boston, and have only two of them try to slam into the World Trade Center.

They are to each hit a Tower, while, at the same time, a group of CIA operatives will secretly be in the building prepared to detonate powerful explosives to make sure the buildings are destroyed.

These powerful explosives, should leave no evidence behind, make no sound, and not alarm any of the hundreds of people rushing downstairs to escape the carnage.

PS, have a plane or two, or a seagull, or something or other, evident in a few of the pictures taken that day. That way a few paranoid people (including activist Dicck Gregory) can claim that the buildings were actually blown up by some kind of small but powerful scud missiles from the outside! Digital images of these projectiles have to be small and blurry. Photoshop is always an option.

Mmmm, I think not. Were you there? Watching on TV at least? The buildings came down after a while due to the incredible heat generated by all the fuel on board. The sides of the building were scorched black. Even Bin Laden was quoted as saying he didn't expect the buildings to be demolished.

And what of the other two planes? Why didn't the CIA plant a bomb or two at the Pentagon, so that it too, would be destroyed? And why didn't they have some operative make sure that the fourth plane reached its target?

Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character. Not everything can be deduced as part of a plan or a plot. Some U.S. Presidents have lived through assassination attacks. Theodore Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford. Some horrific events never happened because the CIA or FBI prevented it, and didn't bother to publicize the sensitive situation. And...some events have happened, and unexpected things were part of it. Nobody expected The Titanic to sink, any more than anyone expected the Towers to crumble.

Sometimes conspiracy theories seem to be a way for people to put order on chaos...to find reason where there isn't any, and to avoid the scary thought that some things happen for no pre-ordained reason. Same way some people in this forum instantly shout "conspiracy" if 3 judges don't see things their way, or a ref stops a fight a moment or two early. Better to think that, than to think that sometimes, life is just not fair.

You could be the poster boy for the US government as I have said before the US goverment killed 10,000 Americans in Prohibition so 3000 more in 9/11 isnt as ridiculous as some people think the Nazis burned dwn the reichstag and blamed it on the commys the US funds terrorism all over the world so it has been done before.

The little-told story of how the U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition. - Slate Magazine

Who said Bin Laden is quoted as saying he was surprised the towers fell? Some American I bet?

Personally I dont no if the US done as an excuse to invade others for oil if the Jews done it to get the USA to attack there enemies or if the Muslims really did do it or maybe a combo on all 2 or 3 who knows but what I do no is that there is two sides to every story and the US government like most are lying war loving scumbags so nothing would surprise me but there is more to the story than meets the eye!

[carob]

Originally Posted by Colzo

the US goverment killed 10,000 Americans in Prohibition so 3000 more in 9/11 isnt as ridiculous as some people think

According to Debbie Blum's article, the government was spiking up levels of poisons in some alcohol products to discourage bootleggers from stealing the stuff and re-processing it. Considering the prohibition fever at the time, "demon rum" and all that, it probably seemed like a good idea. Put the blame on the bootleggers who knew what was going on and didn't care. Bootleggers were also killers. They didn't have much morality.

On a milder note, some have complained that when they download an illegal movie or music file, it actually contains a virus. Aww, the evil, evil RIAA and MPAA and whoever. They should abide by the "rules." Madonna's people once went to Limewire, and created fake files of her songs. Download 'em and you got her voice saying, "What do you think you're doing?" Naturally, this outrageous act on her part led to reprisals against her, her website, her office. How DARE she do anything?

I think the Slate piece was pretty slanted, and to make it seem like the U.S. Government distributed poisoned liquor, or intentionally murdered 10,000 is irresponsible.

Originally Posted by Colzo

Who said Bin Laden is quoted as saying he was surprised the towers fell? Some American I bet?

How about some British newspaper, like The Telegraph?

Bin Laden didn't expect New York towers to fall - Telegraph

"Using outstretched hands, bin Laden says he expected only the top floors of the World Trade Centre to topple."

One might suggest the tape has a Bin Laden double or something. That's the problem with paranoia. It's a disease that requires a lot of drugs to combat, and paranoid people don't usually want to take them, because they think it's the rest of the world that has the problem. Not the paranoid one with the thousands of scribbled pages of conspiracy notes hidden in the mattress.

Originally Posted by Colzo

there is two sides to every story and the US government like most are lying war loving scumbags so nothing would surprise me but there is more to the story than meets the eye!

If there are two sides to every story, then it's possible the Arabs are also war loving scumbags. They certainly are an insane bunch. At this point, a majority of Muslims are beginning to speak out on the mindless violence that is causing deaths and destruction among their own people. Why get so bent over a few cartoons? A YouTube video? This is the 21st Century. Christians and Jews can take a joke about Christ or Moses without blowing themselves up and taking 18 or 20 innocent people with them.

As long as the U.S. has existed, there have been people saying, "Let the third world morons sit in their dung. Don't help." But U.S. economists knew what the British knew. There's a vast world out there with important resources.

And so your country was full of war-loving scumbags who invaded India. The war-loving scumbags who took over as much of Africa as they could, splitting the rest with France and a few other war-loving scumbags. Your countrymen also came to "the New World" and the war-loving scumbags began shooting Indians. Eventually they called themselves Americans, and Americans got the rap, but most were born British.

That's human nature. But the flip side with the U.K. and U.S.A. is a certain humanity. You can read it in Kipling, who may have written of "the white man's burden," but made Gunga Din "a better man than I am," and wrote "here's to you, Fuzzy Wuzzy..." the first-class fighting man who battled the Brits with courage and skill. And when there's trouble in the world...starvation, floods, some other natural disaster...it's the U.S. who bring the aid, not Russia, China, or the rich Arabs.

Maybe the bottom line is education, or common sense. Despite all he knew about Don King, Mike Tyson eventually embraced him. Turned his back on the evil white men around him. And despite what Mike knew about Witherspoon, Ali, and so many others, Mike got royally screwed by King.

The boxing world is certainly a microcosm of the "real" world, isn't it? We see elements of corruption. We question deals made. We question rules broken. We wonder when "the fix" is in. We debate Ali's phantom punch on Sonny Liston the way others debate the JFK assassination, or Diana in her car in France.

But one thing not to forget, as you have stated, is there are "two sides." One of the most difficult things to do is resist the stereotype and the scapegoat. It's hard now, not to label all Muslims as a bunch of bloodthirsty, unreasonable religious fanatics, but we see assimilated, reasonable Muslims all around us.

Hitler was an expert at turning peoples rage, frustration, suspicion and envy onto one group. Others have followed, whether small cult leaders like Manson, or bigger ones like Bin Laden. What they all have in common is that eventually they find themselves in a jail cell, a mental asyylum (I see we are censoring a certain word, so I can't spell it correctly?? -- had to re-edit!), or in an unmarked grave somewhere in the dirt or the ocean.