JCC

It was Rocky's manager Al Weill who controlled who he fought.

You say your a historian, I suprised that you didn't know that.

Boxing in the professional ranks is all about one thing, making money.

Boxing in the amateur ranks is for glory, but in the professional ranks its the money.

Obviously, Weill was interested in fights that could draw the most money.

Weill was interested only in one thing and that's money.

Rocky wasn't boxing in the professional ranks for glory, he was there for money.

As for your mention of Valdez?

This big cuban fought for many years. Valdez was never given a title shot his entire professional career.

Valdez was a tough guy, he didn't win all his fights. But he was a good fighter.

I would have liked to have seen him fight Marciano.

I don't think Valdez could have beaten Marciano, but still I think it would have been a good fight.

I liked Valdez, he was a good fighter.

Obviously, Rocky could only fight who was there, and could fight someone who wasn't there when he was there.

Rocky was around 5'10" or 5'11", many disagree as for how tall Rocky was. But at least we know at most he could not have been any taller than 5'11", and Rocky weighed in the mid 180s.

Here is a list of some of Rocky's larger opponents.

Joe Walcott, 198, and 6 feet tall.

Don Cockell, 205, and 5'11'.

Rex Layne, 200, and over 6 feet tall.

Joe Louis, 218, and over 6 feet tall.

Lee Savold, 200, and over 6 feet tall.

Jerry Jackon, 254, not sure how tall.

Pat Connelly, 213, and was over 6 feet tall. (Connelly, stood 6' 5").

Gilley Ferron, 205, I not sure how tall he was.

Johnny Shkor, 225, and was over 6 feet tall (Shkor was 6' 5").

Bill Hardeman, 207, I'm not sure how tall he was.


Modern day training?

What would you have Rocky doing taking steriods and lifting weights.

Rocky wasn't a drug user, and he didn't lift weights, and he wasn't an advocate of taking drugs and lifting weights.

Rocky had a clean public image, and he was an professional athlete that was a positive influence on the youth.

Rocky would tell youngsters who looked up to him as being a hero figure in his day. "Live a clean life, and listen to your father and mother. They are the ones who really care about you."

Rocky was a good man, he was polite, and he was a gentleman, he wasn't arrogant and boastful, going around shooting his mouth. He did all his talking with his fists in the ring.

Modern training?

What has this modern training produced in the heavyweight division today?

You tell me! (smiling)

Its a good thing we no longer have title fights that are 15 rounds any more. For I doubt there are any heavyweights today that could go 15 rounds even with five air tanks on their backs. They aren't in good enough shape.

MODERN TRAINING -- BOXERS LIGFTING WEIGHTS

With some exceptions, only trainers today who have never boxed, and wanna be boxers that have never really succeeded, are advocates of lifting weights for boxers.

Maybe your impressed with over weight fat guys, and medicore fighters out there in the heavyweight division today, but I'm not.

If Rocky was still around in his prime today, he'd put all those guys away.

The size means nothing, he'd just wear them all down.

Rocky would flatten all those guys out there today.

JC

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

hhascup

If Rocky wanted to box them he would. Rocky was his own man. I know about his manager, BUT like Patterson's manager, they didn't want him to box Liston, BUT Patterson did it anyway.

I agree, BUT we will never know for sure.



I said Top 10 Contenders, not Tomato Cans.

Here's the only Top 10 Contenders that he fought:

Moore was 5'11" - 188 pounds
Cockell was 5'11" - 205 pounds
Charles was 6'0" - 185½ & 192½
LaStarza was 6'0" - 187 & 184¾ pounds
Walcott was 6'0" - 196½ & 197¾
Matthews - 5'10¾ - 179 pounds
Layne - was 193
AND Louis who was 6'2" by BoxRec, and weighed 213¾

and if you want to count Lee Savold, he was only 6 foot and weighed 200 pounds. The rest of the boxers you named were not contenders, only Johnny Shkor was ever a contender and that was in 1947, he fought Rocky in 1950.




I was just trying to be nice, if you say that Rocky at 185 pounds would have beaten every Heavyweight Champion ever, then I know your crazy. Like I said before, no one is SUPERMAN, and if Rocky could do what you say he can do, then he would have to be.

Here's another thing I just found as I researched and I thought you might be interested in.

Here's all the boxers that were Rated in the end of each year when Rocky was the Champion. The number after each name is the highest rating them had. The boxers in BOLD are the ones he fought.

1. Jersey Joe Walcott 1
2. Archie Moore 1
3. Nino Valdez 1
4. Ezzard Charles 2
5. Don Cockell 2
6. Rex Layne 2
7. Bob Baker 2
8. Dan Bucceroni 3
9. Tommy Jackson 3
10. Roland LaStarza 4
11. John Holman 4
12. Bob Dunlop 4
13. Clarence Henry 5
14. Earl Walls 5
15. Willie Pastrano 5
16. Johnny Williams 6
17. Heinz Neuhaus 6
18. Johnny Summerlin 7
19. Tommy Harrison 8
20. Bob Satterfield 8
21. Karel Sys 9
22. Charley Norkus 9
23. Young Jack Johnson 9
24. Jimmy Bivins 10
25. Coley Wallace 10
26. Jimmy Slade 10

JCC

Obviously, farer that you would, and obviously farer than Rocky's critics would.

If by that you mean I'm very impressed with the recorded boxing legacy that Rocky Marciano left behind, and that I have great respect and admiration for Rocky's contribution to boxing?

If that's what you mean? Your absolutely right, and I say Rocky was the best because he was the best.

Other than Rocky, what other heavyweight champion can you name that completed a professional career without a loss in gloved boxing?

Rocky was the only heavyweight champion who refused to lose, he's the only one that never got beat.

JC

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

JCC

Hey, Henry, save all that stuff for somebody who don't know nothing. I've heard all the spins, and old, tired excuses of Rocky's critics, and I've never found any of it to hold water.

JC

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

Sonny Liston

The only way you could knock down George Foreman was not through his CHIN... but by overpowering him (RON LYLE) or tiring him out (Muhammad Ali)... and maybe even body shots... but I'm not too sure!!!

hhascup

Well you said it, that's exactly why I send it to you, because over the last couple of months you have proved that you know very little, if you still think a 185 pound Rocky Marciano could knockout guys like Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Frazier.

bill1234

I don't. The only guy that might have beaten Rocky would have been Holmes, he was able to absorb Shavers best right, and get up on 5, that is a little tough to beat, other than that I see nothing wrong with it.

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