bill1234

That just means Archie had more fights. You can't blame Rocky for having less fights. The more fights you have, the more knockouts you will probably have. It is the percentage oof KO's that means the most, not the amount.

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MEMBER OF BOXINGFORUM.COM HALL OF FAME-JANUARY, 2008

JCC

Bill, your exactly right.

As for Archie Moore ... he had a lot of fights and fought for many, many years.

I think he may had been even more than 50 years of age in his last pro fight. I'm not sure. But I do know he was really a very old guy by the time he finally retired.

As I understand it Archie Moore holds the record of having the most knockouts in the history of gloved boxing ... with 141 knock outs, however. As for being the greatest slugger of all-time he was not.

Rocky Marciano is the greatest slugger of all-time for reasons his record was 49-0, with 43 KOs ... having knocked out 88 percent of his opponents compared to 76 percent by runner-up Joe Louis.

Archie Moore's percentage of knockouts doesn't even come close to Joe Louis's much less that of Rocky Marciano's.

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

hhascup

I agree with a lot of what you said, BUT you CAN NOT just go by knockout percentages either. If you did, you would have to rate Carlos Zarate (63 ko's in 70 bouts) up their. Heavyweight LaMar Clark had either 44 or 45 knockouts in 48 or 49 bouts, would you consider him one of the greatest sluggers of all-times. Vitali Klitschko had 34 knockouts in 37 bouts. I can go on and on.

Even a guy like Alex Stewart had 40 knockouts in 53 bouts. I wouldn't consider him a real slugger, would you.

By the way, I just got back from the Ring #8 Christmas party in New York. I met former boxers such as Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Gerry Cooney, Chuck Wepner, Iran Barkley, Emile Griffith, Carlos Ortiz, Leon Spinks, Juan LaPorte, George Chuvalo, Vito Antuofermo, Mustafa Hamsho, Joey Gamache, Ray Boom Boom Mancini, Saoul Mamby, Tommy Gallagher, from the contender and Bert Sugar.

I talked to most of them especially Bert Sugar and Chuck Wepner. I also drove Howie Albert their and back and I also drove Al Certo back to New Jersey.

We had a GREAT time and Bert Sugar is working on a book for the International Boxing Hall of Fame and he asked me for my help.

Wepner came over to my table and after taking many pictures with people all around, he said, this guy here does so much for boxers all over and he is a good friend of mine, Henry Hascup.

That made me feel real good.

I also had several people take pictures with Cooney, Sugar, LaPorte, Griffith, Ortiz and all the others.

JCC

Yes, I can because I don't consider the fighters you mentioned who are products of the modern-day watered-down boxing organizations and weight-classes as being near the kind of talent that was in past boxing eras at the time we has only eight weight divisions and only one world champion in each weight division.

If I were to rate fighters of today it would be only be with those who are products of the modern watered-down boxing organizations and weight-classes. Even most the ones who even call themselves champions today, would not have even been contenders much less champions in the past boxings eras when there were only eight weight divisions.

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

hhascup

Here we go again!

Vitali Klitschko would have been a force in any era just because of his size and punching power and like I stated many times before, most people say that Rocky fought watered-down competition too.

Klitschko won his 1st 27 bouts by knockout and fought most of the best heavyweights of his day, just like Rocky.

Again, your rating Rocky one way and the others another way.

There a lot of sluggers that had not so good chins, such as Earnie Shavers, and no one punched harder then he did.

It would be hard just to pick one, BUT again you can not just go by their records.

By the way, I asked Al Certo last night about his rating and at 1st he tried to back it up but he started to laugh when I gave him his list. He asked me if I had ever seen the tape of Braddock, Baer and others. I told him that I have all 15 rounds of the Braddock/Baer bout. He said, OK it looks like you know what you talking about too!

JCC

That tells me that Al Certo is too busy and has better things to do with his time.

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

hhascup

I was setting with Al at the cocktail hour and I talked to him all the way back to New Jersey. If you were ever in New York around this time, you will know it took over an hour just to get through the Lincoln Tunnel.

Certo is a pretty good guy and we talked for a long time.

JCC

No kidding! Yeah, I hear he's a great guy. I only know about him is all. I think he must be near 80 years old by now, or very near it. In being as ex-fighter, a Lightweight I think? Not sure, but I know he's been in involved in one or another with the sport since the 1940s.

What will we do when all the great guys like him are gone?

It would be an understatement if I were to say that I'm disappointed with the boxing scene as things are in the sport now today.

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."

hhascup

Here's what I wrote about him when we inducted him into the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame in 1988.

Inducted on November 11, 1988:

Al Certo, who boxed under the name of Al Certisimo, was born in Hoboken on September 28. 1928. At the age of 19
he took up amateur boxing and capped an unbeaten amateur career by winning the Golden Gloves title in the 135 lb. class.
Certo turned pro and the winning streak continued. He reeled off 20 triumphs, including 11 kayos, before losing to
Benny Hernandez in Brooklyn.

Certo's career was cut short when he cut his hand with a saw while helping his brother remodel a car wash.
Certo didn't stop there. He has run many benefits and fund raisers, bringing in such greats as Rocky Graziano, Willie Pep,
Jake LaMotta, Joey Giardello, Tippy Larkin, Carmen Basilio and Jack Dempsey just to name
a few.

Certo later became an outstanding promoter and manager, handling some of the top ringmen of our day including former
World Jr. Welterweight Champion Buddy McGirt. It is with great honor that we induct Al Certo into the New Jersey
Boxing Hall of Fame.


Al Certisimo

Alias Al Certo
Country US American
Hometown Hoboken, NJ
Division Lightweight


Career Record © Boxing

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-03-26 Henry Hausse Newark, NJ, USA W PTS 4
1953-05-28 Buddy Fondt Newark, NJ, USA W KO 4
1953-10-15 Jimmy ****ins Newark, NJ, USA W KO 1
1953-10-29 Johnny Long Newark, NJ, USA W PTS 4
1953-11-12 Don Cheatum Newark, NJ, USA W PTS 4
1953-12-10 John Dale Newark, NJ, USA W KO 2
1954-01-14 Braxton Reed Newark, NJ, USA W PTS 6
1954-01-28 Don Cheatum Newark, NJ, USA W KO 3
1954-02-23 Lou Marsicano New York, NY, USA W PTS 4
1954-03-16 Benny Hernandez New York, NY, USA L PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 9 (KOs 4) Lost 1 Drawn 0 Total 10

JCC

Hey, Henry. Appreciate you sharing that!

No doubt handlers and trainers today could learn some lessons from the older guys like Al Certo. I think there are a lot of handlers and trainers today that just don't know much. They just don't have the experience. They haven't served their time.

You know my dad is an ex-fighter and near Al's age and had spent a lot of years there but not as trainer or handler but as good featherweight and lightweight in his day, and he's got a lot of recollections and stories of those days that I could and have sat and listened to for hours.

It has often made me wish that I had been a fighter back in those days instead of the time much later in which I was even in the amatuer ranks. Of course, that's from where the pros came from; I just think there was by far more talent in boxing in those days. You know guys like Willie Pep, Sandy Saddler, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Graziano as well as many others that could also be named.

Every time I watch tapes of the old fights from back in those days that were before my time. Always I wish I could have been there. In my veiw, those were the days when boxing had its greatest fighters, you really, I mean REALLY had be salty to fight pro back in those days.

__________________
"The more I sweated in the gym, the less I bleed in the ring."