Moralman

Dear Friends
kind regards
Today we begin with our Step back in time series in which we will look at a match up from the past and discuss it.
Here is Mike Tyson defeating Trevor Berbick to win the WBC World heavyweight title.



Did any of you watch this match live back in 1986?
Judging by the performance that Tyson gave on this night, how far did you expect him to go in Heavyweight division?
What were your first impressions of Tyson?
If you could watch the match and give me your opinions A.S.A.P I'd appreciate it.
yours thankfully
John

TommyGunn

Keep the old fighters in the history section dude.

Tyson looked simply unstoppable at this time. The only guy who was close to his level ( so people thought) was Micheal Stinx.

Tyson should have been able to dominate the HW scene for years after this. His speed power and movement were awesome. His combination punching was great at this time too.

TysonJones

I agree 100 %

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LeedsLad

Tyson at that age was a phenomenon. He had freakish physique, strength, speed and power. At that time he would have been a struggle for any Heavyweight in history.

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TysonJones

Its not like berbick was a push over either.

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calzaghefella

I watched it live and can only echo what has been said.

In my opinion at his peak Tyson's was the best combination puncher in heavyweight history, at least in terms of concussive blows. The speed of the hand, combination punching and latteral head movement and footwork were just unbeliveable. I think people were also amazed when they came up against him just how hard he hit for his size. I think a lot of guys got scared witless the first time he landed on them, it is like they realised that they just couldn't compete against a guy who hit with so much power, speed, agility and movement.

One of the best punchers in the history of boxing when it came to hitting a guy falling to the canvas, at least up there with anyone. It is amazingly hard to hit a guy on the way down, sometimes Tyson would do it two or three times and put away much chance opponents had of getting back in a fight.

He should have domminated the heavyweight division for many years, but the loss of Atlas, Rooney and Cus meant he was on a road to ruin. I think the loss of those guys and falling into the hands of Don King actually killed Tyson off to a serious degree even more so than the lost jail years did.

Funny or rather sad but it was the loss of footwork, sharper combination and more than anything the loss of latteral head movement and feet that said it was over for him. As soon as he started walking in straight lines he was tailor made for a top jabber.

I don't think Tyson was the hardest one punch hitter of all-time as some have suggested and in fact I wouldn't put him in the top ten in that category, but he still hit hard as hell and when you consider the combinations and all....wow.

Really sad to see the heavyweight division in the state it is today, a young Tyson would tear it to pieces, as would many a great fighter from yesteryear. A pity that these things seem to go in cycles, with loads of good fighters or nobodys...

Great years getting to see Tyson, great years.

Megarodon

I wouldnt say the best combination puncher. Because I think Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Holmes, and even Holyfield could put punches togheter more often than Tyson. But that doesnt make Tyson any bad...

One of the reasons I'd say Tyson wasnt much of a combo puncher was simply his power, he could deliver those powefull hooks and right crosses.. The moments he'd put togheter the punches were mostly when he already had the other guy hurt, and well, any decent finisher jumps in and try to put punches togheter in order to finish. And Tyson was one hell of a finisher, one of the best...

Its not even up to compare him to today's heavyweights..

calzaghefella

You don't have to mate, it is all about differing opinions. To be fair I did not put him as the best combination puncher either, I said he was up there with the best which I at least think he was, of course I respect the fact that you differ, quite a lot in fact as I like what you write a lot of the time.

I put Ali and Louis in there, I put a few guys up top on the top shelf in terms of combination punching. Of course they are all differing, they all have differing traits whether it is offensively or defensively, be it hitting from behind the jab or switch hitting from head to body or vice versa etc etc.

In the case of Tyson the combination punching was about very fast and powerful combinations of hooks, uppercuts and overhand shots as well as fantastic combination finishing.

IMHO his power was never the kind of single shot power of a Foreman or Marciano, or Lennox Lewis even. For me Tyson was all about very heavy hitting albeit less than the top one punch knockout wonder guys, but doing that very heavy hitting in relentless combinations of hooks, uppercuts and mawling overhand shots...that is IMHO how he did it, I feel combination punching for Tyson was a massive part of his success.

Also isn't combination finishing also a big part of it?

I mean often Tyson would nail a guys two or three times on the way down and not with glancing blows either, he would do it with devastatingly accurate on the money shots.

Again that for me is still combination punching, I mean what else is it if not combination punching?

I know where you are coming from and agree that it isn't the tidy more sophisticated combination punching that we have seen from some of the greats, but I beleiev Tysons combination punches are up there with the best, it was just his form of using them.

e.g I have never been a fan of Roy Jones as many know, but I have never critisized him for not being orthodox or throwing shots without leading with a jab...it takes all sorts and I feel that is true when it comes to each boxing skill, there is no one way or right way, differing guys use their skills in the way that fits them.

Must say though I don't really think Tyson threw many crosses, something you mentioned, that along with the jab are the last punches I associate with him, he just didn't tend to throw to many straight punches...least not from my memory.

I think you're abvove comments massively underestimate Tysons finishing ability. Also I don't agree that he did his best work simply on the finish. It was often multiple flurries of two, three or four punches ata time that reall had opponents reeling. And his finishing like I say was combination hitting, Tyson style.

Very rarely did I ever see Tyson hit a guy with one big shot as a finnish, it was nearly always hitting a guy multiple times on the way to the canvas therby removing any chance of the guy getting back up as might have been possible from a single shot.

All this is just my opinion of course, but I guess that is all any of these discussion are, differing opinions as we are nto discussing records or stats.

I know that when you think of combination punching you are not thinking of Tyson, but almost certainly of more seemingly considered and certainly slicker work, and most probably combination punching of a more classic textbook nature....nothing wrong with that......just opinions is all.

Megarodon

How come I understimated Tyson's finishing ablity? I've just said Tyson was one of the best finishers in history...

Well, honestly I really dont think he was that of a combination puncher at all. Yes he could put some good punches togheter, specially those hook uppercut combinations. But thats not so much of a flurry combination, its more like a set up comby, sorta like a classic jab right cross, I mean these are combinations but it sets up for one or two big punches. And once Tyson had his opponent hurt he would jump in and throw a barrage of punches in order to finish, and he was very good and accurate at it..

calzaghefella

I know you said he was one of the best, but I thought he underestimated the damage he had already done to opponents, or at least it sounded from what you said as though you felt Tyson already had opponents gone before he laid on the finish. I don't think Tyson did that too often at all, a lot of his knockouts came from hurting people and finishing them almost within one event, or minute or so of boxing. But hey it is not always possible to correctly ascertain empahsis on flat forums, so perhaps your words/the way I read them or a combination of the two ( be it you or me) are a little different from your intention. If you did not mean what I have explained above then, fair enough. If you did mean what I have stated above and the reason for my comment, then we differ slightly in opinion.

Your points are nearly always good and offer validity even if I don't always agree.

I know where you are coming from on this point and mentioned it myself in my last post, I take a slightly differing view of it...not much else.