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White people never got treated speacial Marciano had to retire because he really screwed up his back. It is too bad that he never had that comeback fight with Ingemar Johansson.
Was this while Ingemar was still champ?
Sounds like ducking Patterson if so...Maybe with Marciano's bad back Patterson MIGHT have beat him, but it's too reaching for Marciano to not want to take the challenge.
He was out of shape cuz he was washed up :P He looked good nonetheless. Years later he proved he could still hang going the distance with Holyfield. Marciano never let us see him past his prime, he only had an 8 year career with 80% of his fights sub elite level standard. It's almost like it was intentional so people would rate him higher than he deserved. It would appear to have worked. Him being White I'm sure has nothing to do with it...
A couple of years ago I met Ted Lowry, who went the distance with Rocky twice. Ted is a small man for a heavyweight BUT if you read the papers the day after their 1st bout, most, if not all, of them had Ted winning.
The local newspaper had Lowry winning six rounds to four.
If you look at Rocky's record, you will find that Rocky fought at the Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island 28 times, BUT still most of the people their thought Lowry won.
I believe that is a record for a Heavyweight Champion. Charles fought 26 times at the Music Hall Sports Arena, Cincinnati, Ohio BUT he also had a lot more bouts then Rocky had too (116 to Rocky's 49).
A couple of years ago I met Ted Lowry, who went the distance with Rocky twice. Ted is a small man for a heavyweight BUT if you read the papers the day after their 1st bout, most, if not all, of them had Ted winning.
The local newspaper had Lowry winning six rounds to four.
If you look at Rocky's record, you will find that Rocky fought at the Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island 28 times, BUT still most of the people their thought Lowry won.
I believe that is a record for a Heavyweight Champion. Charles fought 26 times at the Music Hall Sports Arena, Cincinnati, Ohio BUT he also had a lot more bouts then Rocky had too (116 to Rocky's 49).
Wow, was Ted local too? Seems almost impossible for Marciano not to have won the fans over, it was practically his arena.
Wow, was Ted local too? Seems almost impossible for Marciano not to have won the fans over, it was practically his arena.
Ted was from New Bedford, Massachusetts. He also fought at the Rhode Island Auditorium 6 times, 2 times before he fought Rocky and 2 times after he fought Rocky the 2nd time.
hhascup curious to see where you rate Marciano in the list of the best Heavyweights. If you could show everyone above him and a few below I'd appreciate it. It's ok if you're ratings aren't an exact science, I realize how difficult it is to do, just want to get a sense of your general view of the heavyweights we've had.
Sounds like ducking Patterson if so...Maybe with Marciano's bad back Patterson MIGHT have beat him, but it's too reaching for Marciano to not want to take the challenge.
Yeah. Marciano was considering a fight with him until he lost the rematch with Floyd Patterson, and then the hopes for a fight dissapeared. Technically he was not ducking Patterson, because Patterson wasn't calling him out and Marciano was still retired.
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hhascup curious to see where you rate Marciano in the list of the best Heavyweights. If you could show everyone above him and a few below I'd appreciate it. It's ok if you're ratings aren't an exact science, I realize how difficult it is to do, just want to get a sense of your general view of the heavyweights we've had.
That's hard because of match-ups. Example:
Foreman would beat Frazier and Norton everytime, BUT he would loss to Ali and Ali would have trouble with both Frazier and Norton.
I made upthis list several years ago BUT everytime I look at it, I want to make some changes. I don't know 2 boxing historians that would agree with another historian on a top 10 list.
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Jack Johnson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano
11. Gene Tunney
12. Evander Holyfield
13. Mike Tyson
14. James J. Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Riddick Bowe
I went by overall career, not at their prime. Like I said, if I had to make it out today, I might change a few. I believe Tyson would have beaten Marciano BUT Marciano had a better overall career.
Foreman would beat Frazier and Norton everytime, BUT he would loss to Ali and Ali would have trouble with both Frazier and Norton.
I made upthis list several years ago BUT everytime I look at it, I want to make some changes. I don't know 2 boxing historians that would agree with another historian on a top 10 list.
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Jack Johnson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano
11. Gene Tunney
12. Evander Holyfield
13. Mike Tyson
14. James J. Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Riddick Bowe
I went by overall career, not at their prime. Like I said, if I had to make it out today, I might change a few. I believe Tyson would have beaten Marciano BUT Marciano had a better overall career.
No problem that Dempsey had plaster in his gloves to KO Willard and refused to fight Black fighters even after Jack Johnson had reigned as champ for years?
Tunney I'd rate as a Light Heavyweight. Charles was prime at Light Heavyweight but it's fair to list him as a Heavyweight.
No Sam Langford, Harry Wills?
Those comments aside definitely have everyone else in the top 20 and mostly top 10 of my list too.
No problem that Dempsey had plaster in his gloves to KO Willard and refused to fight Black fighters even after Jack Johnson had reigned as champ for years?
Tunney I'd rate as a Light Heavyweight. Charles was prime at Light Heavyweight but it's fair to list him as a Heavyweight.
No Sam Langford, Harry Wills?
Those comments aside definitely have everyone else in the top 20 and mostly top 10 of my list too.
I was rating just Heavyweight Champions, so Langford, & Wills were left out and Tunney and Charles was added. In the list that Bert Sugar has, both Tunney and Charles are in his top 10 as heavyweights.
It was never proven that Dempsey had anything in his gloves, in fact most people that looked into it, said he did not. As far as Dempsey not boxing Black boxers goes, he did box some before he was Champion BUT after Johnson, no one wanted him to box another one. Harry Wills did sign a contract with Dempsey at least once and maybe twice BUT the people around at the time were against it and it fell through.
I also go by what other boxing historians have to say.
Rocky Marciano vs. Larry Holmes
Marciano had to retire because he really screwed up his back. It is too bad that he never had that comeback fight with Ingemar Johansson.
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