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Old 05-28-2009, 11:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Can i ask posters due to the incerdibly large post from Obama not to quote the original post
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The amount of research that has gone into this post is nothing short of incredible. I have to give you major props Obama.

I think that this post as well as the Top 20 Greatest Heavyweights need to be stickied for all to see. Excellent stuff.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh yeah and Obama, def impressive You truly are a boxing nerd :P Gj man

SRR isnt called the greatest for nothing. If you go by your score stystem by how large of a margin is he the best ever?
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh yeah and Obama, def impressive You truly are a boxing nerd :P Gj man

SRR isnt called the greatest for nothing. If you go by your score stystem by how large of a margin is he the best ever?
My scoring system doesn't always put people in the order I would. It's more of a guide than anything else. I haven't ran the FULL numbers on my p4p top 10...only Robinson. I would imagine Harry Greb and Willie Pep would have high scores.

Other guys like Sam Langford and Henry Armstrong would score significantly lower, but, the risk involved in their careers is greater, so that has to be factored in.
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician! HUGOBOX is a superior tactician!
you May Want To Add Some Graphics To Your Research ,just A Suggestion , So That Our Younger Members Can Know Who We're Taliking About Here Huh...
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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My scoring system doesn't always put people in the order I would. It's more of a guide than anything else. I haven't ran the FULL numbers on my p4p top 10...only Robinson. I would imagine Harry Greb and Willie Pep would have high scores.

Other guys like Sam Langford and Henry Armstrong would score significantly lower, but, the risk involved in their careers is greater, so that has to be factored in.
The perfect example of this is Mayweather scoring a higher resume rating then Whitaker.. when in actual fact it's pretty clear that Whitaker has a better legacy. Not to mention the fact he was robbed blind TWICE.. once by Chavez and the other by Ramirez and has a questionable loss against De La Hoya. That's 2 A-level wins and one A- win right there.
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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you May Want To Add Some Graphics To Your Research ,just A Suggestion , So That Our Younger Members Can Know Who We're Taliking About Here Huh...
Thanks Hugo, I'll keep it in mind in the future.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have seen many ways of rating boxers and Obama's is one of the best. Not everyone well agree no matter how you try to rate them. I also made out several myself. Bill Gray wrote a book called "Boxing's Top 100," which rates all the Champions in 29 categories.

Here's some facts on Sugar Ray.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought 71 different boxers a total of 108 times that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another.

His overall record against them were:
87 Wins-(45 KO)-17 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)

That also means that he fought 92 bouts against boxers that were never rated and his record against them was:
86 Wins-(63 KO)-2 Losses-(0 KO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)

Robinson fought 61 boxers out of his 200 bouts that were rated in the top 10 when he fought them and his record was
45 Wins-(18 KO)-14 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-2 Draws

BUT in his 1st 41 bouts against them, his record was:
38 Wins-(15 KO)-2 Losses-1 Draw (His next bout was against Maxim.)

Here's a list of all the boxers that Robinson fought that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another and his record against them.

Abrams, Georgie 1-0
Angott, Sammy 3-0
Archer, Joey 0-1
Armstrong, Henry 1-0
Barnes, Ray 1-0
Basilio, Carmen 1-1
Basora, Jose 1-0-1 (1 KO)
Bell, O'Neill 1-0 (1 KO)
Bell, Tommy 2-0
Belloise, Steve 1-0 (1 KO
Berger, Maxie 1-0 (1 KO)
Burns, Charley 1-0 (1 KO)
Castellani, Rocky 1-0
Castiglione, Nick 1-0 (1 KO)
Costner, George 2-0 (2 KO)
Curcio, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Delannoit, Cyrille 1-0 (1 KO)
Dellicurti, Vic 3-0
Docusen, Bernard 1-0
Downes, Terry 0-1
Doyle, Jimmy 1-0 (1 KO)
Dupas, Ralph 1-0
Dykes, Bobby 1-0
Fullmer, Gene 1-2-1
Fusari, Charley 1-0
Gavilan, Kid 2-0
Ghnouly, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Giardello, Joey 0-1
Graziano, Rocky 1-0 (1 KO)
Guggino, Carl "Red" 1-0 (1 KO)
Harrington, Stan 0-2
Harris, Ossie 2-0
Hecht, Gerhard - NC
Hernandez, Art 0-0-1
Hernandez, Ferd 0-1
Hudson, Cecil 2-0(2 KO)
Jannazzo, Izzy 4-0 (2 KO)
Jones, Ralph Tiger 0-1
LaMotta, Jake 5-1 (1 KO)
Leahy, Mick 0-1
Lee, Don 2-0
Lello, Pete 1-0 (1 KO)
Levine, Artie 1-0 (1 KO)
Martin, Georgie 1-0 (1 KO)
Maxim, Joey 0-1 (1 TKO-BY)
McDaniels, Jimmy 1-0(1 KO)
Mims, Holley 1-0
Motisi, Tony 1-0 (1 KO)
Moyer, Denny 1-1
Nettlow, Al 1-0 (1 KO)
Olson, Carl Bobo 4-0 (3 KO)
Pender, Paul 0-2
Quarles, Norment 1-0 (1 KO)
Rangel, Sheik 1-0 (1 KO)
Rindone, Joe 2-0 (2 KO)
Rubio, Norman 2-0 (1 KO)
Secreet, Sammy 1-0 (1 KO)
Servo, Marty 2-0
Shapiro, Maxie 1-0 (1 KO)
Stretz, Hans 1-0 (1 KO)
Taylor, Chuck 1-0(1 KO)
Turner, Earl 1-0 (1 KO)
Turpin, Randy 1-1 (1 KO)
Tygh, Jimmy 2-0 (2 KO)
Villemain, Robert 2-0 (1 KO)
Wade, Aaron Tiger 1-0 (1 KO)
Wallace, Frankie 1-0 (1 KO)
Wilson, Jackie (L.A.) 2-0 (1 KO)
Zannelli, Ralph 1-0
Zengaras, George 1-0
Zivic, Fritzie 2-0 (1 KO)

87 Wins-(45 KO)-17 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)

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Old 05-29-2009, 03:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Castiglione, Nick 1-0 (1 KO)
Ghnouly, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Guggino, Carl "Red" 1-0 (1 KO)
Quarles, Norment 1-0 (1 KO)
Secreet, Sammy 1-0 (1 KO)
Taylor, Chuck 1-0(1 KO)
Tygh, Jimmy 2-0 (2 KO)
Wallace, Frankie 1-0 (1 KO)
Zengaras, George 1-0
These are wins that I don't consider notable. Also, you must have access to monthly ratings from this time period (I envy you), because most of these guys don't appear in the annual ratings.

I'm going through these names now to see if I should add any to his notable wins.

Edit: After looking it over I think the only one worth considering for a notable win is Chuck Taylor.
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Last edited by Obama; 05-29-2009 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't know if this will come out right BUT here goes:

BOLD means rated at the time they fought Robinson:

Boxer Weight 1st-Rated Last-Rated Months-Rated Best-Rating
Abrams, Georgie 160 1938/08 1947/10 055 01*
Angott, Sammy 135-147 1938/07 1946/04 081 00
Archer, Joey 160 1963/03 1967/05 051 01*
Armstrong, Henry 126-147 1935/01 1945/06 123 00
Barnes, Ray 160 1950/08 1953/02 018 04*
Basilio, Carmen 147-160 1953/06 1962/02 087 00
Basora, Jose 160 1942/09 1949/08 048 02*
Bell, O'Neill 160 1948/01 1948/05 002 07*
Bell, Tommy 147 1944/01 1949/02 051 01*
Belloise, Steve 147-160 1940/06 1950/06 096 01*
Berger, Maxie 135-147 1938/05 1944/02 033 05*
Burns, Charley 135 1935/07 1935/11 005 05*
Castellani, Rocky 160 1949/02 1957/02 059 01*
Castiglione, Nick 135 1941/11 1943/02 005 08*
Costner, George 147 1945/11 1951/02 032 01*
Curcio, Joe 147 1946/09 1946/09 001 10*
Delannoit, Cyrille 160 1948/08 1949/06 011 02*
Dellicurti, Vic 147-160 1939/12 1945/09 022 06*
Docusen, Bernard 135-147 1945/07 1950/10 050 01*
Downes, Terry 160-175 1960/09 1966/03 052 00
Doyle, Jimmy 147 1945/06 1947/08 019 02*
Dupas, Ralph 135-147 1953/09 1965/03 136 01*
Dykes, Bobby 147-160 1949/10 1956/02 033 01*
Fullmer, Gene 160 1955/08 1964/07 107 00
Fusari, Charley 147 1946/11 1952/03 049 02*
Gavilan, Kid 147-160 1948/01 1958/09 106 00
Ghnouly, Joe 130-135 1931/11 1936/04 031 05*
Giardello, Joey 160-175 1952/10 1968/03 152 00
Graziano, Rocky 147-160 1944/09 1952/10 083 00
Guggino, Carl "Red" 135 1937/02 1938/03 006 06*
Harrington, Stan 147-160 1963/09 1967/06 035 02*
Harris, Ossie 160 1945/09 1945/10 002 10*
Hecht, Gerhard 175 1953/03 1958/03 061 01*
Hernandez, Art 160 1965/11 1966/03 002 10*
Hernandez, Ferd 160 1966/12 1968/10 023 02*
Hudson, Cecil 147-160 1943/02 1947/12 006 02*
Jannazzo, Izzy 147-160 1935/03 1944/08 066 01*
Jones, Ralph Tiger 160 1953/02 1960/08 047 03*
LaMotta, Jake 160-175 1942/07 1953/02 121 00
Leahy, Mick 160 1965/01 1965/03 003 10*
Lee, Don 160 1984/04 1986/12 032 04*
Lello, Pete 135 1939/02 1941/04 016 03*
Levine, Artie 160-175 1946/05 1949/04 012 06*
Martin, Georgie 147 1941/01 1944/02 006 10*
Maxim, Joey* 175-200+ 1941/02 1956/09 148* 00
McDaniels, Jimmy 147 1943/06 1945/08 019 03*
Mims, Holley 160 1952/02 1960/06 057 02*
Motisi, Tony 147 1942/05 194304 009 06*
Moyer, Denny 147-160 1959/04 1972/06 099 01*
Nettlow, Al 135-147 1939/04 1943/02 006 08*
Olson, Carl Bobo 160-175 1949/08 1967/05 139 00
Pender, Paul 160 1959/06 1964/02 050 00
Quarles, Norment 135 1937/01 1939/02 012 08*
Rangel, Sheik 147 1943/02 1944/02 009 05*
Rindone, Joe 160-175 1951/06 1954/02 004 07*
Rubio, Norman 147 1941/09 1944/02 010 09*
Secreet, Sammy 147 1942/01 1946/08 006 06*
Servo, Marty 147 1942/02 1947/02 022 00
Shapiro, Maxie 126-135 1940/07 1945/02 018 03*
Stretz, Hans 160-175 1954/02 1958/02 019 02*
Taylor, Chuck 147 1946/06 1946/11 004 07*
Turner, Earl 147 1942/11 1948/09 011 04*
Turpin, Randy 160-175 1950/03 1958/02 065 00
Tygh, Jimmy 135 1939/02 1940/09 002 09*
Villemain, Robert 147-175 1947/09 1953/02 046 02*
Wade, Aaron Tiger 160 1945/12 1946/02 003 07*
Wallace, Frankie 126-135 1932/01 1938/02 020 02*
Wilson, Jackie (L.A.) 135-147 1940/01 1947/04 032 02*
Zannelli, Ralph 147-160 1938/02 1953/02 018 03*
Zengaras, George 135 1937/09 1939/11 007 08*
Zivic, Fritzie 147 1936/08 1945/08 095 00

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