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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These two iron chinned, hard hitting, endless stamina, high pressure fighters were pretty much even in every aspect. With speed in favor of Pryor, but all around toughness in favor of "The Onion Farmer", who takes this slugfest?
 

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Pryor was actually a lightweight, he moved up to 140 because he knew he wasn't getting a title shot. Basilio might be too strong, but he wasn't a knockout puncher, he'd wear guys down. I refuse to believe he'd wear down Pryor at 147 where Aaron wouldve had more power. Pryor wins by UD or possibly a stoppage since Carmen was there to be hit and The Hawk was there to hit (as often as possible).

Basilio has the better win, but that logic isn't useful for this discussion (unless Sugar Ray Robinson had the same style as Pryor and Pryor himself didn't do good against that style) because that's more of a testament to styles.
 

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The Professor
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Robinson had a pretty simple but effective style. In short, it's called perfection. That's not the only better name Basilio has on his resume either. There's Tony DeMarco, Ike Williams, Johnny Saxton, Billy Graham, Gil Turner, and Chuck Davey. Pryor beat club fighters compared to these guys.

Basilio fought in the golden age of the Welterweight division. His career ended having a total of 5, I repeat FIVE, fights of the year. Pyror was good, but not good enough to fight a bigger man of this quality and expect to win.
 

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Pryor has 3 KO victories over 2 Hall of Famers (Cervantes and Arguello) and 1 over Hearns 1 year before The Hitman turned pro, he also destroyed the rest of his opponents.

Basilio was not unbeatable and anyone that had excellent stamina and chin (like Pryor) had a good shot at beating him.

5 fights of the year means he was prone to be in exciting fights.
 

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The Professor
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Pryor has 3 KO victories over 2 Hall of Famers (Cervantes and Arguello) and 1 over Hearns 1 year before The Hitman turned pro, he also destroyed the rest of his opponents.

Basilio was not unbeatable and anyone that had excellent stamina and chin (like Pryor) had a good shot at beating him.

5 fights of the year means he was prone to be in exciting fights.
Bringing in amateur records to pad his lacking resume...and it still doesn't match up.

Basilio wasn't unbeatable but if Pryor had the amount of fights Basilio had against this lvl of opposition he'd have multiple losses to. I don't give Pryor 1 chance in hell against Kid Gavilan who Basilio got a split decision lost to. If they fought 10 times Basilio wins around 7.
 

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Bringing in amateur records to pad his lacking resume...and it still doesn't match up.

Basilio wasn't unbeatable but if Pryor had the amount of fights Basilio had against this lvl of opposition he'd have multiple losses to. I don't give Pryor 1 chance in hell against Kid Gavilan who Basilio got a split decision lost to. If they fought 10 times Basilio wins around 7.
Bringing up his amateur win over Hearns further shows how good he was against A level boxers. It wasn't modern amateur boxing with headgear much bigger gloves, etc. It was a 3 round boxing match where Hearns was a year away from turning pro. It's more than a legit overall highlight to mention in a shortened career.

I'm not trying to "match up" by stating there resumes because they don't. Basilio had a full career where he went up 2 full weight classes, Pryor didn't. But for the time he was at his best, he was among the best, during his prime he was undefeated against the highest opposition available to him with only 2 fights going the distance.

Why wouldn't you give him a chance against Gavilan? Kid Gavilan wasn't invincible either (no knock on him), he only had like 20+ knockouts in 100+ fights. Pryor in his prime was like Henry Armstrong in style and you already know what he did. AP showed it, him and his drug use just didn't let himself prove it.
 

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Spike Spiegel
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I've always been a huge Pryor fan. I'll never ever forget the first Pryor/Arguello fight. One of the greatest fights I've ever seen. I'd definitely go in favour of Pryor, I've seen Basilio vs Sugar Ray (both fights) and I've seen Basilio vs Fulmer I, still need to see the second fight. As for the fight itself, I'd favour Pryor. I rank him as the greatest Jr. Welterweight of all time, I think his quality of opposition in his pro career may not have been as good as Carmen's (Gavilian, Fulmer, Robinson, Graham etc..), but I still think Pryor was a tough, quick boxer who'd have won a close decision in what would have been a classic fight. I like Basilio's chances though, it could go either way because there is no stoppage in this fight, a decision is 95% likely.
 

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The Professor
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Bringing up his amateur win over Hearns further shows how good he was against A level boxers. It wasn't modern amateur boxing with headgear much bigger gloves, etc. It was a 3 round boxing match where Hearns was a year away from turning pro. It's more than a legit overall highlight to mention in a shortened career.

I'm not trying to "match up" by stating there resumes because they don't. Basilio had a full career where he went up 2 full weight classes, Pryor didn't. But for the time he was at his best, he was among the best, during his prime he was undefeated against the highest opposition available to him with only 2 fights going the distance.

Why wouldn't you give him a chance against Gavilan? Kid Gavilan wasn't invincible either (no knock on him), he only had like 20+ knockouts in 100+ fights. Pryor in his prime was like Henry Armstrong in style and you already know what he did. AP showed it, him and his drug use just didn't let himself prove it.
People like Gavilan and Robinson would clown Pryor not necessarily by KO...but just sheer boxing skills. He'd eat flush shots all night. And not like the Arguello fight, it would be like the worst round of that fight for Pyror in ever round. Arguello was merely a B level technician who gave Aaron all sorts of problems, and was over the hill and coming up from lighter weight divisions.

About Hearns...he just wasn't the Tommy Hearns we all know until he turned pro. Pryor could have never beat him later. Sugar Ray Leonard himself needed a miracle to beat Hearns the first time and get the gift of a draw the second time.
 

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People like Gavilan and Robinson would clown Pryor not necessarily by KO...but just sheer boxing skills. He'd eat flush shots all night. And not like the Arguello fight, it would be like the worst round of that fight for Pyror in ever round. Arguello was merely a B level technician who gave Aaron all sorts of problems, and was over the hill and coming up from lighter weight divisions.

About Hearns...he just wasn't the Tommy Hearns we all know until he turned pro. Pryor could have never beat him later. Sugar Ray Leonard himself needed a miracle to beat Hearns the first time and get the gift of a draw the second time.
Tony DeMarco (fought at lightweight), Ike Williams (fought at super featherweight), and Billy Graham (fought at super featherweight). 2/3 of them beat Basilio in his prime, so I'd think Pryor had a great shot at winning.

I know you want to talk about their opponents so you can have a shot at discrediting my argument, but that doesn't dictate who would win in a head to head match. Styles and attributes make fights and Pryor's matches up well against anyone in history under welterweight.

There's a reason Leonard, Hilmer Kenty, and Jim Watt (or their management) kept away from Pryor. He is A class whether you like it, agree with it, accept it or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tony DeMarco (fought at lightweight), Ike Williams (fought at super featherweight), and Billy Graham (fought at super featherweight). 2/3 of them beat Basilio in his prime, so I'd think Pryor had a great shot at winning.

I know you want to talk about their opponents so you can have a shot at discrediting my argument, but that doesn't dictate who would win in a head to head match. Styles and attributes make fights and Pryor's matches up well against anyone in history under welterweight.

There's a reason Leonard, Hilmer Kenty, and Jim Watt (or their management) kept away from Pryor. He is A class whether you like it, agree with it, accept it or not.
Super-featherweight wasn't a division back then. Those were all invented to create more money. It is easy to say "so and so fought at whatever weight" but, that doesn't mean they weren't great when they moved up. Look at Mayweather, he went from light to welter just fine. Look at Hopkins, he jumped up to lightheavy with no problem. Ali was barely a heavyweight at the start of his career. He won the gold at lightheavy. It all depends.
 

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The Professor
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Pryor is A class...who said he was't A class. One of the best junior Welterweights ever....but Junior divisions are phony. They have barely been in existence in the scheme of things. Pyror is just no elite Welterweight (a real weight class). He would have moved up to Welterweight if he thought he was good enough to rule that too. His only interest in 147 was getting money fights, same reason Hatton went up to Welter to fight Mayweather. I said Pryor would win 3 out of 7 fights against Basilio, that's not exactly something a B class fighter could do. Pryor might have stood up to and old undersized Arguello's punches but Basilio walked through Sugar Ray Robinson punches and NEARLY lasted the distance with a YOUNG, DANGEROUS, and FULL SIZED Middleweight in Gene Fullmer. Can't say Gene had his way with him either, it was fight of the year afterall. He managed to do that after he was washed up too. Took hell of a beating tho, didn't have much left after that. Pryor was never subjected to 1/10th the punishment Basilio took over his career. Pryor was just too untested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Pryor is A class...who said he was't A class. One of the best junior Welterweights ever....but Junior divisions are phony. They have barely been in existence in the scheme of things. Pyror is just no elite Welterweight (a real weight class). He would have moved up to Welterweight if he thought he was good enough to rule that too. His only interest in 147 was getting money fights, same reason Hatton went up to Welter to fight Mayweather. I said Pryor would win 3 out of 7 fights against Basilio, that's not exactly something a B class fighter could do. Pryor might have stood up to and old undersized Arguello's punches but Basilio walked through Sugar Ray Robinson punches and NEARLY lasted the distance with a YOUNG, DANGEROUS, and FULL SIZED Middleweight in Gene Fullmer. Can't say Gene had his way with him either, it was fight of the year afterall. He managed to do that after he was washed up too. Took hell of a beating tho, didn't have much left after that. Pryor was never subjected to 1/10th the punishment Basilio took over his career. Pryor was just too untested.
In a way, Fullmer was just a bigger Basilio. But of course, it's not fair to say he was completely a bigger Carmen.
 

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The Professor
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In a way, Fullmer was just a bigger Basilio. But of course, it's not fair to say he was completely a bigger Carmen.
I consider Fuller a much dirtier fighter...his gameplan was a simple one, maul you. Basilio had much better boxing skills. Fullmer was too much for Robinson and Basilio at that stage of their career...Robinson wouldn't have even got that 1 win if he didn't land that perfect punch. Took a top 5 all time Middleweight (for the time being) to make an example out of Fullmer, and that was **** Tiger.
 

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I think everybody here is underestimating Basilio's punch. I think Basilio would put up with the punches that he would recieve until he wore down the chin of the hawk, and then he would go for the KO.

Pryor UD12 Basilio
Basilio TKO13 Pryor
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I consider Fuller a much dirtier fighter...his gameplan was a simple one, maul you. Basilio had much better boxing skills. Fullmer was too much for Robinson and Basilio at that stage of their career...Robinson wouldn't have even got that 1 win if he didn't land that perfect punch. Took a top 5 all time Middleweight (for the time being) to make an example out of Fullmer, and that was **** Tiger.
Fullmer was your worst nightmare if you were a slugger. He had one of the P4P best chins of all time, and despite what his record shows, he was a big hitter.
 

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Super-featherweight wasn't a division back then. Those were all invented to create more money. It is easy to say "so and so fought at whatever weight" but, that doesn't mean they weren't great when they moved up. Look at Mayweather, he went from light to welter just fine. Look at Hopkins, he jumped up to lightheavy with no problem. Ali was barely a heavyweight at the start of his career. He won the gold at lightheavy. It all depends.
I knew 130 wasn't a weight class back then, them fighting at super featherweight was just a visual. I was saying that Basilio was beaten by smaller men, and even though they are of real good quality, so was Pryor. Any A class fighter or boxer has a great shot at being as effective 2 weight divisions above their lowest, I know this. Your post should be directed towards Obama.

Pryor is A class...who said he was't A class. One of the best junior Welterweights ever....but Junior divisions are phony. They have barely been in existence in the scheme of things. Pyror is just no elite Welterweight (a real weight class). He would have moved up to Welterweight if he thought he was good enough to rule that too. His only interest in 147 was getting money fights, same reason Hatton went up to Welter to fight Mayweather. I said Pryor would win 3 out of 7 fights against Basilio, that's not exactly something a B class fighter could do. Pryor might have stood up to and old undersized Arguello's punches but Basilio walked through Sugar Ray Robinson punches and NEARLY lasted the distance with a YOUNG, DANGEROUS, and FULL SIZED Middleweight in Gene Fullmer. Can't say Gene had his way with him either, it was fight of the year afterall. He managed to do that after he was washed up too. Took hell of a beating tho, didn't have much left after that. Pryor was never subjected to 1/10th the punishment Basilio took over his career. Pryor was just too untested.
Holyfield, Azumah Nelson, JC Chavez, Kostya Tszyu, Terry Norris, Meldrick Taylor, Floyd Mayweather, Wilfredo Gomez, MA Barrera, Erik Morales, Zarazoga, Khaosai Galaxy, Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzalez, are all their careers diminished because they accomplished the most in their careers at (a) "phony" weight class(es).

Your logic for moving up in weight are distorted. There are more reasons to why it happens, money, not able to make the weight, etc. Hopkins took like 18 years to move up to 175, was that because he didn't think he was good enough? No, a lot of things factored into that. Leonard, Hearns, Pernell Whitaker, etc. all guys that took 1/10 of the punishment of Basilio, so what does that prove?
 

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The Professor
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I knew 130 wasn't a weight class back then, them fighting at super featherweight was just a visual. I was saying that Basilio was beaten by smaller men, and even though they are of real good quality, so was Pryor. Any A class fighter or boxer has a great shot at being as effective 2 weight divisions above their lowest, I know this. Your post should be directed towards Obama.



Holyfield, Azumah Nelson, JC Chavez, Kostya Tszyu, Terry Norris, Meldrick Taylor, Floyd Mayweather, Wilfredo Gomez, MA Barrera, Erik Morales, Zarazoga, Khaosai Galaxy, Carbajal, Chiquita Gonzalez, are all their careers diminished because they accomplished the most in their careers at (a) "phony" weight class(es).

Your logic for moving up in weight are distorted. There are more reasons to why it happens, money, not able to make the weight, etc. Hopkins took like 18 years to move up to 175, was that because he didn't think he was good enough? No, a lot of things factored into that. Leonard, Hearns, Pernell Whitaker, etc. all guys that took 1/10 of the punishment of Basilio, so what does that prove?
Holyfield is a top 10 all time Heavyweight....

Nearly all those other guys were in all sorts of weight classes, and some just aren't all time greats.

As for the punishment thing, I brought it up because the way Basilio and Pryor fought the ability to take a lot of punishment was necessary. Can't say that about Leonard or Whitaker, and whenever Hearns took a beating he got KTFO.

As for B-Hop, he was always a natural Light Heavyweight. Even his first fight was at Light Heavyweight. He had to run ALL the time to make 160. Guy trained like a beast. He did so because it gave him the extra advantage to dominate his opponents. It's the same **** Margarito has been doing at Welterweight. Even worse in Margarito's case...he's been 147 since age 18. Not getting heavier between 18 and 21 is just not practical. God only knows how he makes weight now at like...what 31?
 

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pryors windmill style along with his good punching power would be to much for basilio to handle,there are only a handful of fighters from the old days that would beat a champ of the more modern days and basilio was not one of them,pryor by first round kayo:cop:
 
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