Ali vs. Tyson who wins?

Tyson had a immense flaw, psychologically he was weak, and Ali was the psychological master.

Allied with Tysons psyche he also demonstrated a lack of 'testicular fortitude', when dumped on his derriere Tyson lost all interest.

Only way Tyson beats Ali would be if Ali did not enter the ring as physically prepared as he should be, which he did on occasions.

Not demeaning Tyson at all, most fighters have achiles heels psychological issues/lack of testicular fortitude at times were Tysons.

A prime Ali beats Tyson especially if it in a 15 round fight, 15 rounds of Tyson having to deal with Ali would reduce Tyson to shouting 'No Mas No Mas'.

Tyson also for most of his pro career, lacked a corner who could help him when the going got tough, and Ali would most definitely have made it tough both physically and psychologically.

Tyson was a great but Ali was the Greatest.

jaw2929 said:

My pick is Tyson, but that's because I ******* hate Ali. I won't dispute that he was a great boxer, but I don't like the ******* man at all. Far too ******* arrogant to me, completely unlikeable.

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So whats your view of 'Iron Mike', was he not arrogant and unlikeable at times?

Here are a few of the statements made by Mike Tyson during his career.

"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children"

Referring to Razor Ruddock, Tyson said "You're sweet. I'm going to make sure you kiss me good with those big lips. I'm gonna make you my girlfriend."

To a female reporter "It's no doubt I am going to win this fight and I feel confident about winning this fight. I normally don't do interviews with women unless I fornicate with them. So you shouldn't talk anymore... Unless you want to, you know."

To a male reporter Tyson said, "White boy, f*ggot, you can't touch me you're not man enough, I eat your ass all alive, you bitch, can't anybody in here f*ck with this, this is the ultimate. F*ck you, you hoe! Come say it to my face, you bitch. Come on you bitch, you're a scared coward, you're not man enough to f*ck with me, you can't last two minutes in my world bitch. (At this point the reporter backs away deeper into the crowd) Look you scared now, you hoe. Scared like a little cracker bitch. Scared of the real man! I'll f*ck you till you love me."

Ali primarily made statements to sell fights, a method Ali said he learned from a flamboyant wrestler called 'Gorgeous George'

I shall grant you that Alis verbosity regarding race for a while was very intense and certainly could be viewed as as harsh, but i do not recall Ali making comments of the nature that Tyson did above.

TomPetrelli said:

I don't agree with the guy's comment and I'm a huge fan of Ali. I've read his book and he comments on alot of his 'misdeeds'.

But - I can see why people sometimes see it that way, Ali was a fully concious guy spouting out tonnes of rubbish to annoy and irritate people - he was the gobby smart ass.
On the other hand, everyone knew Tyson was crazy and was hardly rational at times.

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I to can see why some might have found Ali a gobby smartass, but that was positive self affirmations. Ali once commented that “At home I am a nice guy: but I don't want the world to know. Humble people, I've found, don't get very far.”

Let us remember how Ali (Cassius Clay) was at the weigh in before his fight with Liston, the big bad Tyson of his time, Liston had never had a opponent act 'crazy' like Ali before, Liston lost the psychological war, wheras the big brooding Liston normally intimidated his opponents even before entering the ring.

So Alis verbosity had primarily 2 purposes,

Psychological: self affirmation, positive mental attitude, wind up the opponent, unsettle the opponent, gain a psychological advantage over his opponents.

Financial: publicising the fight, creating the some pay to see me win, some pay to see me lose, but they all pay ethos, Ali largely through his verbosity created immense money both for himself, his opponents and the promotors, Ali was a showman he talked the talk yes because he walked the walk also.

Please do not latch onto Tysons comments being those of a crazy man, yes he had psychological issues but he made his comments not whilst being psychotic, he said them of his own free will and volition.

Tysons words were those of a bully, but Tyson had earned millions because of his demeanour, his unpredictability and of being the 'bully' in and out of the ring, so had no wish or reason to not be this persona.

The only black Heavyweight Champion who made money (though did not keep much of it) by being a clean living, god fearing, giving the impression that he knew his place sort of guy, who did not court publicity, did not get photographed in situations with white ladies etc was Joe Louis, but this was stage managed to get as far away as possible from Jack Johnsons legacy of perceived arrogance, race issues etc.

Both Ali and Tyson will go down in the annals of boxing history both for their words as well as their ring exploits.

Ricky123 said:

close call but Ali wins on points.As much as I like Ali thought his slanging off was unnecessary in some of his pre fight talks eg Foreman "hes so ugly" for me you don't put people down like that.Respect the fighter and talk a good fight but don't slag others off on the basis on something superficial as looks.Similarly I cant completely respect Ali as a true champion considering some of the adultery he was meant to have committed(Rocky Marciano is another one).

A true champion for me should be clean living sadly Ali didn't quite live up to this

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Ricky in my ideal world i want 'The Champ' to be this perfect person, clean living, chartitable, good to his family, friends and fans, however life cannot always be like that.

I follow and enjoy boxing for what happens in the squared circle, i respect the fighters for their ring exploits, everything else is secondary, same way as i enjoy certain music but do not like the musicians lifestyle/behaviour off stage.

Alis nicknames for opponents were at best schoolyard banter

Liston = the bear
Frazier = the gorilla
Foreman = the mummy
Shavers= the acorn
Holmes = the peanut
Patterson = the rabbit.

Any fighter getting upset at being given a nickname, which was in a way was a publicity tool, should not be in the ring, a name will not hurt you, it is the punches from the 220+ pounds of muscle in front of them that hurts.

Boxing Champions are human, with human frailties but they are Boxing Champions because in the boxing ring they have less boxing frailties than any of their opponents.

Ricky123 said:

good one!

fair points but the reason why character is so key (as well as sporting success) is it is the fundamentals on which every human being should aspire to.Indeed Ali has mentioned it in his book as well about the philosophies of life which he learnt through others over the course of his life in "the soul of a butterfly" .

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Aspiration is important, role models are our ideal, but let us not forget in boxing, you build your body, hone your skills to win, now that could be by cutting your opponent, separating your opponent from his consciousness, or even god forbid your punches could kill or brain damage your opponent, could this damaging of another be a thing to aspire to or to role model upon?

It is of course a sporting contest carried out within strict rules, but we cannot escape from fact the aim is to 'damage' your opponent and him you. So using the champions of the noble art as aspirational ideals/role models is fine but even if they are polite, family guys, who attend church, give money to charity etc etc their 'day job' is a 'violent' one.

The point i am trying to make is that if analysed even 'perfect' boxing champions could be viewed as not ticking all the boxes, of being good role models beause of the purpose/possible outcome of their job within the ring. So if a boxer jive talk at press conferences, are adulterous or whatever these pale into insignificance when compared with the day jobs purpose.