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Discussion Starter #1
Green takes bad advice, turns down biggest payday
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Posted by Dan Rafael


While the headache-inducing search for a fall opponent for middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik continues, one guy who won't be challenging him is Allan Green, who apparently graduated magna cum laude from the Winky Wright School of Dealmaking.

That means he grossly priced himself out of the fight, just another poor decision by a fighter who seems to do nothing but make poor decisions of late.

After his last fight, an ESPN2 win against Rubin Williams on Jan. 4, Green was supposed to return Feb. 29 to face faded Antwun Echols. Instead, Green pulled out at the last minute without explanation. That boneheaded decision infuriated fight organizers, ESPN and Green's own team, and resulted in a suspension and lots of bad publicity.

Then Green, who thinks he's a superstar but has never won a big fight, declared that he would no longer fight on ESPN2 -- a network that has featured him numerous times -- because he deserved the HBO or Showtime limelight. Of course, Green apparently forgot that he got a chance to fight on a Miguel Cotto card on HBO in March 2007 and blew it big-time when he looked horrible losing a clear decision to Edison Miranda.

And now, with no prospect for a fight of consequence, Green was offered a shot at Pavlik on HBO on Sept. 27 in Atlantic City, N.J., according to Pavlik promoter Bob Arum and Green promoter Tony Holden.

Mind you, Green, who would have moved down in weight, had done nothing whatsoever to deserve the shot other than be available. Even without earning the fight, it might have been interesting. I certainly would give Green a chance to win if the right Green showed up.

You'd think Green would have treated the opportunity like it was manna from heaven.

Guess we'll never know how he would have done because he turned down a whopping $450,000 (plus training expenses) for the opportunity. Who turns that kind of money down -- by far Green's biggest payday -- for a free shot at the title in a fight he can win? And who turns it down in this economy? Allan Green, who recently had to get help from Holden to pay his rent, does.

When talks for Pavlik to face Paul Williams or Wright bogged down (they still are), Arum started talking to Holden, who has treated Green like family and done a masterful job guiding his career (even though Green doesn't seem very appreciative).

Like any negotiation, each side threw out numbers and they went from there. Holden said he asked for $750,000. Eventually, he and Arum settled on $450,000. Holden also said he got the fight without having to give Arum options on any of Green's future fights in the event he won (with the exception of a rematch). That's pretty impressive. It should be noted that Pavlik's last opponent, Gary Lockett, made just $250,000 for their fight last month.

Next Holden told Arum he would take the offer to Green for his approval, which should have been a no-brainer. Pretty simple, right? Sure, until an inexperienced adviser gets involved, which is exactly what happened.

Green had recently started working with neophyte Greg Leon, who convinced Green that they should have asked for more than $1 million, a number so preposterous for that fight that it would be funny if it wasn't true. That's when Arum, Holden and Leon got on a three-way telephone call, one Holden said he advised Leon against doing. During the call, Leon angered and disrespected Arum to such an extent that he hung up the phone.

"Bob and I have done millions of dollars worth of deals over the years. We respect each other and have worked well together, and we had a deal," Holden said. "The adviser got on the phone with me and Bob, and it was a disrespectful conversation, and Bob hung up."

Holden said after the call Leon phoned him and said Green would take the offer.

But it was too late.

"I called Bob back, and the offer was off the table. Bob told me, 'I'll never be disrespected like that again,'" said Holden, who added that he had no hard feelings toward Arum.

Arum, so incensed, said he instructed his receptionist not to take Leon's repeated calls.

"They got this genius adviser who doesn't know what the [expletive] he's doing," Arum said. "They were pretty stupid. What they asked for was stupid, so the offer is off the table. You get a guy like Tony Holden, who knows the business, so what the hell does [Green] need that moron who doesn't know the business as a so-called adviser? That so-called adviser gave him bad advice."

Green, however, took it. It was another poor decision, one that cost him a lot of money and a shot at the middleweight championship.
 

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aka Dr. Real
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8,103 Posts
That fight wouldn't have made much sense anyways...he always struggles to make weight for the MW division. He's my 3rd fav fighter behing RJ and James Toney. He needs to dump that advisor though...he sounds like a moron...
 

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Team Mayweather
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24,365 Posts
I like this guy because he lives about 30 miles away from me. But he's really making some bad decisions. I know having 75 percent of his colon removed is going to give him trouble for awhile, but he needs to make the choice to fight or retire. Whats the point of boxing if you dont have a dream to be champion, He should of took the pavlik fight.
 

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Team Mayweather
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Is Greg Leon that guy from boxingscene or Max boxing? FIght hype?
I just googled him. He shows up under all boxing websites. But looks like he's mainly from bs.

Man that thing he does is hella weird! I think Miranda messed up a few of his neurons and he ended up with that tic.
I actually have a weird thought about that. It has to do with his colon problems too.
 

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Premium Member
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2 years ago nobody would've thought his career would go this way... he seems lost now. I have some doubt if he will ever land a major fight.
 

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I like this guy because he lives about 30 miles away from me. But he's really making some bad decisions. I know having 75 percent of his colon removed is going to give him trouble for awhile, but he needs to make the choice to fight or retire. Whats the point of boxing if you dont have a dream to be champion, He should of took the pavlik fight.
The excuse of his career. As far as I see it, most of his colon being removed didnt make him hire this clown and turn down the offer or make him pull out of his last fight (showcase) against a shot undersized Echols while alienating his team and ESPN. It didnt effect him when he knocked out Darrell Woods and Sherwin Davis and when he shutout Rubin Willimas in 10.

The guy is an idiot Winky WRight is a good example, but he hasn't even done what Winky has, so he is worse. These divas need to stick to modeling or something, they don't have their heart in this. This shitt reminds me of that episode of George Lopez when he tries to negotiate a contract for his daughters' boyfriend and makes them pull the offer off the table:laugh:, these guys are sitcom dumb.
 

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well looks like Williams might be scrapped for Sept. I am now hearing maybe Hopkins might land the fight Oct. 18? it could be anyone at this point. Arum has to be in a hurry if they want to sign for a fight at the end of Sept. I agree though, a shot at Pavlik is going to be hard to come by next year with Abraham and Calaghe waiting, Green needed to take that fight.
 
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Is Greg Leon that guy from boxingscene or Max boxing? FIght hype?
hes the main man on BOxingtalk.com. used to be a great website with lots of exclusives with alot of fighters until G Leon got a bigger ego than PBF and only interviews the fighters he advises and that actually talk to him anymore. all he talks about is his stable of advisees. he also said alot of bad **** about Shane Moselys wife after a disagreement and totally wrote SSM off in the fight with Judah(another he advises)

Hes a wanker who ruined a great website:thumbsup:
 

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Premium Member
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hes the main man on BOxingtalk.com. used to be a great website with lots of exclusives with alot of fighters until G Leon got a bigger ego than PBF and only interviews the fighters he advises and that actually talk to him anymore. all he talks about is his stable of advisees. he also said alot of bad **** about Shane Moselys wife after a disagreement and totally wrote SSM off in the fight with Judah(another he advises)

Hes a wanker who ruined a great website:thumbsup:
Leon is a moron, just because he had a website he thinks he knows the business.
 
G

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Dickheads respone on boxingtalk.com

Pavlik-Hopkins PPV Oct 18? Mosley-Mayorga getting moved to September 27?

Dan Rafael's latest blog on ESPN features a scathing attack on myself and world class super middleweight Allan Green that is based on lies. Saying this story is filled with holes the size of Rafael, would be too kind. It is completely fictional. ESPN.com should be ashamed for running an article written by somebody, who must've graduated magna cum laude from the Forget about fact checking school of journalism. First of all, neither Allan Green nor myself ever turned down a fight with Kelly Pavlik. Want the TRUTH, here's how the story goes.

Tony Holden contacted Allan Green to say he was working on something big that he was "pretty far along with." The next day Mr. Holden told me that fight was Kelly Pavlik. Later that evening I spoke with the Bobfather to discuss the fight.

I was surprised that it hadn't been brought to his attention. I was even more surprised when he told me that he and Tony Holden hadn't spoken for a year.

I then asked Arum what he thought about the fight. He didn't like it. I explained to him why I felt it would make sense. Our conversation concluded with him telling me that he would speak to Holden the following morning. Boxingtalk readers should be fully aware of the fact that over the years Arum and I have built up a solid relationship. Along with Don King and Charles Muniz, I consider the Bobfather as one of my three mentors in the boxing business, so disrespecting him as Fat Man Scoopless latest blog indicates is false.

Shortly thereafter I spoke with Holden and explained to him in full detail my conversation with Arum. There were two things I instructed Holden to do: get me on the phone when he speaks with Arum and most importantly, let him make the first offer. "I know how he operates, he's going to ask you what you want, so let him make the first offer."

Based on the numbers previously Pavlik potentials were offered I told Holden he should be able to get $750,000 as a package deal. He agreed. I told him if you and Arum are at a stalemate over who wants to make the first offer, start at a million and work your way down to $750,000.

Here are some interesting facts before we move on:
Sergio Mora was offered more than $1M for the fight.
Joe Greene's people were offered $750,000 for the fight
Giovanni Lorenzo had been offered $750,000 before Pavlik landed on Lockett.
And you'll never believe what I've heard unknown Gary Lockett's people got for flying across the pond to pick up a paycheck. I can't confirm that number, so we'll leave it alone.

The next day Holden calls me and tells me he spoke to Arum and things didn't go too well. I asked what happened. He said, "Arum asked me what we wanted. I told him $750,000 is fair and he came back with $400,000 and we have another call set up for tomorrow morning."

I told him that was a low offer, I think we can get more money out him and I want to be on that next phone call tomorrow morning. The next morning Holden calls me again and tells me he spoke with Arum and got him up to $450,000. At this point I asked him why he didn't get me on the phone for the call, he said he tried to call me, but couldn't get me on the phone.

Do you really think I'm making myself unavailable or ignoring such a call in the middle of the day?

I told him I don't think we should take it just yet, if you got another 50k in two minutes what makes you think we can't get anymore? He didn't think we were getting anything else at that point. For the third time, I told him I wanted to be on a three way call with Arum.

We finally get the three way going and here's how that went. Bob says, hello. Tony says, "hello I'm on with Greg, I say hello. Bob says yeah. I say, "Bobfather, 450? "in a soft curious tone that can in no way be deemed disrespectful. He hangs up. That was it.

Called him back, got hung up on as soon as I said hello. Tried calling a few more times, no luck. Who was being disrespectful? Is this how the Bobfather negotiates? This marked the first two times in over four years that Arum has hung up on me. Could it be that he's given me too many off the record lessons and too much inside information about previous offers that he doesn't want to deal with me and would prefer to deal with Holden who thought it was a good idea to answer Bob's, 'so how much you want proposition?

Arum was able to convince the experienced Holden, that merely calling him the Bobfather was the most direspected he's ever been in his whole life. I tried to put him on to game by informing him that Arum and I have been discussing making Bobfather Boxingtalk shirts and selling them on the site to donate money to boxing charities. In short, I was trying to put him on to how Arum operates, but it was tough for the Oklahoma based promoter to keep up.

My answer to Arum's intial question would have been something like, as much as you're willing to spend. You have the budget, you have the champion, you have the HBO date and you'll be the promoter in charge, so you tell me. Anything but a number would have been a better OPENING answer, but what do I know?

WITHIN AN HOUR of the conference call, I had already spoken to Allan and told him we might not get any more money. I think we should take the fight, not due to Holden's keen negotiating skills, due to the fact that regardless of what we get for this fight, this is an opportunity to become a multi-millionaire and have a market value that exeeds our fan base.

Allan agreed. I immediately called Tony and told him we're going to take it for the $450,000. Try to get some training expenses if you can, but we're taking the fight. Arum and Holden hadn't spoken to each other in the hour that passed between getting hung up on and me telling Holden we accept the fight.

Why Tony Holden would make some of the remarks he made publicly is beyond me. He is obviously offended that Allan felt he needed some help. During our discussions, he is quick to point out how experienced he is, and in a sarcastic tone, refer to all of my experience. I might not be as old as Mr. Holden, but last time I checked it's taken me one year to represent more than triple the amount of fighters he currently does.

Another interesting fact you should know is that HBO NEVER ACCEPTED OR APPROVED ALLAN GREEN. You'll notice Rafael's article lacks any quotes from HBO, I challenge him to get them on the record saying Allan Green was at any point during all of this, accepted or approved by the network.

Tony Holden not speaking with HBO or Arum about the fight he was "pretty far along on" before I spoke to Arum is another interesting fact.

ALLAN GREEN NEVER TURNED THIS FIGHT DOWN. WE HAVE BEEN, AND STILL ARE READY TO SIGN A CONTRACT FOR $450,000. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS SEND IT AND IT WILL BE SIGNED IMMEDIATELY. ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS SEND IT FROM THE MOMENT IT WAS ACCEPTED AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNED IMMEDIATELY

The next several days became a matter of waiting for the Paul Willaims negotiations to fully collapse so we can get the fight as their last resort. Allan already began training early since he'd have to come down to 160 to make the fight. Don't know many boxers who begin training for fights they turned down.

As is the norm, I had spoken to the Bobfather several times during this waiting period. I told him we accept the fight for $450,000 and each converstaion was cordial. Arum never told me the fight was off the table until yesterday evening, because HBO didn't want to do it. Another conversation he didn't hang up on me on. Makes sense though, why would he continue to hang up on me when we're getting with his program?

Since it looks like Paul Williams isn't happening, HBO is currently looking at a potential Bernard Hopkins-Pavlik fight on HBO PPV October 18, moving Shane Mosley-Ricardo Mayorga to September 27 on HBO World Championship Boxing. Maybe Rafael would be up on this if he was better at fact checking.

If none of that comes to fruition, the position of Allan Green will not change. Allan is ready, willing and able to fight Kelly Pavlik on September 27, October 18 or any other date Arum can get HBO to approve him for.

After learning of Rafael's column earlier today, I quickly called the Bobfather, who hit me with the, 'what are you talking about?' I told him to read the article and call me right back, which he did. He still couldn't view the piece and accused me of having a more advanced version of the internet. I told him he's not stupid, and he should know what he said? I asked him why he would he would say that? I admit I got a bit disrespectful this time, and got hung up for good reason.

As much as Rafael hates on me-for obvious reasons starting with our appearances-I doubt that he would make up these remarks, so I guess the Bobfather was lying yesterday and lying twice more today. As much as I would love to continue to embarrass Mr. Holden, I'm going to end it here because at the end of the day, for the time being at least, we both have to work together to get Allan the fights he deserves.

Arum was unavailable when I attempted to call him back to see if he wanted to issue any retraction or apology for the false remarks he made.
 

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Who was being disrespectful? Is this how the Bobfather negotiates? This marked the first two times in over four years that Arum has hung up on me. Could it be that he's given me too many off the record lessons and too much inside information about previous offers that he doesn't want to deal with me and would prefer to deal with Holden who thought it was a good idea to answer Bob's, 'so how much you want proposition?

That didnt make sense and duke sounds arrogant and full of himself like he did nothing wrong he put all the blame elsewhere. He sounds like a liar, so I would advise Green to leave his adviser.
 
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