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Who leaves the best Legacy

  • Collins

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  • Benn

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  • Eubank

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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry about another legacy thread but i grew up watching these guys, collins obviously was my hero growing up and I just wondered what peoples thoughts are on who leaves the greatest legacy of the 3.

This thread aint about the following : -
1) Roy ducked them.i Wheter is true or not i care,Dont bring it up it aint relevant
2)Calzaghe beats all 3, because he doesnt but again not relevant.
3) they were **** anyway who care, cos the werent and again it aint relevant.


CalzagheFella get your teeth into this one lad
:thumbsup:
 

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I dont think this thread will be moved cause Balistiks wasn't, that just wouldm't be right.

Anyway, i voted my all time favorite British fighter. The Dark Destroyer Nigel Benn. Benn in his younger days was all out action and he would gas late in fights (Watson and Eubank 1 are perfect examples) but when he settled down he easily turned out to be the best of the bunch. Benn was robbed in the second fight with Eubank (it was scored a draw) so they are 1-1 in most peoples minds. Benn was also a fighter who would have fought anyone and inhis time he proved this by going over to the States and beating highly regarded Doug De Witt and 3 weight titalist Iran Barkley in one round. Benn also beat some very good fighters like Henry Wharton and Dan Serry. Some former world champions he beat were Sugar Boy Malinga, Mauro Galvano and Vincenzo Nardielo....His crowning moment was getting up off the floor to destroy a fighter who should really have went down as one of the greats of the sport, Gerald McClellan. The fight was brutal and Benn was never the same fighter after that as he went on to lose his title to a guy he'd already beat handily in Malinga. Benn fought another two times after the Malinga loss losing out twice to Steve Collins, once on a broken ankle. As most boxing fans know though Benn was pretty much a shot fighter when he lost those last 3.
 

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I would also go for Benn even though I still maintain that the referee gave Benn way too long to recover in the McClellan fight after he hit him through the ropes :laugh:

I can't watch the fight anymore, damn tragic.
 

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I would give it to Benn since he beat the biggest names out of the three and he was pretty much done when Collins beat him.
 

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I picked Benn also.

I picked him on the basis of avenging the defeat to Eubank, because in my eyes and that of most he won the return as Tommy rightly points out. I pick him because I think overall he fought somewhat tougher opposition out of the three, because of the Mclellan fight and performance and because of his KO record.

Roy Jones spoke about Nigel Benn and he said about the 22-0 consecutive KO record. He said that not even Mike Tyson managed that and that to go that far knocking guys out and that has to be respected.

I don't often agree with what Roy Jones says, but I agree with that.

I also wonder wher Benn ranks in history in consecutive KOs, particularly when this is moving up in calibre and not just cracking over cans?

I think 12 of those 22 were in round 1, again I wonder where this ranks in various boxing records?

I admit I am bias as I loved Benn's style, but particularly after fighting Watson where in a way the above KO style took its place in an altogether more sophisticated more well rounded boxer.

We still had Benn the brawler as seen in the Barkley fight, but now we had the cuteness of keeping the chin tucked in and him slipping shots whilst throwing bombs off of the ropes.

I don't think he would have done that pre Waton, I think he would have had that chin wide open.

We also got the Benn that paced himself in the Eubank and Mclellan fights/wars....a Benn of old but one that wasn't going to gass again in his prime.

He only lost one fight post Watson when he was good and that was a 9th round KO to Eubank which in itself is no great shame especially when the return fight is considered.

But ALL three of these guys has a legitimate claim of being the best and you can only admire and respect all three for the fights they gave us when it would have been so much easier to duck one another.

Looking at Eubank;

The guy like Benn and Collins had huge nads.

He took on those epic fight with Michael Watson, the second of which would have been easy to turn down.

He fought Benn twice the second of which was a unification match at 168 that had both their reputations staked on it as well as everything they had built up.

Chris Eubank can argue he got a win and a draw, either way like the return Watson fight a second Bennfight is something he didn't need to risk.

Eubank always awkward, powerful, rangey, difficul to hit and then when you do land the guy had a chin equal to Benn if not better and only bettered by Collins.

Then you had the power Eubank had in that hilarious until he got you with one bowled overhand right that could knock your head off Haha

Eubank fans can also argue he did better than Benn against Collins and they can also point out the fact that he was never knocked out even when shot and stepping up in weight.

Eubank detractors can point to him not having fought a big US fighter like Mclellan, but anyone doing that needs to sit down and watch this guys tapes against Watson, Benn and Collins and realise quality of this counter puncher.

Yes Eubank often looked poor if the opposition was poor. Yes he looked terrible at times coming forward to finish poor fighters off. I am sure we can all remember him coming forward and that terrible footwork leaving him square on and even walking at opponents. But the better the opponent the better the version of Eubank you got.

Eubank stepped in with little notice to fight Joe Calzaghe and despite being past his prime (not shot-big difference) still went on to give what Joe still describes as his toughest fight, that speaks volumes about the man.

Before Chris retired he even managed to win himself new fans for the gutsey way he handled himself against quality opposition in losing performances against Carl Thompson when he was shot and fighting beyond his natural weight. A million miles away from Tkna Turner records and pre fight poses and winning people over.

Collins....

Collins is one of those guys that is known as a hard man amongst hard men.

Collins might as well have been fighting with a crash helmet on because the odds of putting this guy down with a head shot were just laughable.

A shotgun blast to the head might put Collins down, but I wouldn't want to try it because if it did put him down he would be furious with you when he got up EEK

As far as I am aware Collins only went down once legitimate * in his pro career from a head shot and that was against Eubank.

Apart from that he only ever went down once from a body shot. * note he went down once more past his prime which is debateable.

Collins was a guy who his detractors always say he lost who?

What these people fail to understand is that Collins peaked very late. Much like Bernard Hopkins his skills matured with age and the Collins who beat Eubank and Benn was a million miles away from the Collins of many years earlier who lost to the likes of Mike Mccallum.

He always had a very solid shot and a chin that was harder than steel (granit is a disservice), but he developed into a very fine boxer as well.

Collins Eubank are absolutely classic fights and Collins at his absolute best. This is the Collins that chased Roy Jones and took out a full page spread in a major boxing magazine advertising and requesting a fight with Roy Jones. This is the guy that became like Benn before him # 2 in the world at 168 who Roy wouldn't fight.

Would Collins have beat Jones or Calzaghe for that matter?

I will respect the wishes of our original poster in this regard.

What I will say is that Calzaghe to this day says that Eubank was his toughest fight and given the outcome of the Collins Eubank, fights it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that Collins would have gave him an even tougher fight irrespective of outcome.

Collins might well have been the only man to beat Calzaghe....either way we will never know.

Collins was unable to make the Calzaghe fight of course due to failing a scan and not keeping his licence to box. He did not voluntarily decide not to fight as some people have incorrectly said.

Collins did say that he was so tired of chasing Roy for a fight that in the end he would have fought him in a telephone box with one man and a dog watching.

You can't help but think he literally mean't just that and that no poetic licence was involved......and let's face it who the hell would want to be in a fight with Steve Collins, it must be right up there with dark alley ways with guys with knives in terms of places you would want to be.

Collins said of Nigel Benn that he wished he could of fought him in his prime recognising the version of Nigel Benn that he fought in those fights and I think Nigel was also very disappointed at that stage to give Steve and the fans more of a fight. This to me showed the real level of respect and the esteem that both these great fighters had for each other.

I will always think of Collins and his hypnotised psyching out of Chris Eubank and of a Celtic warrior Who took a punch that would have knocked out a mule but goung on to win a world title fight.

Anyone who says that Collins achievements are simply down to other fighters not being prime are being grossly unfair to a great champion.

...........................


We shouln't be forgetting Michael Watson who for me was arguably the most accomplished boxer of the lot.

Michael Watson could fight in so many styles, a pure counter-puncher, a peak-a-boo cross between Winky Wright and some Ali rope-a-dope, aggresive come forward puncher or pure boxing style.

For my money Michael Watson easily won the first Eubank fight, the Benn fight was a classic and made Nigel (If Benn never got that lesson at that stage he would not have had the career he had).

I had Michael ahead in the second classic fight with Eubank when tragedy struck.

I honestly think Michael Watson was destined for greatness before this happened.

His only major loss to Mccallum related to a whole lot of BS running upto a fight that he had been seiously messed about with and that loss would not have stood in his way to my mind and even Mccallum had great things to say about Michael and his ability and that was Mccallum back in his prime.......


P.S

Sorry for banging on but I loved this era and these fighters and the fights they gave us.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
smashing post calzaghefella, i was waiting for you to post in this. your knowledge and love of that era is quality. it was truely a great era in boxing in ireland and england.

For me its in the following order of the 3 and i left watson out cos i was just thinking of the trio fighting each other twice, that is not to say he wasnt a superb fighter and arguably could be up there with benn. What he has done in the last few years to overcome some of his problems after that fight is breathtaking.


Benn.
Collins.
Eubank (while i agree that was a poor benn who steve beat, it was a very good eubank he beat)
 

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obviously with my avatar it would be benn. not only was did he seem like a great man to listen to, but he was a warrior. he beat a lot of people in his early days and when he starting going downhill he had sense to go to america and learn new tricks. he showed that he was not only a warrior but he also became much more of a boxer too. he knocked out loads of people and had great heart.

i was at work the other day and someone told me they saw him at ministry of sound (club) and they challenged him to a fake boxing thing. the guy said he was supper fast and throwing so many punches. after they had a great night out and they sad benn was so down to earth.

anyway yes benn has a lot of people's respect and even in america he was known of.
 

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I picked Benn also.

I picked him on the basis of avenging the defeat to Eubank, because in my eyes and that of most he won the return as Tommy rightly points out. I pick him because I think overall he fought somewhat tougher opposition out of the three, because of the Mclellan fight and performance and because of his KO record.

Roy Jones spoke about Nigel Benn and he said about the 22-0 consecutive KO record. He said that not even Mike Tyson managed that and that to go that far knocking guys out and that has to be respected.

I don't often agree with what Roy Jones says, but I agree with that.

I also wonder wher Benn ranks in history in consecutive KOs, particularly when this is moving up in calibre and not just cracking over cans?

I think 12 of those 22 were in round 1, again I wonder where this ranks in various boxing records?

I admit I am bias as I loved Benn's style, but particularly after fighting Watson where in a way the above KO style took its place in an altogether more sophisticated more well rounded boxer.

We still had Benn the brawler as seen in the Barkley fight, but now we had the cuteness of keeping the chin tucked in and him slipping shots whilst throwing bombs off of the ropes.

I don't think he would have done that pre Waton, I think he would have had that chin wide open.

We also got the Benn that paced himself in the Eubank and Mclellan fights/wars....a Benn of old but one that wasn't going to gass again in his prime.

He only lost one fight post Watson when he was good and that was a 9th round KO to Eubank which in itself is no great shame especially when the return fight is considered.

But ALL three of these guys has a legitimate claim of being the best and you can only admire and respect all three for the fights they gave us when it would have been so much easier to duck one another.

Looking at Eubank;

The guy like Benn and Collins had huge nads.

He took on those epic fight with Michael Watson, the second of which would have been easy to turn down.

He fought Benn twice the second of which was a unification match at 168 that had both their reputations staked on it as well as everything they had built up.

Chris Eubank can argue he got a win and a draw, either way like the return Watson fight a second Bennfight is something he didn't need to risk.

Eubank always awkward, powerful, rangey, difficul to hit and then when you do land the guy had a chin equal to Benn if not better and only bettered by Collins.

Then you had the power Eubank had in that hilarious until he got you with one bowled overhand right that could knock your head off Haha

Eubank fans can also argue he did better than Benn against Collins and they can also point out the fact that he was never knocked out even when shot and stepping up in weight.

Eubank detractors can point to him not having fought a big US fighter like Mclellan, but anyone doing that needs to sit down and watch this guys tapes against Watson, Benn and Collins and realise quality of this counter puncher.

Yes Eubank often looked poor if the opposition was poor. Yes he looked terrible at times coming forward to finish poor fighters off. I am sure we can all remember him coming forward and that terrible footwork leaving him square on and even walking at opponents. But the better the opponent the better the version of Eubank you got.

Eubank stepped in with little notice to fight Joe Calzaghe and despite being past his prime (not shot-big difference) still went on to give what Joe still describes as his toughest fight, that speaks volumes about the man.

Before Chris retired he even managed to win himself new fans for the gutsey way he handled himself against quality opposition in losing performances against Carl Thompson when he was shot and fighting beyond his natural weight. A million miles away from Tkna Turner records and pre fight poses and winning people over.

Collins....

Collins is one of those guys that is known as a hard man amongst hard men.

Collins might as well have been fighting with a crash helmet on because the odds of putting this guy down with a head shot were just laughable.

A shotgun blast to the head might put Collins down, but I wouldn't want to try it because if it did put him down he would be furious with you when he got up EEK

As far as I am aware Collins only went down once legitimate * in his pro career from a head shot and that was against Eubank.

Apart from that he only ever went down once from a body shot. * note he went down once more past his prime which is debateable.

Collins was a guy who his detractors always say he lost who?

What these people fail to understand is that Collins peaked very late. Much like Bernard Hopkins his skills matured with age and the Collins who beat Eubank and Benn was a million miles away from the Collins of many years earlier who lost to the likes of Mike Mccallum.

He always had a very solid shot and a chin that was harder than steel (granit is a disservice), but he developed into a very fine boxer as well.

Collins Eubank are absolutely classic fights and Collins at his absolute best. This is the Collins that chased Roy Jones and took out a full page spread in a major boxing magazine advertising and requesting a fight with Roy Jones. This is the guy that became like Benn before him # 2 in the world at 168 who Roy wouldn't fight.

Would Collins have beat Jones or Calzaghe for that matter?

I will respect the wishes of our original poster in this regard.

What I will say is that Calzaghe to this day says that Eubank was his toughest fight and given the outcome of the Collins Eubank, fights it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that Collins would have gave him an even tougher fight irrespective of outcome.

Collins might well have been the only man to beat Calzaghe....either way we will never know.

Collins was unable to make the Calzaghe fight of course due to failing a scan and not keeping his licence to box. He did not voluntarily decide not to fight as some people have incorrectly said.

Collins did say that he was so tired of chasing Roy for a fight that in the end he would have fought him in a telephone box with one man and a dog watching.

You can't help but think he literally mean't just that and that no poetic licence was involved......and let's face it who the hell would want to be in a fight with Steve Collins, it must be right up there with dark alley ways with guys with knives in terms of places you would want to be.

Collins said of Nigel Benn that he wished he could of fought him in his prime recognising the version of Nigel Benn that he fought in those fights and I think Nigel was also very disappointed at that stage to give Steve and the fans more of a fight. This to me showed the real level of respect and the esteem that both these great fighters had for each other.

I will always think of Collins and his hypnotised psyching out of Chris Eubank and of a Celtic warrior Who took a punch that would have knocked out a mule but goung on to win a world title fight.

Anyone who says that Collins achievements are simply down to other fighters not being prime are being grossly unfair to a great champion.

...........................


We shouln't be forgetting Michael Watson who for me was arguably the most accomplished boxer of the lot.

Michael Watson could fight in so many styles, a pure counter-puncher, a peak-a-boo cross between Winky Wright and some Ali rope-a-dope, aggresive come forward puncher or pure boxing style.

For my money Michael Watson easily won the first Eubank fight, the Benn fight was a classic and made Nigel (If Benn never got that lesson at that stage he would not have had the career he had).

I had Michael ahead in the second classic fight with Eubank when tragedy struck.

I honestly think Michael Watson was destined for greatness before this happened.

His only major loss to Mccallum related to a whole lot of BS running upto a fight that he had been seiously messed about with and that loss would not have stood in his way to my mind and even Mccallum had great things to say about Michael and his ability and that was Mccallum back in his prime.......


P.S

Sorry for banging on but I loved this era and these fighters and the fights they gave us.
It truely is a pleasure reading your posts chris,i also have very fond memories of the great benn/watson/eubank/collins era, and this brought those fantastic memories flooding back,infact so much so i'm off now to stick some of their dvds on and get stuck into some of their truly great battles together.
Great read.;):thumbsup:
 
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Discussion Starter #14
collins holds 2, yes 2 wins over eubank, how do you rank him above him man?
But Eubank holds a win over a prime Benn. Collins has two wins over a shot Benn. I have it very close between Eubank and Collins but I probably should've ranked him above Eubank for the two wins against him. I also thought Eubank should have stopped Carl Thompson and won the CW title and then this wouldn't be in question, but shoulda, woulda, coulda's don't count. :thumbsup:
 
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Discussion Starter #15
But Eubank holds a win over a prime Benn. Collins has two wins over a shot Benn. I have it very close between Eubank and Collins but I probably should've ranked him above Eubank for the two wins against him. I also thought Eubank should have stopped Carl Thompson and won the CW title and then this wouldn't be in question, but shoulda, woulda, coulda's don't count. :thumbsup:
ueah i agree with al that. but there was nothing wronng with the eubank collins beat. i have benn at the top aswell:thumbsup:
 
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Discussion Starter #16
ueah i agree with al that. but there was nothing wronng with the eubank collins beat. i have benn at the top aswell:thumbsup:
Yep, the Eubank that fought Collins was still a very good fighter. How one of the judges scored the rematch to Eubank still amazes me.
 

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Definitely nigel benn!!!! he was the ultimate warrior. i still watch his fights, and his fight with Mcclellan was probs the best ive ever seen. to get knocked out through the ropes in the first round and come back to win is so awesome to watch again and again.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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Thanks for those comments guys...

It's great to see that other people are big time into these guys and fights still.

I wonder if we'll get another golden era like this again?

I mean even if we got this number and calibre of fighters in the same division ever again;

Would they all have the nads to fight each other?

Hard to see it.

Apparently we do have some great amateurs in the ABAs coming through and we have seen some terrific looking lads come through at the Olympics for both the GB and Eire so who knows?

I suppose a big question there again is how long some of these guys stay amateur and if they turn pro are they suited to pro boxing.

That kid Darren Sutherland (I say kid-25 or so) looks like he would be very well suited to pro boxing, maybe more than Degale and I was very impressed with his quarter final victory in the Olympics. I would really like to see him turn pro as well as Degale.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for those comments guys...

It's great to see that other people are big time into these guys and fights still.

I wonder if we'll get another golden era like this again?

I mean even if we got this number and calibre of fighters in the same division ever again;

Would they all have the nads to fight each other?

Hard to see it.

Apparently we do have some great amateurs in the ABAs coming through and we have seen some terrific looking lads come through at the Olympics for both the GB and Eire so who knows?

I suppose a big question there again is how long some of these guys stay amateur and if they turn pro are they suited to pro boxing.

That kid Darren Sutherland (I say kid-25 or so) looks like he would be very well suited to pro boxing, maybe more than Degale and I was very impressed with his quarter final victory in the Olympics. I would really like to see him turn pro as well as Degale.
darrens turned pro mate. he signed a 3 year deal with frank maloney and sky were giving him a small feature on the sports news channell the other night. hes fighting some hungarian guy i think he is next month in dublin.

used to work with darren years ago before he went off to brendan ingles gym. i agree i think he will do well in pros. he should of beaten degale though, i got the impression he was just happy to be winning a bronze which annoyed me.
 

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smashing post calzaghefella, i was waiting for you to post in this. your knowledge and love of that era is quality. it was truely a great era in boxing in ireland and england.

For me its in the following order of the 3 and i left watson out cos i was just thinking of the trio fighting each other twice, that is not to say he wasnt a superb fighter and arguably could be up there with benn. What he has done in the last few years to overcome some of his problems after that fight is breathtaking.


Benn.
Collins.
Eubank (while i agree that was a poor benn who steve beat, it was a very good eubank he beat)
Collins doesn't get enouh respect for the Eubank fights, Eubank went on to prove he wasn't a shot fighter after that. I will say he was slightly past his best though, same against Calzaghe.
 
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