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Seen a thread like this on another board.
Who do you feel is best among the well known historians and why?
Who do you feel is best among the well known historians and why?
bill1234 said:I know which board. Ummmmmmm...........To be honest Bert Sugar seems to know his stuff stats wise, as does Henry, but often when it comes to lists, people like Sugar, Henry, Fleisure, etc seem to fall short. Often a boxing fan who has watched a ton of boxing and done research will have a better list than them. Because the historians and so called "experts" try to make formulas to creating a list instead of just making it on certain criteria like legnth of reign, head-head match ups etc. They go into height weight, % and more. Stuff that makes it much too complicated.
:laugh: :thumbsup:TysonJones said:This guy named Lance Anderson.
I acknowledge you as an expert, Henry. I just don't think much of some of your opinions, the same is true of Callis - although I do think quite a lot of what he has to say. You've already stated that is fairly normal regarding boxinghhascup said:I know many Boxing Historians, including all of them at IBRO, which I am a charter member. I believe there approx. 130 members now, here a list of the Charter Members of IBRO 1982
George Blair
David H. Bloch
L. Robert Davids
Luckett Davis
Laurence F. Fielding
Herbert G. Goodman
John Grasso
Henry Hascup ( That's me )
Jack Kincaid
Gary Phillips
Bill Schutte
Johnnie J. Shevalla
Bob Soderman
Jack Stanton
Richard L. Symons
Others that showed interest were:
Bob Bottomley
Jim Leo
Arthur McClure
Donnie Post
Paul Soyka
Here's the latest list of members of IBRO:
Membership includes boxing historians Harold Alderman, Jim Amato, John Bardelli, Bob Benoit, David Bergin, Bo Bilicki, Brian Boru, Johnny Bos, Joseph Bourelly, Tom Brennan, Jim Brown, Ralph Brown, Robert Caico, Tracy Callis, Martin Sosa Cameron, Steve Canton, Jim Carlin, Robert Carson, Mike Casey, James Cashman, Ralph Cathcart, Patrick Chafe, Don Cogswell, Vince Colitti, Robert W. Collins, Julian Compton, Jimmy Connors, Paolo Consiglio, Jose Corpas, Jeff Cox, Monte Cox, Chris Cozzone, Dan Cuoco, Sean Curtin, Luckett Davis, Mike DeLisa, John DiSanto, J. Karel de Vries, Barry Deskins, Parry Desmond, Tom Donelson, Bruce Edelstein, Robert Fanelli, Laurence Fielding, Jeff Flanagan, Christer Franzen, Ray Fritz, Tony Gee, Donald Giusti, Herb Goldman, Stephen Gordon, Bill Gray, Sam Gregory, Don Hamilton, Dan Hanley, John Hanlon, Henry Hascup, Chuck Hasson, Bobby Hinds, Barry Hugman, Michael Hunnicutt, Kevin Isgoe, Charles E. Johnston, James J. Johnston, Eric Jorgensen, Hank Kaplan, Ove Karlsson, Austin Killeen, Ric Kilmer, Donald Koss, Christopher LaForce, Joe Lannan, Harold Lederman, Mitch Levin, Zhenyu Li, Frank Lotierzo, Steve Lott, Bjorn Ljungberg, Don Majeski, Michael Mayersohn, Ray McCormack, Bill Miley, Clay Moyle, Patrick Myler, Hap Navarro, Kelly Nicholson, Denis Nolan, Kurt Noltimier, John Ochs, Reinaldo Oliveria, Jr., Alister Scott Ottesen, Harry Otty, Gary Phillips, Harrin Platzner, Mike Pusateri, Pember Rocap, Allan Rosenfeld, Ted Sares, Tom Scharf, Sid Schneck, Gary Schultz, Dr. Jan Scotniki, Harry Shaffer, Phil Shea, Jack Sheehan, John Sheppard, Mike Silver, Bruce Smith, Stan Smith, Stanley S. Smith, Frank Stallone, Pete Susens, Matt Tegen, Bruce Trampler, Miles Ugarkovich, Roberto Valero, Ture Widland, Robert Winkler, Robert Yalen, and Paul Zabala.
We all work together to try to make boxing records as accurate as possible. A lot of these same guys are also editors on Boxrec like myself.
Just today I gave information out to Vince Colitti and Luckett Davis.
RoccoMarciano said:I acknowledge you as an expert, Henry. I just don't think much of some of your opinions, the same is true of Callis - although I do think quite a lot of what he has to say. You've already stated that is fairly normal regarding boxing![]()
Of course I disagree with you and Callis on some things... and not just Marciano. That is what makes something such as boxing fun. Do you tick me off at times, Henry, yeah, but I've never once questioned your right, or authority, in saying it!hhascup said:Like I stated many times, their is not 2 boxing historians that will agree on everything. The only thing we disagree about is on Rocky, and that is cool with me because we can't agree on everything either.
I try to go by what I know, which is, the records, watching tapes, look at who they fought and beat, listen to what others have to say, etc. I know I list a lot of STATS, BUT that is a BIG part of trying to rate the boxers, BUT I also know that it's not the only thing.
When I am with Bert Sugar or Herb Goldman we have a Great talk and none of us will agree 100%.
Their were times I heard them and others, make speeches and they said something that was wrong. I didn't stand up and say, your wrong, BUT I would tell them after they got through.
I have made countless amount of speeches and I have also debated many other boxing historians, so called experts and fans and I always have fun doing so. I also do this on many other sports as well.
Again, it's alright to disagree BUT we should all try to respect ones opinions.
RoccoMarciano said:Of course I disagree with you and Callis on some things... and not just Marciano. That is what makes something such as boxing fun. Do you tick me off at times, Henry, yeah, but I've never once questioned your right, or authority, in saying it!
I gain insight from others probably 1-3 times a week. Not in a boxing realm, but that is how we need to function to be a cohesive unit. We gain from what the other thinks, as a team.
In any event, I respect your opinions - agree with most.
bill1234 said:My heavyweight list is pretty much made up and modified by different people's opinions. From what Ive noticed, Holmes is on average ranked from 6-3. I have him at 4. Foreman and Frazier are usually 10-5. Same with Liston. I have them at 7,8, and 9. Jack Johnson, Lennox Lewis, Ezzard Charles, and Gene Tunney are hardest for me to rank. Because you can make so many arguments for each one to be in the top 10, and where. IMO Johnson should be no lower than 7, but no higher than 3. But thats just me.
jim amato is a very knowledgable guy to, he's on a rival forum and ive had a good few discussions with him.hhascup said:I know many Boxing Historians, including all of them at IBRO, which I am a charter member. I believe there approx. 130 members now, here a list of the Charter Members of IBRO 1982
George Blair
David H. Bloch
L. Robert Davids
Luckett Davis
Laurence F. Fielding
Herbert G. Goodman
John Grasso
Henry Hascup ( That's me )
Jack Kincaid
Gary Phillips
Bill Schutte
Johnnie J. Shevalla
Bob Soderman
Jack Stanton
Richard L. Symons
Others that showed interest were:
Bob Bottomley
Jim Leo
Arthur McClure
Donnie Post
Paul Soyka
Here's the latest list of members of IBRO:
Membership includes boxing historians Harold Alderman, Jim Amato, John Bardelli, Bob Benoit, David Bergin, Bo Bilicki, Brian Boru, Johnny Bos, Joseph Bourelly, Tom Brennan, Jim Brown, Ralph Brown, Robert Caico, Tracy Callis, Martin Sosa Cameron, Steve Canton, Jim Carlin, Robert Carson, Mike Casey, James Cashman, Ralph Cathcart, Patrick Chafe, Don Cogswell, Vince Colitti, Robert W. Collins, Julian Compton, Jimmy Connors, Paolo Consiglio, Jose Corpas, Jeff Cox, Monte Cox, Chris Cozzone, Dan Cuoco, Sean Curtin, Luckett Davis, Mike DeLisa, John DiSanto, J. Karel de Vries, Barry Deskins, Parry Desmond, Tom Donelson, Bruce Edelstein, Robert Fanelli, Laurence Fielding, Jeff Flanagan, Christer Franzen, Ray Fritz, Tony Gee, Donald Giusti, Herb Goldman, Stephen Gordon, Bill Gray, Sam Gregory, Don Hamilton, Dan Hanley, John Hanlon, Henry Hascup, Chuck Hasson, Bobby Hinds, Barry Hugman, Michael Hunnicutt, Kevin Isgoe, Charles E. Johnston, James J. Johnston, Eric Jorgensen, Hank Kaplan, Ove Karlsson, Austin Killeen, Ric Kilmer, Donald Koss, Christopher LaForce, Joe Lannan, Harold Lederman, Mitch Levin, Zhenyu Li, Frank Lotierzo, Steve Lott, Bjorn Ljungberg, Don Majeski, Michael Mayersohn, Ray McCormack, Bill Miley, Clay Moyle, Patrick Myler, Hap Navarro, Kelly Nicholson, Denis Nolan, Kurt Noltimier, John Ochs, Reinaldo Oliveria, Jr., Alister Scott Ottesen, Harry Otty, Gary Phillips, Harrin Platzner, Mike Pusateri, Pember Rocap, Allan Rosenfeld, Ted Sares, Tom Scharf, Sid Schneck, Gary Schultz, Dr. Jan Scotniki, Harry Shaffer, Phil Shea, Jack Sheehan, John Sheppard, Mike Silver, Bruce Smith, Stan Smith, Stanley S. Smith, Frank Stallone, Pete Susens, Matt Tegen, Bruce Trampler, Miles Ugarkovich, Roberto Valero, Ture Widland, Robert Winkler, Robert Yalen, and Paul Zabala.
We all work together to try to make boxing records as accurate as possible. A lot of these same guys are also editors on Boxrec like myself.
Just today I gave information out to Vince Colitti and Luckett Davis.
TysonJones said:jim amato is a very knowledgeable guy.