Boxing missing the Boat re: MMA

1880 Views 28 Replies 6 Participants Last post by SugarShane, Apr 2, 2007

goju-joe

Discussion Starter · Mar 17, 2007

I am a fan of both and I get very annoyed by the boxing VS MMA debate, especially with the boxing community.

Because of a lot of elitism unfortunately mostly among the boxing the community I feel that they’re hurting themselves regarding MMA.

The reason why it seems to me to be so one sided among the competitors themselves is that while a boxer trains in boxing and MMA fighter tries to train in many disciplines INCLUDING boxing. Most MMA fighters are actually big boxing fans, and try to train with top boxers when they can

There’s a link on the UFC showing MMA 170 contender training with Oscar Dela Hoya in Puerto Rico UFC® : Ultimate Fighting Championship®

My point is that MMA isn’t just about grappling but is also a showcase for different martial arts and because of it peoples interests in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai and wrestling have grown.

Because of the acrimonious tit for tat argument between boxing and MMA the fact that boxing plays a HUGE part in MMA is overlooked.

GSP – current WW champ trains with the Canadian Olympic boxing team in Montreal. His in and out footwork played a huge part in his domination over Matt Hughes

Many MMA fighters have pro or amateur boxing backgrounds.

Randy Couture at age 43 beat 6’8 260 Tim Sylvia by improving his boxing and head movement.

The footwork, head movement and hand speed from boxing is of vital importance to succeed in today’s MMA world

By not embracing the importance of boxing in MMA professional boxing is missing an opportunity to showcase themselves even more in a different light and not grabbing the interest of a whole generation and demographic

Just my 2 cents

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SugarShane

· #2 · Mar 17, 2007

I agree with you and don't hate MMA. I just really do not like UFC. I will only watch it when Chuck Liddell fights because he doesn't get on the ground and wrestle around. He will have someone down and let them get up.
I like watching hightlights but I quit being a fan when I paid 50 bucks and saw 6 matches with no KOs and several five minute rounds of wrestling dudes on the ground. If chuck fights, I'll buy it. Not to knock MMA just UFC as Floyd Mayweather said "boxing is a science, UFC is a fad."

da chin checka

· #3 · Mar 26, 2007

goju-joe said:
I am a fan of both and I get very annoyed by the boxing VS MMA debate, especially with the boxing community.

Because of a lot of elitism unfortunately mostly among the boxing the community I feel that they’re hurting themselves regarding MMA.

The reason why it seems to me to be so one sided among the competitors themselves is that while a boxer trains in boxing and MMA fighter tries to train in many disciplines INCLUDING boxing. Most MMA fighters are actually big boxing fans, and try to train with top boxers when they can

There’s a link on the UFC showing MMA 170 contender training with Oscar Dela Hoya in Puerto Rico UFC® : Ultimate Fighting Championship®

My point is that MMA isn’t just about grappling but is also a showcase for different martial arts and because of it peoples interests in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai and wrestling have grown.

Because of the acrimonious tit for tat argument between boxing and MMA the fact that boxing plays a HUGE part in MMA is overlooked.

GSP – current WW champ trains with the Canadian Olympic boxing team in Montreal. His in and out footwork played a huge part in his domination over Matt Hughes

Many MMA fighters have pro or amateur boxing backgrounds.

Randy Couture at age 43 beat 6’8 260 Tim Sylvia by improving his boxing and head movement.

The footwork, head movement and hand speed from boxing is of vital importance to succeed in today’s MMA world

By not embracing the importance of boxing in MMA professional boxing is missing an opportunity to showcase themselves even more in a different light and not grabbing the interest of a whole generation and demographic

Just my 2 cents

We can both agree how affective Boxing has been for fighters to succeed in MMA, but a MMA fighter with amature Boxing background is not as skill as a top ranking Pro Boxer. We all remember how Belfort embarrass Silva with pure boxing skills or how Rampage and Couture embarrass Liddell with pure boxing skills as well. And you make a great point of Couture beating Syvia with boxing skills. But now imagine a top ranking pro boxer who trains in sprawl and brawl. MMA isa great sport because it is fitted for all stylist to showcase their skills while learning new skills. Marcus Davis, Butterbean are boxing bums who as score wins in MMA. Jeremy williams is another one who made his debut in December and has scored 2 wins already. We will see.

KNUCKLE UP

· #4 · Mar 26, 2007

PrettyBoyFloyd said:
I agree with you and don't hate MMA. I just really do not like UFC. I will only watch it when Chuck Liddell fights because he doesn't get on the ground and wrestle around. He will have someone down and let them get up.
I like watching hightlights but I quit being a fan when I paid 50 bucks and saw 6 matches with no KOs and several five minute rounds of wrestling dudes on the ground. If chuck fights, I'll buy it. Not to knock MMA just UFC as Floyd Mayweather said "boxing is a science, UFC is a fad."

I would love to see floyd get in a fight with an MMA fighter with them each using their own rules. Your boy would get THUMPED.

da chin checka

· #5 · Mar 27, 2007

KNUCKLE UP said:
I would love to see floyd get in a fight with an MMA fighter with them each using their own rules. Your boy would get THUMPED.

You are dwelling on a hypothedical perception. Mayweather is not stupid. He is really smart and knows enough to realized that if he was to indeed fight in UFC he would cross train in defenses for takedowns and kicks. He is a superb boxer so he would not have to worry about his boxing skills, he would put all his efforts on defenses for MMA. By the way, Mayweather is too damn quick, if a boxer in his own sport cannot catch him, I doubt a wrestler could.

SugarShane

· #6 · Mar 27, 2007

da chin checka said:
You are dwelling on a hypothedical perception. Mayweather is not stupid. He is really smart and knows enough to realized that if he was to indeed fight in UFC he would cross train in defenses for takedowns and kicks. He is a superb boxer so he would not have to worry about his boxing skills, he would put all his efforts on defenses for MMA. By the way, Mayweather is too damn quick, if a boxer in his own sport cannot catch him, I doubt a wrestler could.

I'm agreeing with this one. It's just like when Mike Tyson was rumored to move on to MMA/UFC after his boxing was "over." If he were to go try to fight MMA fighters just by punching away he would more than likely get caught in submission. This is apples and oranges.

I must admit though I would love to see Iron Mike catch one of them with a jawbreaking hook!

I will also admit that as boxing is by far my favorite I love Chuck Liddell and will watch George St. Pierre and a couple others that I cant think of. But only if it is free. I will only pay for chuck and only if there isn't a great boxing fight on the same night. If so, I'll just youtube it.

Welcome to the board man and keep posting. We need more posters. Deuces

KNUCKLE UP

· #7 · Mar 27, 2007

da chin checka said:
You are dwelling on a hypothedical perception. Mayweather is not stupid. He is really smart and knows enough to realized that if he was to indeed fight in UFC he would cross train in defenses for takedowns and kicks. He is a superb boxer so he would not have to worry about his boxing skills, he would put all his efforts on defenses for MMA. By the way, Mayweather is too damn quick, if a boxer in his own sport cannot catch him, I doubt a wrestler could.

Your out of your mind if you think a wrestler couldn't catch floyd. As soon as he tryed he little pot shots he would be laying on his back eating elbows. He could cross train all he wanted but it wouldn't help against a world class grappler just as a grappler wouldn't last in a boxing ring with a boxer.

SugarShane

· #8 · Mar 27, 2007

KNUCKLE UP said:
Your out of your mind if you think a wrestler couldn't catch floyd. As soon as he tryed he little pot shots he would be laying on his back eating elbows. He could cross train all he wanted but it wouldn't help against a world class grappler just as a grappler wouldn't last in a boxing ring with a boxer.

That is a pointless statement. I wonder if Peyton Manning could beat Michael Jordan in Basketball? Could Wayne Gretzky beat Tony Hawk at the X-Games? Umm...yea. They are seperate sports not to be confused although part of MMA is boxing. That's it.

Sonny Liston

· #9 · Mar 27, 2007

Boxing needs a REALLY BIG STAR like Mike Tyson in their Premier Weight Division (HEAVYWEIGHT... OF COURSE)... but they don't have that!!!:thumbsdown:

KNUCKLE UP

· #10 · Mar 27, 2007

PrettyBoyFloyd said:
That is a pointless statement. I wonder if Peyton Manning could beat Michael Jordan in Basketball? Could Wayne Gretzky beat Tony Hawk at the X-Games? Umm...yea. They are seperate sports not to be confused although part of MMA is boxing. That's it.

Your statements are pointless. Any examples you give are pointless. basketball to football? hockey to xgames???? boxing to mma are more similar then any of those. it's fighting you know were you try to KO someone. only difference is mma goes to the ground.

SugarShane

· #11 · Mar 27, 2007

Ok buddy you just said Floyd fighting with Boxing rules vs. someone fighting with their rules???? Going to the GROUND IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE! That's what sets the sports apart. Boxing is much more beautiful once you completely understand it.

KNUCKLE UP

· #12 · Mar 27, 2007

yea i said that because floyd doesnt know grappling and submissions. What I mean is a pro boxer(like floyd) vs. a top mma fighter. me, having a background in both, thinks the mma fighter would win. Two top wrestlers going at it is every bit as beautiful as top boxers. so much skill in both. but with out the bias judging in wrestling.

Sonny Liston

· #13 · Mar 27, 2007 (Edited)

Back in the mid-late 90s and even the early 00s... you had Tyson (although a shadow of what he was in the 80s... he was still Mike Tyson... and he was beating 99% of opponents rather than 100% of opponents... and he was still in the big fights), Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis. Those 3 guys alone... especially in the late 90s... got The Heavyweight Division of Boxing MAKING LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY! Even when Tyson would fight somebody like... Orlin Norros... or Andrew Golota (in which the fights would only last a round or 2 in controverial circumstances)... THEY STILL MADE A LOT OF MONEY! Those big 3 names... Lewis is old and has retired... Tyson is old and is retired... past it... and having more legal problems... and Holyfield has become a JERRYATRIC... are now gone (really)... and instead we have to rely on oversized, overrated boxers without much competition in the Heavyweight Division. I know Lennox Lewis was 6'5"... but even he was a smart fighter... and had skill. He wasn't a freak with no boxing ability like that 7' Russian... or a blown up Middleweight who was past his prime in the first place! THIS IS WHAT THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION HAS BECOME... Boxing's Premier Main Attraction... it's Money Maker... nobody gives a damn about those 2 Ukranians... especially Wladimir... Heavyweight Boxing needs a REAL BIG STAR OR TWO... I'd said it before and I keep repeating myself... I'm sorry! But Don King... and numerous others... have ruined it... and I hope there's a day in which we see a "REAL HEAVYWEIGHT BOXER" in the same light as Tyson, Lewis or YOUNGER Holyfield... I hope that happens... sooner... rather than later!!!

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SugarShane

· #14 · Mar 27, 2007

Agreed tyson.

Two guys wrestling around IN MY OPINION is one of the least interesting things in the world to me. I'd rather watch them go toe to toe and box! Some MMA is awesome but I hate UFC except for Chuck and maybe two others.

goju-joe

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 28, 2007

Top BJJ players, Top wrestlers and Top kick boxers/ Muay Thai fighters who cross train well enough do well in MMA.

If Floyd cross trained and was willing to take a few losses to get his feet wet, would be a force to be reconed with.

That wasn't my point.

I train at a MMA gym that has top ranked BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai AND boxing (former Canadian Olympic coach)

Anyways the classes that get the most noobs are BJJ and Muay Thai because of the UFC and that's what people talk about. However all the "real" MMA fighters at the gym include boxing.

MMA and the UFC could help boxing gain some of it's popularity back if boxing embraced it instead of disparaged it.

SugarShane

· #16 · Mar 28, 2007

I agree with part of what you say. Mainly the first part. But...

BOXING can help itself bring more of its popularity back and it will.

goju-joe

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 29, 2007

PrettyBoyFloyd said:
I agree with part of what you say. Mainly the first part. But...

BOXING can help itself bring more of its popularity back and it will.

I wish you were right but I highly doubt it. It has to die completly before it can be reborn

SugarShane

· #18 · Mar 29, 2007

goju-joe said:
I wish you were right but I highly doubt it. It has to die completly before it can be reborn

Boxing will NEVER "die." Not as long as I'm alive!!!

dstlvb

· #19 · Mar 30, 2007 (Edited)

This argument has been been beat to death. There is even a thread in one of the other forums about this. Mayweathers statement, even though correct was stupid. Of course a top notch boxer would take a MMA fighter in a boxing match. I will even venture to say that a top notch boxer will beat a world champion in any combat sport in a boxing match. If Mayweather wanted to make a point about how tough he is why doesnt he call out a top MMA guy, thats what Liddel is, in a MMA. hes willing to call out guys to do boxing matches. He wont. I dont blame him either. What i find funny is that he even spoke about MMA match. Two years ago UFC woudnt have made the press in regards to a fight of the importance. As far as Floyd being to athletic for an MMA guy to handel. There are athletes in all sports. One sport does not produce far better athletes than another. Floyd would have to do more than simply train defense and grappling. Maybe a few years ago yeah, give him a year and he could do well. We are in the age of a fighter who has trained all displines for a good portion of there life. He would be to far behind now.

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SugarShane

· #20 · Mar 30, 2007

dstlvb said:
This argument has been been beat to death. There is even a thread in one of the other forums about this. Mayweathers statement, even though correct was stupid. Of course a top notch boxer would take a MMA fighter in a boxing match. I will even venture to say that a top notch boxer will beat a world champion in any combat sport in a boxing match. If Mayweather wanted to make a point about how tough he is why doesnt he call out a top MMA guy, thats what Liddel is, in a MMA. hes willing to call out guys to do boxing matches. He wont. I dont blame him either. What i find funny is that he even spoke about MMA match. Two years ago UFC woudnt have made the press in regards to a fight of the importance. As far as Floyd being to athletic for an MMA guy to handel. There are athletes in all sports. One sport does not produce far better athletes than another. Floyd would have to do more than simply train defense and grappling. Maybe a few years ago yeah, give him a year and he could do well. We are in the age of a fighter who has trained all displines for a good portion of there life. He would be to far behind now.

It would be retarded for Floyd to call out an MMA fight as he is a boxer. And is about to be in one of the biggest fights sales wise of all time. there's no point to any Boxers vs. MMA guys going down.

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