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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Speed - Casamayor<Marquez
Marquez uses a piston jab combined with quick counters and combinations to beat his opponents, he's slowed down, but not much. Casamayor is not slow, but he's not fast, in his last fight against Katsidis he threw some crisp one, two's that allowed him to control the opening rounds and got him the 2 first round knockdowns, but he began to look sluggish. The edge here goes to Marquez.

Power-Casamayor=Marquez
This one is close, Joel has been an on and off lightweight from the moment he began his professional career in 1996. Juan Manuel hasn't had a knock out since he moved up from featherweight to 130. The reason I had to make it even is because El Cepillo though showing good pop recently it's mostly against guys that neglect defense and Marquez shows his by throwing his more crisp punches, hurting Manny Pacquiao several times in their epic rematch and in his career of stopping most that have been in the ring against him.

Chin - Casamayor>Marquez
Casamayor has consistently shown in his career his solid beard, at one time having P4P one of the best chins in boxing going toe to toe with the biggest hitters the lightweight and super featherweight division has ever seen. Marquez has been hurt and/or knocked down in 2 of his last 3 fights, even though Joel being hurt and knocked down in his last fight the edge here goes to Casamayor.

Stamina - Casamayor<Marquez
JMM is crisp from begining to end consistently throwing punches at a good pace with sharp accuracy. JC seems to get slower and decrease the amount of punches he throws with less and slower movement. With a well prepared Joel you never know, but the edge goes to Juan Manuel.

Experience - Casamayor=Marquez
Both have been in pro prizefighting for 10+ years, in the ring against Hall Of Famers, in close fights, ring wars, title fights, unification fights, fight to determine who's the best in their respective divisions, etc. Against 99% of the active fighters they would hold the experience factor over them, against each other they're even.

The breakdown: I see this fight getting off to a slow start in the first round, picking up in action in the early and middle rounds, and Marquez taking over in the later rounds with Casamayor making it hard on JMM to do so, but not being able to do enough to take the rounds. Marquez will take this one in a decision win.

My analysis record 1-1
 

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Speed - Casamayor<Marquez
Marquez uses a piston jab combined with quick counters and combinations to beat his opponents, he's slowed down, but not much. Casamayor is not slow, but he's not fast, in his last fight against Katsidis he threw some crisp one, two's that allowed him to control the opening rounds and got him the 2 first round knockdowns, but he began to look sluggish. The edge here goes to Marquez.

Power-Casamayor=Marquez
This one is close, Joel has been an on and off lightweight from the moment he began his professional career in 1996. Juan Manuel hasn't had a knock out since he moved up from featherweight to 130. The reason I had to make it even is because El Cepillo though showing good pop recently it's mostly against guys that neglect defense and Marquez shows his by throwing his more crisp punches, hurting Manny Pacquiao several times in their epic rematch and in his career of stopping most that have been in the ring against him.

Chin - Casamayor>Marquez
Casamayor has consistently shown in his career his solid beard, at one time having P4P one of the best chins in boxing going toe to toe with the biggest hitters the lightweight and super featherweight division has ever seen. Marquez has been hurt and/or knocked down in 2 of his last 3 fights, even though Joel being hurt and knocked down in his last fight the edge here goes to Casamayor.

Stamina - Casamayor<Marquez
JMM is crisp from begining to end consistently throwing punches at a good pace with sharp accuracy. JC seems to get slower and decrease the amount of punches he throws with less and slower movement. With a well prepared Joel you never know, but the edge goes to Juan Manuel.

Experience - Casamayor=Marquez
Both have been in pro prizefighting for 10+ years, in the ring against Hall Of Famers, in close fights, ring wars, title fights, unification fights, fight to determine who's the best in their respective divisions, etc. Against 99% of the active fighters they would hold the experience factor over them, against each other they're even.

The breakdown: I see this fight getting off to a slow start in the first round, picking up in action in the early and middle rounds, and Marquez taking over in the later rounds with Casamayor making it hard on JMM to do so, but not being able to do enough to take the rounds. Marquez will take this one in a decision win.

My analysis record 1-1
Great, well thought out post.

Speed

Marquez

Power

Casamayor

Chin

Casamayor

Stamina

Marquez

Experience

Marquez - He's fought the better opposition in my opinion, and has done very, very well against them despite being fucked over.

Fight Analysis:
I think (like Hector) that this fight will start out very slowly. I see 2-3 rounds of the feeling out process. After a few rounds I think they will start to get into some kind of rhythm, with Marquez outboxing Casamayor. I haven't been very impressed with Casamayor's last 2 fights. Yes, he stopped Crapsidis, but I don't put any stock into that guy. While, I could easily see Marquez tasting the canvas in this fight, I think he will win a closer decision than I previously thought. I kind of get that feeling that Casamayor is back on track after the loss to Santa Cruz. (Don't come at me with that "he won" bullshit.)

Final Result
- Juan Manuel Marquez - UD
 

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I'm also rolling with Marquez by UD.

Unlike Marquez, Casamayor seems to be really past it.
I agree for the most part, but I'm really worried that any fight now Marquez is going to slip a LOT. By "slip" I mean drastically drop off.
 

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I agree for the most part, but I'm really worried that any fight now Marquez is going to slip a LOT. By "slip" I mean drastically drop off.
I thought he would show it in the Pacquiao fight. But eh didnt, he didnt faze, no big signs of slowing down.
I think its not gonna happen now, but wont surprise me if it comes in the next few fights
 

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I thought he would show it in the Pacquiao fight. But eh didnt, he didnt faze, no big signs of slowing down.
I think its not gonna happen now, but wont surprise me if it comes in the next few fights
I agree man. Is it just me or do you get the feeling that when he slows down it is going to be drastic?
 

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Experience

Marquez - He's fought the better opposition in my opinion, and has done very, very well against them despite being fucked over.



Casamayor fought Diego Corrales x3, Jose Luis Castillo, Areclino Frietas, Nate Campbell, Roberto Garcia and Michael Katsidis. That's a damn good resume.

This fight pits to of my favorite fighters. Casamayor is 37 and past his prime. But Marquez is 35 himself. He's no youngster. And I also feel he's out of his prime. Not only that, but I feel Marquez has moved up one division to many. I don't think he can hurt Casamayor. But I think Casamayor can hurt him. Casamayor by UD. A stoppage would not surprise me.
 

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Casamayor fought Diego Corrales x3, Jose Luis Castillo, Areclino Frietas, Nate Campbell, Roberto Garcia and Michael Katsidis. That's a damn good resume.

This fight pits to of my favorite fighters. Casamayor is 37 and past his prime. But Marquez is 35 himself. He's no youngster. And I also feel he's out of his prime. Not only that, but I feel Marquez has moved up one division to many. I don't think he can hurt Casamayor. But I think Casamayor can hurt him. Casamayor by UD. A stoppage would not surprise me.
IN terms of experience against big guys, Casamayor is the more experient.
 

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Just look at each guy's last fight. Totally different level of opposition, obviously Marquez being against the elite of the elite in Pacquiao and he fared very well, with many thinking he deserved the nod. Casamayor, on the other hand, struggled mightily with the rough brawler Katsidis before finally putting him away. That coming on the heels of a terrible showing against Santa Cruz that he should have lost. Gotta go with Marquez. I don't think his venturing up in weight this late in his career will prove costly.
 

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El Violento
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Just look at each guy's last fight. Totally different level of opposition, obviously Marquez being against the elite of the elite in Pacquiao and he fared very well, with many thinking he deserved the nod. Casamayor, on the other hand, struggled mightily with the rough brawler Katsidis before finally putting him away. That coming on the heels of a terrible showing against Santa Cruz that he should have lost. Gotta go with Marquez. I don't think his venturing up in weight this late in his career will prove costly.
Marquez was good puncher at Featherweight. Good not great. Now he's at Lightweight. And for the first time in his career facing a fighter naturally bigger than him. Yes he's fought at 130 before. But that was against fighters who like him moved up in weight. And even than he was having trouble hurting them and taking there punches. Casamayor has been at 135 for 4 years. He's war with big punchers like Corrales, Castillo, Katsidis and Freitas. I seriously doubt Marquez can hurt him. But I know Casamayor can hurt him.
 

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Marquez was good puncher at Featherweight. Good not great. Now he's at Lightweight. And for the first time in his career facing a fighter naturally bigger than him. Yes he's fought at 130 before. But that was against fighters who like him moved up in weight. And even than he was having trouble hurting them and taking there punches. Casamayor has been at 135 for 4 years. He's war with big punchers like Corrales, Castillo, Katsidis and Freitas. I seriously doubt Marquez can hurt him. But I know Casamayor can hurt him.
Valid argument for sure, but I don't think Marquez is going to stumble into counter shots like Katsidis did, so the threat level sinks dramatically.
 

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Marquez was good puncher at Featherweight. Good not great. Now he's at Lightweight. And for the first time in his career facing a fighter naturally bigger than him. Yes he's fought at 130 before. But that was against fighters who like him moved up in weight. And even than he was having trouble hurting them and taking there punches. Casamayor has been at 135 for 4 years. He's war with big punchers like Corrales, Castillo, Katsidis and Freitas. I seriously doubt Marquez can hurt him. But I know Casamayor can hurt him.
You're probably right, Casa might hurt him.. But Casa struggled with Katsidis and Santa Cruz, way too much for me. I think Marquez will box to a decision
 

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El Violento
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Valid argument for sure, but I don't think Marquez is going to stumble into counter shots like Katsidis did, so the threat level sinks dramatically.
You're probably right, Casa might hurt him.. But Casa struggled with Katsidis and Santa Cruz, way too much for me. I think Marquez will box to a decision
Casamayor is not some crude slugger who's just going to come forward. Even at his age he still posses good boxing skills. He's also a southpaw. Who loves to shoot the straight left. Marquez for all his defense talents has problems defending the straight left.
 

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You are right about the straigh left. Pacquiao caught Marquez with that shot multiple times. I just think that Marquez will land the best shots of the fight, round by round.

This is a much closer fight than the bookies have it. Last time I checked Marquez was a -330 favorite!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I agree for the most part, but I'm really worried that any fight now Marquez is going to slip a LOT. By "slip" I mean drastically drop off.
I'm not because til his last fight at feather when he started to get more offensive, he's been rarely hit. If he does fall off some, we'll notice because he's only been facing a real good opposition.
Casamayor fought Diego Corrales x3, Jose Luis Castillo, Areclino Frietas, Nate Campbell, Roberto Garcia and Michael Katsidis. That's a damn good resume.

This fight pits to of my favorite fighters. Casamayor is 37 and past his prime. But Marquez is 35 himself. He's no youngster. And I also feel he's out of his prime. Not only that, but I feel Marquez has moved up one division to many. I don't think he can hurt Casamayor. But I think Casamayor can hurt him. Casamayor by UD. A stoppage would not surprise me.
I agree with the experience that's why I had it as a toss up, plus he had like 400+ amateur fights.

If Marquez has moved up one division too many, I don't think Casa has enough left to exploit that. I think Marquez won't hurt him, but he'll be able to stun him and/or get his respect and that's all he needs, IMO.
Just look at each guy's last fight. Totally different level of opposition, obviously Marquez being against the elite of the elite in Pacquiao and he fared very well, with many thinking he deserved the nod. Casamayor, on the other hand, struggled mightily with the rough brawler Katsidis before finally putting him away. That coming on the heels of a terrible showing against Santa Cruz that he should have lost. Gotta go with Marquez. I don't think his venturing up in weight this late in his career will prove costly.
I agree with everything and think that as long as the Pacquiao rematch didn't take too much out of him, the difference in wear will show drastically in this fight.
You're probably right, Casa might hurt him.. But Casa struggled with Katsidis and Santa Cruz, way too much for me. I think Marquez will box to a decision
Too much for me too
 

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I'm not because til his last fight at feather when he started to get more offensive, he's been rarely hit. If he does fall off some, we'll notice because he's only been facing a real good opposition.


I agree with the experience that's why I had it as a toss up, plus he had like 400+ amateur fights.

If Marquez has moved up one division too many, I don't think Casa has enough left to exploit that. I think Marquez won't hurt him, but he'll be able to stun him and/or get his respect and that's all he needs, IMO.


I agree with everything and think that as long as the Pacquiao rematch didn't take too much out of him, the difference in wear will show drastically in this fight.


Too much for me too
Hi Hector. How you been? I think juan is going to win to.
 
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