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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Comparing Rocky Marciano with Muhummed Ali

If Rocky Marciano and Muhummed Ali in their prime could have fought each other. It think it would have made for a really great fight.

My thoughts about it are that it would have been a great boxer (Muhummed Ali) against a great puncher (Rocky Marciano).

Basically in boxing the strategy has always been that the boxer must box the puncher to win, and the puncher must punch the boxer to win.

Sometimes its the boxer who wins, and sometimes it the puncher who wins.

The fighters who boxers often have the most trouble with fighters who are punchers, and this was true as for Muhummed Ali. Fighters who give him the most trouble were punchers and as for Rocky Marciano he was perhaps the greatest puncher of them all.

If Muhummed could keep himself from being caught by Rocky on the ropes for 15 rounds and could score enough with the jab. I think Muhummed may would have got the decision and win the fight. But I do not think Muhammed would have been able to stay off the ropes for 15 rounds.

Especially, not in the way Rocky bulled his opponents, and always going forward and rarely to ever stop throwing punching, and never backing off always going forward and bulling his opponents and backing them up in the ring.

My perdiction would be that Rocky would have gotten him against the ropes and knocked Muhummed out in a late round.

JC
 

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NO way. sorry i disagree totaly. Muhammad Ali had everything that made a great boxer. He would have danced around a slow slugish rocky marciano and worked quick accurate combinations that would bounce of rockys head and chin. I see rocky in round 10 very slow and slugish but keep comig forward. Then the ref would have to step in from him taking any more damage. Ali by stoppage in 10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
tyson said:
He would have danced around a slow slugish rocky marciano ...
Rocky Marciano was not slow and sluggish.

Where did you get that idea at?

Rocky was a small heavyweight, he was five foot ten (some say he was five eleven). He was a short for a heavyweight, and the most he ever weighed in for a fight was a 189 pounds, and usually weighted in less than that.

Rocky was by far from being slow and sluggish.

If you watch his tapes of his fights you will not see a slow and sluggish Rocky Marciano.

Rocky was the most well-conditioned heavyweight fighter in the heavyweight division in his time. In fact, in the early 1950s many believed Rocky Marciano was the most well-conditioned athlete in the world.

JC
 

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JCC said:
Rocky Marciano was not slow and sluggish.

Where did you get that idea at?

Rocky was a small heavyweight, he was five foot ten (some say he was five eleven). He was a short for a heavyweight, and the most he ever weighed in for a fight was a 189 pounds, and usually weighted in less than that.

Rocky was by far from being slow and sluggish.

If you watch his tapes of his fights you will not see a slow and sluggish Rocky Marciano.

Rocky was the most well-conditioned heavyweight fighter in the heavyweight division in his time. In fact, in the early 1950s many believed Rocky Marciano was the most well-conditioned athlete in the world.

JCC
You are right...as usual.
 

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JCC. compareing him to ali he would be slow and after ali has out worked him he will become sluggish like any boxer would. I could see A cut opening on rockys eye making it even harder for him. Yes Ali was the greatest and would have won this fight. The only chance rocky would have had was landing a big shot. People seem to forget how good Alis chin was. Yes he went down from Copper and Frazier but notice how quickly he recovered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
tyson said:
JCC. compareing him to ali he would be slow and after ali has out worked him he will become sluggish like any boxer would.
Could it be that you say this only because Muhummed Ali was in your time, and Rocky Marciano wasn't and you saw Muhummed's fights and not Rocky's and your more familiar with Ali, than you are with Marciano that you say this?

The "experts" disagree on many things about Rocky Marciano, but the one thing upon which all seen to agree is this he was the most well-conditioned heavyweight fighter of all-time.

Rocky's brother LOUIS "SONNY" MARCIANO had said (2004) that people had often asked him why Rocky rarely clinched during a fight, and he said he'd tell them it's like the newspaperman Arthur Daley wrote in one of his columns praising Rocky; a clinch is for fighters who are either tired or hurt. The fighter who has the stamina to go the distance and hasn't been staggered has no need for clinches.

Sonny went on to further say: I was at every fight and I saw Rocky just keep on charging forward throwing punches, because the truth is he was never tired and never hurt enough to slow him down for more than a few seconds. In all of his fights Rocky was only knocked down twice, once by Jersey Joe Walcott and the other time by Archie Moore, and even then he was never badly hurt and was on the canvas for only a total of seven seconds. But the two biggest reasons that Rocky could never be beaten were his tremendous confidence and utter lack of fear.

I have what most would consider to be Rocky Marciano's greatest fight on two (two hour)video tapes. I've watched all those fights on tape and Rocky never clinched and rarely stopped throwing punches, and he always was going forward, and he never backed off in any fight he had ever had, and he bulled his opponents in every single round, and keep them going backwards always.

Just to note one fight in particular Rocky's first fight with Ezzard Charles which Rocky got the decision and that fight went the distance of 15 rounds, and he bulled Charles for 15 rounds.

You think Rocky in his prime would have been tired and sluggish going 15 rounds with Muhummed Ali?

It was be just the opposite that would likely happen.

It would be Ali who would be tired, slow and sluggish by the late rounds not Rocky.

In an Marciano-Ali fight you would see Rocky bulling Ali in every round, and you would see Ali going backwards in every round.

When fighter is forced to keep moving backwards in the ring he will tire faster, and the first thing that usually goes out first on a fighter is his legs.

I see Rocky getting Muhummed up against the ropes in a late round and knocking him out.

By the way, in Rocky's second fight with Charles that fight did not go the distance, and Rocky knocked Charles out in the eighth round.

In the Marciano-Ali computer fight, the computer picked Rocky the winner by taking out Muhummed in the thirteen round.

That's kind of how I see that fight would go too.

I see Rocky getting Muhummed up against the ropes and knocking Muhummed out in a late round.

tyson said:
I could see A cut opening on rockys eye making it even harder for him.
Of course, any thing can happen in a fight. If Ali could keep off the ropes for 15 rounds and score enough with his jab I think he may could get the decision.

Only, I can't see Ali being able to stay off the ropes for 15 rounds in a fight with Rocky Marciano.

The one place where a fighter doesn't want to be in a fight with Rocky is against the ropes because that's the place where Rocky is the most dangerous.

Of course, any thing can happen in fight. Its possible that Ali could get the win by the fight being stopped due to cuts in using his jab.

But you got to remember Rocky was an inside fighter who bulled his opponents and jabs aren't effective fighting on the inside.

For reasons of the way Rocky fought staying on the inside fighting the jab was never effective against him. Nobody ever beat Rocky he didn't lose any fights.

Rocky never lost any fights for reasons of stoppage due cuts.

On several historic occasions during Rocky's professional career he defied ringside doctors, referees, trainers, and especially the fighters that threatened to end his reign as the heavyweight king of the ring, and before the doctor or referee could stop the fight, Rocky would get out there and get the knockout.

Interesting, it wasn't just some times Rocky was able to do that. But every time that ever happened to him in a fight, he was able to do it.

Also I'd like to add that this is not the way that a fighter really likes to win fights any way, over a guy getting a cut eye or something like that.

Nobody really likes to win a fight that way, by reasons of stoppage due to a cut eyes or something like that.

Back when I was boxing in the amateur ranks, I know I would have never wanted to win a fight that way, for I really wouldn't have felt I had really beat the guy if I win a fight like that. I've never personally ever known a fighter to ever feel good over getting a win for reasons of a stoppage due to cuts.

Of course, fans perspective is very often different than fighters especially if they have never been fighter.

tyson said:
People seem to forget how good Alis chin was.
Ali could take a punch, and also he could be hit too, and Marciano could hit hard. I mean VERY hard.

This is why, I say Marciano would likely knock Ali out in a late round.

No way, Ali could hold up being bulled and punched with as many punches as Marciano threw in fights, and especially not as hard as Marciano could punch, he could hurt you with either hand, no matter where he hit you arms, shoulders or wherever he hit you.

tyson said:
Yes he went down from Copper and Frazier but notice how quickly he recovered.
That's true, but Henry Cooper was no Joe Fraizer or Rocky Marciano.

At best Henry Cooper was a club fighter, and he came very near knocking Ali out.

Also Rocky was stronger than Fraizer and a better puncher that Frazier.

Frazier's best weapon was his left hook, but Marciano had the big punch in both hands.

JC
 

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Rocky didn't have the fancy footwork, top-notch handspeed, and shuffling and dancing and flashiness of guys like Ali and Leonard... he was a brawler! But like Foreman... HE WAS A GOOD ONE! He has heart... will... strength... a great punch... a tough chin... and a never say die attitude! THAT'S WHY I LOVE BRAWLERS!:thumbsup:
 

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JCC said:
Could it be that you say this only because Muhummed Ali was in your time, and Rocky Marciano wasn't and you saw Muhummed's fights and not Rocky's and your more familiar with Ali, than you are with Marciano that you say this?

The "experts" disagree on many things about Rocky Marciano, but the one thing upon which all seen to agree is this he was the most well-conditioned heavyweight fighter of all-time.

Rocky's brother LOUIS "SONNY" MARCIANO had said (2004) that people had often asked him why Rocky rarely clinched during a fight, and he said he'd tell them it's like the newspaperman Arthur Daley wrote in one of his columns praising Rocky; a clinch is for fighters who are either tired or hurt. The fighter who has the stamina to go the distance and hasn't been staggered has no need for clinches.

Sonny went on to further say: I was at every fight and I saw Rocky just keep on charging forward throwing punches, because the truth is he was never tired and never hurt enough to slow him down for more than a few seconds. In all of his fights Rocky was only knocked down twice, once by Jersey Joe Walcott and the other time by Archie Moore, and even then he was never badly hurt and was on the canvas for only a total of seven seconds. But the two biggest reasons that Rocky could never be beaten were his tremendous confidence and utter lack of fear.

I have what most would consider to be Rocky Marciano's greatest fight on two (two hour)video tapes. I've watched all those fights on tape and Rocky never clinched and rarely stopped throwing punches, and he always was going forward, and he never backed off in any fight he had ever had, and he bulled his opponents in every single round, and keep them going backwards always.

Just to note one fight in particular Rocky's first fight with Ezzard Charles which Rocky got the decision and that fight went the distance of 15 rounds, and he bulled Charles for 15 rounds.

You think Rocky in his prime would have been tired and sluggish going 15 rounds with Muhummed Ali?

It was be just the opposite that would likely happen.

It would be Ali who would be tired, slow and sluggish by the late rounds not Rocky.

In an Marciano-Ali fight you would see Rocky bulling Ali in every round, and you would see Ali going backwards in every round.

When fighter is forced to keep moving backwards in the ring he will tire faster, and the first thing that usually goes out first on a fighter is his legs.

I see Rocky getting Muhummed up against the ropes in a late round and knocking him out.

By the way, in Rocky's second fight with Charles that fight did not go the distance, and Rocky knocked Charles out in the eighth round.

In the Marciano-Ali computer fight, the computer picked Rocky the winner by taking out Muhummed in the thirteen round.

That's kind of how I see that fight would go too.

I see Rocky getting Muhummed up against the ropes and knocking Muhummed out in a late round.



Of course, any thing can happen in a fight. If Ali could keep off the ropes for 15 rounds and score enough with his jab I think he may could get the decision.

Only, I can't see Ali being able to stay off the ropes for 15 rounds in a fight with Rocky Marciano.

The one place where a fighter doesn't want to be in a fight with Rocky is against the ropes because that's the place where Rocky is the most dangerous.

Of course, any thing can happen in fight. Its possible that Ali could get the win by the fight being stopped due to cuts in using his jab.

But you got to remember Rocky was an inside fighter who bulled his opponents and jabs aren't effective fighting on the inside.

For reasons of the way Rocky fought staying on the inside fighting the jab was never effective against him. Nobody ever beat Rocky he didn't lose any fights.

Rocky never lost any fights for reasons of stoppage due cuts.

On several historic occasions during Rocky's professional career he defied ringside doctors, referees, trainers, and especially the fighters that threatened to end his reign as the heavyweight king of the ring, and before the doctor or referee could stop the fight, Rocky would get out there and get the knockout.

Interesting, it wasn't just some times Rocky was able to do that. But every time that ever happened to him in a fight, he was able to do it.

Also I'd like to add that this is not the way that a fighter really likes to win fights any way, over a guy getting a cut eye or something like that.

Nobody really likes to win a fight that way, by reasons of stoppage due to a cut eyes or something like that.

Back when I was boxing in the amateur ranks, I know I would have never wanted to win a fight that way, for I really wouldn't have felt I had really beat the guy if I win a fight like that. I've never personally ever known a fighter to ever feel good over getting a win for reasons of a stoppage due to cuts.

Of course, fans perspective is very often different than fighters especially if they have never been fighter.



Ali could take a punch, and also he could be hit too, and Marciano could hit hard. I mean VERY hard.

This is why, I say Marciano would likely knock Ali out in a late round.

No way, Ali could hold up being bulled and punched with as many punches as Marciano threw in fights, and especially not as hard as Marciano could punch, he could hurt you with either hand, no matter where he hit you arms, shoulders or wherever he hit you.



That's true, but Henry Cooper was no Joe Fraizer or Rocky Marciano.

At best Henry Cooper was a club fighter, and he came very near knocking Ali out.

Also Rocky was stronger than Fraizer and a better puncher that Frazier.

Frazier's best weapon was his left hook, but Marciano had the big punch in both hands.

JC
I agree with everything you said, you covered everything I was going to mention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Rocky Marciano vs Sonny Liston

Since you all have come to be quiet for the moment any way over my comparison of Rocky Marciano with Muhummed Ali. I would to now like to compare Rocky with another heavyweight champion Sonny Liston.

If these two fighters were to have met and fought each other in their prime this is my perdiction as for how the fight would have gone.

I see Rocky bulling Liston around the ring just like Rocky had done to every other fighter he had ever fought.

I see Marciano couched, keeping his head low, and bobbing and weaving, and taking the offensive.

I see Marciano fighting in close as he always did, and coming up close and bringing his head up at Liston, which would keep Liston backing up in the ring through out the fight.

When a fighter is forced to go backwards in the ring a lot in a fight he will tire faster. The first thing that will usually go out on a fighter in the ring and when he gets really tired or has been staggered is his legs.

I see Marciano fighting in close neutraling Liston's jab and making it ineffective. Sonny had a good jab and I could see him trying to use it effectively against Marciano.

I see Rocky laying his head on Liston's chest and punching to the body.

I see Marciano bulling Liston around the ring just as Rocky had every other fighter he fought. In fact, Marciano did that to all his opponents in all his fights.

Sonny would have a near 20 pound or so weight advantage over Rocky, but it would not make for a greater strength in a fight with Marciano.

I see Marciano to be about to push and move Liston around the ring like Rocky did all his opponents that had had a weight advantage over Rocky.

Marciano was a small man for a heavyweight at five foot ten and to have weighed in at 180 plus pounds, and Rocky was a very strong guy, he never had any trouble moving bigger men of 200 or more pounds around the ring in his fights.

I see a heavy exchange of punches between Marciano and Liston for a few rounds, but Marciano's incrediable stamina and rarely ever to ever stop banging away at his opponents just as he would Liston would wear Sonny down, take away Sonny's heart and courage in the late rounds perhaps by the the tenth round, or near the ten round into the fight, if not sooner. I could see Marciano catching Liston with a really big punch, or possibly landing a conbination of punches in which some would have been solid punches and Liston would go down. Maybe Sonny would get back up, or maybe he would not. But if Liston did get back up, the next time he was knocked down the fight would be over. I see Rocky Marciano the winner by a knockout in the tenth round.

.......................................

Further note:

The strangest and most surprising fights I have ever seen since the sixties were the Liston-Clay fights. I saw those fights live, and the tapes of the first fight and also the rematch many times since.

Now if that were the Sonny Liston that were to have fought Rocky Marciano?

I could see Marciano getting the win over Liston by an early round knockout.

JC
 

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OKAY... Could some boxing brain out there please explain to all of us what would happen if Rocky Marciano took on Jack Dempsey? I say this because I really do feel as though both men were about as close to be as tough as each other as possible:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
White Tyson said:
Could some boxing brain out there please explain to all of us what would happen if Rocky Marciano took on Jack Dempsey?
Glad you brought that up! But your guess would be as good as any body elses. What do you to you think would happen in a Marciano-Dempsey fight?

JC
 

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This is the hardest one to call!!! I am clueless! All I can say is it would be "THE GREATEST" HEAVYWEIGHT FIGHT IN HISTORY!!!
 

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bill1234 said:
This is the hardest one to call!!! I am clueless! All I can say is it would be "THE GREATEST" HEAVYWEIGHT FIGHT IN HISTORY!!!
They wouldn't be as quick or as flashy or as good an athlete as Muhammad Ali though... but it would still be a hell of an entertaining fight!!!
 

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Hard to call. The only thing I can say is Demsey had to hit people with a combination of punches to finish them off... Rocky could do it with one punch.

Jess Willard took a terrible beating from Dempsey but kept getting back up. I don't think that would have been the case in a Willard vs Rocky match - rocky would have hit Willard with ihs Suzie - Q once and it would have been over.

So Racky hits harder, but Dempsey could also take a good punch. It would be a war from start to finish, banging away on each other until one finally gives up. The only trouble is neither one would have given up lol

I think Rocky gets a UD after 15.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Jack Dempsey was a very hard puncher, and he may had punched as hard, or very near as hard as Rocky Marciano. Dempsey's punches had broke Jess Willards ribs and cheek bones.

As I thought about that I had also remembered that in Marciano's fight with Roland LaStarza. I'm talking about the second fight their last fight.

Of course, Marciano won the fight.

But what I remembered was that after the fight when LaStarza was examined by Dr. Nardiello, it was discovered that Marciano's punches had broken blood vessels and damaged bones in his arms.

In the eleventh round LaStarza was unable to raise his arms.

If referee Rudy Goldstein had not stopped the fight its possible that LaStarza might have been killed in that fight.

That may well could have happened if the fight had not been stopped.

LaStarza had been knocked down in the eleventh round, he was on his knee at the count of five, and almost unbelievably he staggered up at nine --- dazed, hurt and defenseless, yet willing to continue, unable to accept defeat.

Hey, Roland LaStarza was a hellavua fighter, and may well had been the best defensive fighter in the heavyweight division at that time. LaStarza was a real tough guy.

Well, Marciano got back on him in that round, and LaStarza was almost unconscious, but he remained on his feet and he would not go down.

Then, midway through the round, Goldstein very wisely stepped in between Marciano and LaStarza and stopped the fight.

If Goldstein had not have stopped the fight at the moment in which he did. I believe its possible that LaStarza may have been killed in the fight, if he had taken many more punches, and maybe it would not have taken many more either.

I've talked about this only to just draw attention to both Dempsey's and Marciano's punching power.

Its very hard for me to imagine how this fight could go.

But I can't see the fight going 15 rounds.

I see the fight being stopped due to cuts or injuries either to Dempsey or to Marciano. I see it as being a very bloody fight.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ROCKY MARCIANO vs GEORGE FOREMAN

What do you think would happen in a Marciano-Foreman fight? That is, if they both had fought each other in their prime.

JC
 

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JCC said:
What do you think would happen in a Marciano-Foreman fight? That is, if they both had fought each other in their prime.

JC
I think Foreman would keeep Marciano away, maybe knock him down a couple times for a about 3 rounds, than Marciano would get his way with Foreman and KO him around rounds 7-12
 

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ive just watched a marciano dvd and ill tell you this he should not have been awarded the win against roland la starza, roland owned rocky in this fight both brutalizing and outboxing him, rocky did put him down breifly but a blind man could see he never won the fight. holmes and stinxs springs to mind here, another terible decision here, rocky's involvment with the mob must have swayed the judging in this one!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Rocky Marciano VS George Foreman

Both Rocky Marciano and George Foreman had the big punch and were knockout artists. Though both were knockout artists with Foreman ranking # 2 in knockout percentage and Marciano ranking # 1. I tend to think stamina may would be the key in determining who would be the winner. Foreman who was beaten by an aging Muhummed Ali, became like Mike Tyson, he would get tired after five rounds. If Ali could knockout Foreman, I have to believe Marciano could.

My perdiction would be that Rocky Marciano would be the winner by a knockout, by taking George Foreman out in the eighth or ninth round.

JC
 
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