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  • James Toney

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • Roy Jones Junior

    Votes: 17 65.4%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Former IBF middleweight, IBF super middleweight, WBO light heavyweight, IBO and IBF cruiserweight, WBA and WBC heavywegiht champion James Toney vs Former Ibf middlweight, Ibf super middleweight, WBF WBC IBF IBO WBA WBC IBA NBA Light heavyweight, WBA heavyweight champion Roy Jones Juniour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
also both made professional debuts months apart and there's only around 5months difference in age between them
 

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The Professor
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Gotta go with James Toney, as he was the more accomplished fighter at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight, and Heavyweight. He has also never been KOed and is still able to compete with the best out there, where Roy has not been able to do this in 5 years. If Roy retired after the Ruiz fight he would have ended up rated higher in history, a case would have even been made for him as greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. But then he became over the hill, and instead of a gradual decline he basically turned into a shot fighter over night. No meaningful success past his prime ruined him. Can't rate a career on prime status alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Gotta go with James Toney, as he was the more accomplished fighter at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight, and Heavyweight. He has also never been KOed and is still able to compete with the best out there, where Roy has not been able to do this in 5 years. If Roy retired after the Ruiz fight he would have ended up rated higher in history, a case would have even been made for him as greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. But then he became over the hill, and instead of a gradual decline he basically turned into a shot fighter over night. No meaningful success past his prime ruined him. Can't rate a career on prime status alone.
another thing is Toneys never looked completely dominated like Roy has by Glenn Johnson and Joe Calzaghe, even against Roy everytime Roy got close and dropped his hands he got caught with a massive bomb, fight was not a domination because Roy didn't win every round also that Toney was never hurt and held his own the whole fight
 

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Calvarez
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Jones easily. P4P one of the best for a decade, and the first man in 106 years to go from midddleweight to heavyweight. Then when you consider his awesome skills, it's no contest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Jones easily. P4P one of the best for a decade, and the first man in 106 years to go from midddleweight to heavyweight. Then when you consider his awesome skills, it's no contest.
Toney went from middleweight to heavyweight aswell? Also Toney actually competes reguarly with the best heavyweights out there and didn't go there just to win an alphabelt title, he's actually attempting to prove he's the best heavyweight out there
 

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The Professor
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They took Toney's Heavyweight Championship away but he still won it, and I have faith he will win it again. Anyhow, for a fighter to have looked as great in the ring as Roy did, it's odd that his level of competition was never as good as Toney's. I don't want to say Roy was never interested in fighting the best available, but he'd let opportunities go by that Toney never did.
 

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Roy was the better cheat of the two. :D
 

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This thread looks SOoooooooo funny.

Question.

Which of the following cars has the greater legacy;

The E type jaguar?

or

The Ford Capri ?


Capri surely
:laugh:
 

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Although Roy was the P4P best for such a long time and light years above and beyond pretty much everyone he fought, Toney's legacy means more to me. Yes, Roy won their head to head meeting, but aside from that win and the ones over Hopkins and Virgil Hill, there aren't really any others that stand the test of time for me. His opponents never had a chance which was due in large part to his greatness and virtuosity, but it can't be forgotten that they weren't exactly worldbeaters. Moving up to heavyweight was a landmark achievement and I'll give him credit for it, but Ruiz was the least impressive (and least threatening) paper champion he could have picked out. The fact that he didn't retire after that fight does damage my memories of him. The things that damage Toney's legacy in my view are what I saw as a loss versus Dave Tiberi and his testing positive for banned substances on two occasions. Toney probably lost the fight against Rahman and I thought he won the first fight with Peter. The numbers don't lie, though. Toney 81 fights, Jones 57. Toney 70 wins, Jones 52. Toney six losses, Jones five. Toney never knocked out, Jones KOed twice in devastating fashion. Toney has only been soundly beaten on one or two occasions, but has never really been hurt. Toney was middleweight champ with six successful title defenses, while Jones only defended his middleweight title one time. Toney moved up to super middleweight and defended his title three times before losing it to Jones, who defended it five times. Toney won a cruiserweight title, something Jones never did. Jones definitely has the edge in light heavyweight where he defended his titles 11 times. While Jones was beating Ruiz in a huge spectacle, Toney turned in the more impressive performance in my view thoroughly breaking down and stopping the still dangerous Evander Holyfield. Despite the no contest ruling, history should view Toney as heavyweight champ after beating Ruiz. For Jones, nothing after the Ruiz fight is worth writing home about. After all those rounds, Toney is still a legit contender at heavyweight, whereas Jones' venture to HW probably decimated his career and he is now washed up. Jones goes out very ungracefully after getting dominated by Calzaghe, but with a win over Tony Thompson, Toney can put himself right back in the title picture in a wide open division. Toney is a four division champion, Jones is also, but Toney has a more impressive résumé at middleweight and heavyweight and overall, he fought the better opposition.
 

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Maybe the question is inherently unfair?

For all we know James Toney might be getting beat, sorry I mean fighting in 25 years time.

I mean some people (I'm not saying me) might say he is useless now and always has been, BUT how do we know how truly useless he will be if he is still fighting 25 years from now?

We all have to give Toney the chance to show us what he is still capable of be that ill-discipline, steroid abuse, smoking dope pre fight, getting beat by average fighters or something good......we have to be fair to him afterall haha

We must give him the chance to fail further before passing a greater level of critical thinking upon his record.
 

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Gotta go with James Toney, as he was the more accomplished fighter at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight, and Heavyweight. He has also never been KOed and is still able to compete with the best out there, where Roy has not been able to do this in 5 years. If Roy retired after the Ruiz fight he would have ended up rated higher in history, a case would have even been made for him as greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. But then he became over the hill, and instead of a gradual decline he basically turned into a shot fighter over night. No meaningful success past his prime ruined him. Can't rate a career on prime status alone.
Yeah I see what you mean :thumbsup:, and I'm a minority in this forum in saying that I'm a fan of James Toney. I just like his slick style of fighting and his trash talking (while backing it up). Yeah he's a couple of whoppers of being morbid obese, but he's still a HOF fighter IMO. But I had to go with RJ on this one. He reigned over boxing for almost a decade and that's a rarity in itself. Could RJ fight bouts with higher competition...yes, but I don't think that it prevents him from having a worse legacy than Toney. RJ and Toney almost have the exact same resume next to Toney's cruiserweight title and RJ's being the P4P king for so long. But I give the nod to RJ.
 

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Although Roy was the P4P best for such a long time and light years above and beyond pretty much everyone he fought, Toney's legacy means more to me. Yes, Roy won their head to head meeting, but aside from that win and the ones over Hopkins and Virgil Hill, there aren't really any others that stand the test of time for me. His opponents never had a chance which was due in large part to his greatness and virtuosity, but it can't be forgotten that they weren't exactly worldbeaters. Moving up to heavyweight was a landmark achievement and I'll give him credit for it, but Ruiz was the least impressive (and least threatening) paper champion he could have picked out. The fact that he didn't retire after that fight does damage my memories of him. The things that damage Toney's legacy in my view are what I saw as a loss versus Dave Tiberi and his testing positive for banned substances on two occasions. Toney probably lost the fight against Rahman and I thought he won the first fight with Peter. The numbers don't lie, though. Toney 81 fights, Jones 57. Toney 70 wins, Jones 52. Toney six losses, Jones five. Toney never knocked out, Jones KOed twice in devastating fashion. Toney has only been soundly beaten on one or two occasions, but has never really been hurt. Toney was middleweight champ with six successful title defenses, while Jones only defended his middleweight title one time. Toney moved up to super middleweight and defended his title three times before losing it to Jones, who defended it five times. Toney won a cruiserweight title, something Jones never did. Jones definitely has the edge in light heavyweight where he defended his titles 11 times. While Jones was beating Ruiz in a huge spectacle, Toney turned in the more impressive performance in my view thoroughly breaking down and stopping the still dangerous Evander Holyfield. Despite the no contest ruling, history should view Toney as heavyweight champ after beating Ruiz. For Jones, nothing after the Ruiz fight is worth writing home about. After all those rounds, Toney is still a legit contender at heavyweight, whereas Jones' venture to HW probably decimated his career and he is now washed up. Jones goes out very ungracefully after getting dominated by Calzaghe, but with a win over Tony Thompson, Toney can put himself right back in the title picture in a wide open division. Toney is a four division champion, Jones is also, but Toney has a more impressive résumé at middleweight and heavyweight and overall, he fought the better opposition.
Great post, I see your point :thumbsup:
 

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Calzaghefella,
I see you being facetious and i guess you can, if that works for you.

Truthfully, James Toney's legacy is better than Roy's.

NOt only did James truly know how to box, not only did he fight a higher degree of competition, he also fought with tremendous technique and skill.

Roy had talent, but now that the talent is gone, he can be caught. I think the one thing that showed in his fight with Joe C, is that now that his speed is gone, he is not a very tecnically proficient fighter. Yes, he was p4p, but in that time, he avoided a lot of challengers, challenger's that deserved their shot.

Same as Joe C. So, for the same reason that i can't really give props to joe c, i can't to roy.

James Toney is truly the greatest boxer of the last 25 years.
 

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Maybe the question is inherently unfair?

For all we know James Toney might be getting beat, sorry I mean fighting in 25 years time.

I mean some people (I'm not saying me) might say he is useless now and always has been, BUT how do we know how truly useless he will be if he is still fighting 25 years from now?

We all have to give Toney the chance to show us what he is still capable of be that ill-discipline, steroid abuse, smoking dope pre fight, getting beat by average fighters or something good......we have to be fair to him afterall haha

We must give him the chance to fail further before passing a greater level of critical thinking upon his record.
70-6-4, 1 NC (43 KOs), former MW champion, former SMW champion, former crusierweight champ, and could've been a heavyweight champ (if it wasn't for his medication showing up as steroids). Not to forget he played as Joe Frazier in the great movie "Ali". This guy is a HOF without a doubt...so no we don't have to give him a chance because he's an already PROVEN fighter to most people's eyes. I mean this is the same guy who fought Hasim Rahman (in his prime) with the flu and still came out with a tie. Yeah this guy is far from being perfect in the discipline and diet dept but he's still better than a whole lot of fighters out here, and he's still the in the top 10 among HWs. So no this guy is far from being a man below average or past his prime or whatever you're trying to insinuate. This guy has HOF status written all over him.
 

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aka Dr. Real
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Gotta go with James Toney, as he was the more accomplished fighter at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight, and Heavyweight. He has also never been KOed and is still able to compete with the best out there, where Roy has not been able to do this in 5 years. If Roy retired after the Ruiz fight he would have ended up rated higher in history, a case would have even been made for him as greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. But then he became over the hill, and instead of a gradual decline he basically turned into a shot fighter over night. No meaningful success past his prime ruined him. Can't rate a career on prime status alone.
Roy Jones's post-Ruiz form will not degrade his legacy. All greats come to an end and that's apart of boxing. Survival of the fittest. No great is immortal. And it seems to me that you based your decision through a big dose of longevity which is only partial of the package of being a better fighter. RJ's prime status wasn't a flash in the pan...it was 9-10 years so in this case we can base this decision just on prime status alone and also with the fact that he beat credible names with relative ease, he beat up people to his own soundtrack, his athleticism, and his original style (that everyone tries to emulate but only shows a poor duplicate), and his world title wins from MW-HW and THEN back to LHW. Only two people have done that in history and only 1 of them are in the 21st century...that is no other than ROY JONES JR. James Toney didn't TECHNICALLY win the HW title though...I mean we all know he can beat Ruiz in his sleep but he won the title based on the fact that he didn't test positive for a banned substance. If that was known before hand he wouldn't have fought so when you say they stripped him...he shouldn't have had the title in the first place. And that's coming from a huge James Toney fan.

Jones easily. P4P one of the best for a decade, and the first man in 106 years to go from midddleweight to heavyweight. Then when you consider his awesome skills, it's no contest.
Yep :thumbsup:

Toney went from middleweight to heavyweight aswell? Also Toney actually competes reguarly with the best heavyweights out there and didn't go there just to win an alphabelt title, he's actually attempting to prove he's the best heavyweight out there
But James Toney is a natural HW. Roy Jones is a natural LHW. Besides we all know he has no choice but to fight heavies because he doesn't want to train as hard to get to Cruiserweight or to LHW.

They took Toney's Heavyweight Championship away but he still won it, and I have faith he will win it again. Anyhow, for a fighter to have looked as great in the ring as Roy did, it's odd that his level of competition was never as good as Toney's. I don't want to say Roy was never interested in fighting the best available, but he'd let opportunities go by that Toney never did.
He will get a HW title but he technically didn't win one since he had a banned substance. None of us know why RJ never fought the "best". Roy had a 7 figure contract on the table at one time and the only person that was willing to sign it was Bernard Hopkins...no else, not Steve Collins, not Nigel Benn, not James Toney. Roy is only one man...it takes two to get a fight on. But you're right, James Toney ducks no one.

Roy was the better cheat of the two. :D
:laugh: Funny...that was a good one...but at least they are both legends...SOME ONE can't say that. ;)
 

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aka Dr. Real
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Calzaghefella,
I see you being facetious and i guess you can, if that works for you.

Truthfully, James Toney's legacy is better than Roy's.

NOt only did James truly know how to box, not only did he fight a higher degree of competition, he also fought with tremendous technique and skill.

Roy had talent, but now that the talent is gone, he can be caught. I think the one thing that showed in his fight with Joe C, is that now that his speed is gone, he is not a very tecnically proficient fighter. Yes, he was p4p, but in that time, he avoided a lot of challengers, challenger's that deserved their shot.

Same as Joe C. So, for the same reason that i can't really give props to joe c, i can't to roy.

James Toney is truly the greatest boxer of the last 25 years.
You have to be careful with your words...Roy "avoided" no one. It takes two to get a fight off...not just Roy Jones Jr. :thumbsup:
 

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Calvarez
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Toney went from middleweight to heavyweight aswell? Also Toney actually competes reguarly with the best heavyweights out there and didn't go there just to win an alphabelt title, he's actually attempting to prove he's the best heavyweight out there
Couldn't do what Jones did.

They took Toney's Heavyweight Championship away but he still won it, and I have faith he will win it again. Anyhow, for a fighter to have looked as great in the ring as Roy did, it's odd that his level of competition was never as good as Toney's. I don't want to say Roy was never interested in fighting the best available, but he'd let opportunities go by that Toney never did.
With help :laugh:.

Roid jones a cheat!! how dare you!lmao:laugh::laugh:
:laugh:
 
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