yes im sure briggs and golota would agree with you.JohnnyBigBallz said:I hate to disagree with both of you but I think Lennox was a sub-par Champion. All of the big names he defeated, Tyson, Ruddock, Morrison were all past their prime (including Holyfield and Mercer who he barely beat even as they were on their way out, Mercer by only a single point after Holyfield had dominated him just the past year). Whenever he stepped up, and baby steps mind you, he got beat McCall, Rahman, and frankly Vitali in their first fight. He was a good fighter but benefited from the weakest Heavyweight division I think in recent decades, significantly worse than even the past couple years. Top contenders around now like James Toney and Sam Peter are a lot better than those Lennox faced like Micahel Grant and Francois Botha. The two times Lennox did face a tough challenge as Champ he was knocked out once and beaten on points before the fight was stopped. No where near a Top Ten Heavy in history, I think.
tommygunn said:lewis is one of the best ever no doubt, he beat every fighter he ever fought and retired as hw champ and had a jab to rival holmes.
lewis and joe louis are prob the 2 most complete hw of all time, lewis would have beaten marciano, frazier, liston, norton, foreman and holmes and these guy's are on everybodys list.
JohnnyBigBallz said:I hate to disagree with both of you but I think Lennox was a sub-par Champion. All of the big names he defeated, Tyson, Ruddock, Morrison were all past their prime (including Holyfield and Mercer who he barely beat even as they were on their way out, Mercer by only a single point after Holyfield had dominated him just the past year). Whenever he stepped up, and baby steps mind you, he got beat McCall, Rahman, and frankly Vitali in their first fight. He was a good fighter but benefited from the weakest Heavyweight division I think in recent decades, significantly worse than even the past couple years. Top contenders around now like James Toney and Sam Peter are a lot better than those Lennox faced like Micahel Grant and Francois Botha. The two times Lennox did face a tough challenge as Champ he was knocked out once and beaten on points before the fight was stopped. No where near a Top Ten Heavy in history, I think.
bill1234 said:His jab did not rival Holmes, Holmes's jab was in a league of its own. The only person who had a jab that was very close to Holmes's jab was Ali/Clay. Lewis had a glass jaw and you can't say that he had a jaw like Liston. Holmes would take him, Frazier would take him, so would Marciano, Liston, Norton, and Foreman. Holmes had decent power too. Lewis was one of the top 20 heavyweights ever, not top 10. Lewis is one of my favorite fighters too, but you can't exagerate him that much.
bill1234 said:Ali has taken extreme punishment from lots of people, when Lewis would have been KO'd. Same with Holmes, he took a tremendous about of punishment before and got up to win, where Lewis would have been KO'd. Like the biggest right hand Shavers has ever thrown that landed fluch on Holmes jaw, Holmes got up on the count of 5. Holmes was down against Snipes by a flash knockdown, Holmes was down against Tyson 3 times was up on the count of 6, 4, and then got his tangled in the ropes when Tyson dropped him the 3rd time in the final 10 seconds of the 4th round, the ref stopped it. Holmes was down a total of 4 times in his career, not including the bad call when he fought butterbean. You also have to remember that Holmes and Ali had more fights than Lewis too.
bill1234 said:No, Holmes didn't. I'm just saying his jaw wasn't exactly like Marciano's, or Holmes's, or Ali's or any of them, he had a questionable jaw.
slick said:the man lost to two fighters, both of which were beaten in rematches. Criticize his era as much as you like, given what he had to face he couldnt do much more than he did. He is one of the greatest.