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Did a post on Manny Pacquiao, with emphasis on all roads leading to
Manny moving up in weight. Such would giving the Filipino boxer
a shot at a fourth world title in different divisions.

I'm all out for Manny! But after seeing his last fight, i have a
concern - his speed. I fear that a further move up will make
Manny Pacquiao slow, flatfooted,and predictable.

I hope I'm wrong on this one.

But I guess everything remains to be seen. What do you think?


*my post here, friends. could be an interesting read, everyone.


:)
 

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Pac can and will lose at a higher weight. And he will lose to Marquez in a rematch.
 

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some feel he already lost the rematch with marquez. i think pac gets by david diaz, who should provide him a very stern test. i honestly don't think he beats any other current title holder at 135lbs.
 

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Pac can and will lose at a higher weight. And he will lose to Marquez in a rematch.
I'll give you he will lose at the higher weight but I don't see him losing to Marquez if there is a rematch. If there is one and he loses God forbid theres a Pacquiao vs Marquez 4. Thats just milking it.
 

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some feel he already lost the rematch with marquez. i think pac gets by david diaz, who should provide him a very stern test. i honestly don't think he beats any other current title holder at 135lbs.
I think he lost it too. And I dont know about him beating Diaz so much.

I'll give you he will lose at the higher weight but I don't see him losing to Marquez if there is a rematch. If there is one and he loses God forbid theres a Pacquiao vs Marquez 4. Thats just milking it.
I see him lossing to him and I hope it will be a 4th fight. Its not milking it. They are all just that close.
 

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Don't get me wrong I would watch a 4th fight between them but after a great trilogy I'm ready to move on.
But if you only have 3 fights and they both win 1 and draw the other then there is no winner so you have to have a 4th even if its late in there careers.
 

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No he won't. He'll rightfully lose again but be awarded the win because of his name and fame and Marquez' lack thereof.
You know what you are absolutly right. I stand corrected. :laugh:
 

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Pac Man will do well. He is a bit one-dimensional. He can work on that. If he listens to Roach, he will win fights. A lot by knockout.
 

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I'd say the Pacman wraps his career up at 135... MAYBE 140 or a catchweight if Arum and Roach agree on an opponent that would suit him stylisically (Hatton).

There are several other variables to consider if Pac (or any fighter) were to go up in weight:

POWER - With an extra 2 onces of padding on the glove and him bangin' on naturally heavier guys, his pop may deteriorate (at least a bit). However these were the same thoughts I had about him when he was jumping from 122 to 126 to 130… With the Pacman seemingly reaching physical maturity, his pop always seemed to come with him as he grew into heavier divisions... That being said I think his pop remains solid, but not as devastating it was at 130 and below.

CHIN - As mentioned earlier, he'd be bangin' on heavier guys but he'd also be taking heavier shots. Although Pacman's defense has improved he's still no Whitaker or Mayweather. His chin always seemed to have been solid but he has been rocked in the past by smaller guys so it'd be interesting how it holds up. With his tendency to fight and absorb blows to give some back may be a bit more risky in the heavier divisions.

SPEED - His explosive speed combined with his power at 130 and below assisted him being the wrecking force he is. In his 2nd fight with Marquez he came into the ring 16lbs or so heavier than the weigh in. Draining yourself that much and putting back that amount of weight has GOT to be draining! I wouldn't be surprised it may have hindered his performance... At 135 I’d think his speed slightly drops but stays faster and more explosive than your average 135er as long as he gains NO MORE than 10lbs on fight night… if that were the case I’d think he'd be around the same speed he was in his last fight with Marquez, if not faster because he’d be in the ring at the same weight he was that night without draining himself out an extra 5lbs.

LIFESTYLE - In an interview in the Philippines Manny stated that he's a "changed man" and gave up his hard partying lifestyle and other interests that most definitely distracted him from being the ruthless little tiger that got him to his superstar status today. Hopefully the damage isn't already done and his rededication to boxing prolongs his career a few more.

GENERAL WEAR AND TEAR - Throughout most of Manny career he’s been contempt with taking a shot to give a few and has been in some unforgettable wars. With a style like that in around 50 fights I wonder how much he’d have in him... There have been few fighters like Bernard Hopkins that have made the transition from hard punching slugger to cagey slick boxer. Even with Roach helping to add better defense and boxing skills to his fighter, I’d still think Manny would remain a fighter at heart and be more willing get himself involved in wars if the opportunity arises. But with new dimensions added to his game, it can help preserve his career in the long run. I always thought of the body like a rock… the more you hit it, the more it deteriorates… although, there are some rocks harder than others…

With all the said I think David Diaz is a perfect test for Manny at 135.

I'd say Pacman takes a rubbermatch with Marquez decisively at 135 when considering the factors stated below:

SIZE – Marquez seems to too have just recently built himself into a solid 130lb fighter. It seems that the Pacman is outgrowing that division and growing into 135, especially when you take into consideration how much weight he sheds off and puts in between the weigh in and fight night. I still think Marquez would retain his sharp counter-punching style, I would still assume Pac would be more comfortable, stronger and energetic.

AGE – Marquez really didn’t seem to show the effects of age during the last fight, but with time passing and the rematch nowhere in the near future, especially with David Diaz on Manny’s schedule, you have to consider how much is left in those 35 year old or so legs by the time he’s in there with Pac.

MOMENTUM – Manny jumped right into a rematch with Marquez after an uninspiring 2007. I thought he would’ve taken a tune-up to help refocus before taking on such a difficult opponent. With his rededication to boxing and the controversy that surrounded his win over Marquez, I think it only serves as fuel for the Pacman and the focus from the last training camp will provide him with momentum to feed off.

Things that I think could be improved:

THE RIGHT HAND – Although Marquez most likely had something to do with it, Manny’s right hand was under utilized when compared to other fights (Morales 2 & 3). The primary weapon for the southpaw against an orthodox fighter will always be his straight left, but having a right hand to keep Marquez wary would definitely help and even set up his straight left. I’m sure Roach knows it, and the previous fight would help provide some sort of blue print on how to utilize it better.

FOOTWORK – Circling to the right and keeping the right foot on the outside of the opponents left foot! BASIC southpaw boxing! I thought the cerebral Roach had some sort of game plan and to NOT do so as often so that his fighter wouldn’t be so predictable. But it turns out, that’s what he wanted, BASIC southpaw boxing and circling to his right/opponents left!

BODYWORK – Wear down the body to eventually wear down the head (Morales 2). Easier said than done against such a good counter puncher like Marquez.

PACE – If Pacman would be able to keep the high energy, explosive pace up we’re used to seeing I think it would force Marquez to fight more bring him into Pacman’s element. As Emmanuel Steward quoted, “When he’s in his in-&-out, side-to-side, Mike Tyson-like movement he’s winning the fight and his rhythm frustrates Marquez.” The more consistent he is with that funky little rythm of his, the more succesful he is at winning the fight!

Sorry for the long post, but as the original poster said, “Everything remains to be seen.”

Thanks.
 

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I'd say the Pacman wraps his career up at 135... MAYBE 140 or a catchweight if Arum and Roach agree on an opponent that would suit him stylisically (Hatton).

There are several other variables to consider if Pac (or any fighter were to go up in weight):

POWER - With an extra 2 onces of padding on the glove and him bangin' on naturally heavier guys, his pop may deteriorate (at least a bit). However these were the same thoughts I had about him when he was jumping from 122 to 126 to 130… With the Pacman seemingly reaching physical maturity, his pop always seemed to come with him as he grew into heavier divisions... That being said I think his pop remains solid, but not as devastating it was at 130 and below.

CHIN - As mentioned earlier, he'd be bangin' on heavier guys but he'd also be taking heavier shots. Although Pacman's defense has improved he's still no Whitaker or Mayweather. His chin always seemed to have been solid but he has been rocked in the past by smaller guys so it'd be interesting how it holds up. With his tendency to fight and absorb blows to give some back may be a bit more risky in the heavier divisions.

SPEED - His explosive speed combined with his power at 130 and below assisted him being the wrecking force he is. In his 2nd fight with Marquez he came into the ring 16lbs or so heavier than the weigh in. Draining yourself that much and putting back that amount of weight has GOT to be draining! I wouldn't be surprised it may have hindered his performance... At 135 I’d think his speed slightly drops but stays faster and more explosive than your average 135er as long as he gains NO MORE than 10lbs on fight night… if that were the case I’d think he'd be around the same speed he was in his last fight with Marquez, if not faster because he’d be in the ring at the same weight he was that night without draining himself out an extra 5lbs.

LIFESTYLE - In an interview in the Philippines Manny stated that he's a "changed man" and gave up his hard partying lifestyle and other interests that most definitely distracted him from being the ruthless little tiger that got him to his superstar status today. Hopefully the damage isn't already done and his rededication to boxing prolongs his career a few more.

GENERAL WEAR AND TEAR - Throughout most of Manny career he’s been contempt with taking a shot to give a few and has been in some unforgettable wars. With a style like that in around 50 fights I wonder how much he’d have in him... There have been few fighters like Bernard Hopkins that have made the transition from hard punching slugger to cagey slick boxer. Even with Roach helping to add better defense and boxing skills to his fighter, I’d still think Manny would remain a fighter at heart and be more willing get himself involved in wars if the opportunity arises. But with new dimensions added to his game, it can help preserve his career in the long run. I always thought of the body like a rock… the more you hit it, the more it deteriorates… although, there are some rocks harder than others…

With all the said I think David Diaz is a perfect test for Manny at 135.

I'd say Pacman takes a rubbermatch with Marquez decisively at 135 when considering the factors stated below:

SIZE – Marquez seems to too have just recently built himself into a solid 130lb fighter. It seems that the Pacman is outgrowing that division and growing into 135, especially when you take into consideration how much weight he sheds off and puts in between the weigh in and fight night. I still think Marquez would retain his sharp counter-punching style, I would still assume Pac would be more comfortable, stronger and energetic.

AGE – Marquez really didn’t seem to show the effects of age during the last fight, but with time passing and the rematch nowhere in the near future, especially with David Diaz on Manny’s schedule, you have to consider how much is left in those 35 year old or so legs by the time he’s in there with Pac.

MOMENTUM – Manny jumped right into a rematch with Marquez after an uninspiring 2007. I thought he would’ve taken a tune-up to help refocus before taking on such a difficult opponent. With his rededication to boxing and the controversy that surrounded his win over Marquez, I think it only serves as fuel for the Pacman and the focus from the last training camp will provide him with momentum to feed off.

Things that I think could be improved:

THE RIGHT HAND – Although Marquez most likely had something to do with it, Manny’s right hand was under utilized when compared to other fights (Morales 2 & 3). The primary weapon for the southpaw against an orthodox fighter will always be his straight left, but having a right hand to keep Marquez wary would definitely help and even set up his straight left. I’m sure Roach knows it, and the previous fight would help provide some sort of blue print on how to utilize it better.

FOOTWORK – Circling to the right and keeping the right foot on the outside of the opponents left foot! BASIC southpaw boxing! I thought the cerebral Roach had some sort of game plan and to NOT do so as often so that his fighter wouldn’t be so predictable. But it turns out, that’s what he wanted, BASIC southpaw boxing and circling to his right/opponents left!

BODYWORK – Wear down the body to eventually wear down the head (Morales 2). Easier said than done against such a good counter puncher like Marquez.

PACE – If Pacman would be able to keep the high energy, explosive pace up we’re used to seeing I think it would force Marquez to fight more bring him into Pacman’s element. As Emmanuel Steward quoted, “When he’s in his in-&-out, side-to-side, Mike Tyson-like movement he’s winning the fight and his rhythm frustrates Marquez.”

Sorry for the long post, as the original poster said, “Everything remains to be seen.”
Thanks.

Very nice post! No apology needed for the long post man. It was quality in quantity. Stick around!
 

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Good post, welcome to the forum. :thumbsup:
 

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Good post Igorotoak :thumbsup: welcome aboard. I agree we will definitely see a 3rd fight between Pac and JMM at 135. I think Pac will be a lot more powerful at that weight so he would win this one IMO.
 

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Pac Man will do well. He is a bit one-dimensional. He can work on that. If he listens to Roach, he will win fights. A lot by knockout.
Hes been working on it. Hes been with Roach for how long now and hes still basicly the same fighter.

I'd say the Pacman wraps his career up at 135... MAYBE 140 or a catchweight if Arum and Roach agree on an opponent that would suit him stylisically (Hatton).

There are several other variables to consider if Pac (or any fighter were to go up in weight):

POWER - With an extra 2 onces of padding on the glove and him bangin' on naturally heavier guys, his pop may deteriorate (at least a bit). However these were the same thoughts I had about him when he was jumping from 122 to 126 to 130… With the Pacman seemingly reaching physical maturity, his pop always seemed to come with him as he grew into heavier divisions... That being said I think his pop remains solid, but not as devastating it was at 130 and below.

CHIN - As mentioned earlier, he'd be bangin' on heavier guys but he'd also be taking heavier shots. Although Pacman's defense has improved he's still no Whitaker or Mayweather. His chin always seemed to have been solid but he has been rocked in the past by smaller guys so it'd be interesting how it holds up. With his tendency to fight and absorb blows to give some back may be a bit more risky in the heavier divisions.

SPEED - His explosive speed combined with his power at 130 and below assisted him being the wrecking force he is. In his 2nd fight with Marquez he came into the ring 16lbs or so heavier than the weigh in. Draining yourself that much and putting back that amount of weight has GOT to be draining! I wouldn't be surprised it may have hindered his performance... At 135 I’d think his speed slightly drops but stays faster and more explosive than your average 135er as long as he gains NO MORE than 10lbs on fight night… if that were the case I’d think he'd be around the same speed he was in his last fight with Marquez, if not faster because he’d be in the ring at the same weight he was that night without draining himself out an extra 5lbs.

LIFESTYLE - In an interview in the Philippines Manny stated that he's a "changed man" and gave up his hard partying lifestyle and other interests that most definitely distracted him from being the ruthless little tiger that got him to his superstar status today. Hopefully the damage isn't already done and his rededication to boxing prolongs his career a few more.

GENERAL WEAR AND TEAR - Throughout most of Manny career he’s been contempt with taking a shot to give a few and has been in some unforgettable wars. With a style like that in around 50 fights I wonder how much he’d have in him... There have been few fighters like Bernard Hopkins that have made the transition from hard punching slugger to cagey slick boxer. Even with Roach helping to add better defense and boxing skills to his fighter, I’d still think Manny would remain a fighter at heart and be more willing get himself involved in wars if the opportunity arises. But with new dimensions added to his game, it can help preserve his career in the long run. I always thought of the body like a rock… the more you hit it, the more it deteriorates… although, there are some rocks harder than others…

With all the said I think David Diaz is a perfect test for Manny at 135.

I'd say Pacman takes a rubbermatch with Marquez decisively at 135 when considering the factors stated below:

SIZE – Marquez seems to too have just recently built himself into a solid 130lb fighter. It seems that the Pacman is outgrowing that division and growing into 135, especially when you take into consideration how much weight he sheds off and puts in between the weigh in and fight night. I still think Marquez would retain his sharp counter-punching style, I would still assume Pac would be more comfortable, stronger and energetic.

AGE – Marquez really didn’t seem to show the effects of age during the last fight, but with time passing and the rematch nowhere in the near future, especially with David Diaz on Manny’s schedule, you have to consider how much is left in those 35 year old or so legs by the time he’s in there with Pac.

MOMENTUM – Manny jumped right into a rematch with Marquez after an uninspiring 2007. I thought he would’ve taken a tune-up to help refocus before taking on such a difficult opponent. With his rededication to boxing and the controversy that surrounded his win over Marquez, I think it only serves as fuel for the Pacman and the focus from the last training camp will provide him with momentum to feed off.

Things that I think could be improved:

THE RIGHT HAND – Although Marquez most likely had something to do with it, Manny’s right hand was under utilized when compared to other fights (Morales 2 & 3). The primary weapon for the southpaw against an orthodox fighter will always be his straight left, but having a right hand to keep Marquez wary would definitely help and even set up his straight left. I’m sure Roach knows it, and the previous fight would help provide some sort of blue print on how to utilize it better.

FOOTWORK – Circling to the right and keeping the right foot on the outside of the opponents left foot! BASIC southpaw boxing! I thought the cerebral Roach had some sort of game plan and to NOT do so as often so that his fighter wouldn’t be so predictable. But it turns out, that’s what he wanted, BASIC southpaw boxing and circling to his right/opponents left!

BODYWORK – Wear down the body to eventually wear down the head (Morales 2). Easier said than done against such a good counter puncher like Marquez.

PACE – If Pacman would be able to keep the high energy, explosive pace up we’re used to seeing I think it would force Marquez to fight more bring him into Pacman’s element. As Emmanuel Steward quoted, “When he’s in his in-&-out, side-to-side, Mike Tyson-like movement he’s winning the fight and his rhythm frustrates Marquez.”

Sorry for the long post, as the original poster said, “Everything remains to be seen.”
Thanks.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD
 

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Thanks everybody for the warm welcome!

In regards to the right hand of Manny...

In a recent interview with Roach on TheSweetScience.com, he stated they weren't able to use the right hand as planned because of Marquez's under usage of his left hand (jab/hook)...

It sounds like they planned on Marquez trying to box Pac behind a jab (like Morales did in the first fight) and when his jab came off, they planned Manny to slip to the outside and come over the top or dig to the body with a right hook. Or duck Marquez's hook and come back with his own. The 2 most effective ways for a southpaw to utilize a right hook...

But it turned out Marquez would lead with his right hand more to spoil that strategy...

Crazy how Roach and Beristain's strategical adjustments before and during the fight cancel each other out...

In regards to those who thought Marquez won...

That's totally fine, but robbery or controversial? BULLSHIT. I'm sure this has been said and done not only this board but on several others as well... but it was a close fight that could've gone either way. Period.

In regards to Schaefer, Golden Boy and The Ring...

It's funny that Shaefer screams robbery after a legitimately close fight but you won't hear a peep about Casamayor or Demetrius Hopkins' Golden Boy gifts after OBVIOUS unjust decisions!

I believe it was Steve Kim from Maxboxing who said it best when labeling Ring Magazine a "non-sanctioned sanctioning body". A sanctioning body that has its own rules and regulations on who should be ranked where and determines it's own champions like any other sanctioning body but doesn't charge fighters sanctioning fees. They try to label their champions as "lineal" champions and try to establish them as 'the' champ but that isn't always the case...

You can trace back the lineage on ANY weight class to the original champs and I can guarantee the lineal line broke on more than one occasion with a fighter that either: retires, dies or jumps/loses a weight. So how do they determine a new champ? I guess some sanctioning body does the job and The Ring is no different!

The Ring fails to recognize Wladamir Klitchko and the new 'linear' heavyweight champ. According to The Ring policies, in order to recognize one as champ, they have to beat the reigning champ or number 1 and number 2 ranked have to face each other to obtain championship status by THEIR standards. Wladamir is currently #1 and #2 is SAMUEL PETER. I'd give him more legitimacy if he beat Changaev (WBA Titlist) than if he beat Peter. HE HAD ALREADY BEAT SAM PETER and will most likely do it again, so why the hell would he need to fight him again? Just to obtain 'lineal' recognition by The Ring? Gimme an effin' break... The alphabet titles he currently holds and recent quality of competition he's faced compared to the rest in his division, and his consistency do enough for me to recognize him as 'the' man, even more so if he fights Changaev, NOT Peter.

Now The Ring's website toots Casamayor's horn after his bout with Katsidis and continue to recognize him as 'the' champ in the lightweight division. The Ring pointed out Diaz's alphabet titles before he lost to Campbell and most people considered him the best in the division (as I did) at the time, especially after Casamayor's performance against Santa Cruz in which every person but 2 judges thought he lost. The Ring now boasts about Casa's win over a tough but limited opponent in Katsidis and therefore trying to use that as argumet that their guy is 'the' man. BULLSHIT, he a guy who was strong, but fairly green and try to use that as argument that Casa's still 'the' champ?! Gimme a break... like Nate Campbell stated, "They say lineal this, lineal that, F--K that! The best guy in the division is 'the' champ!" I concur! And if anything, hardcore 'lineage' followers (The Ring) should recognize Jose Armondo Santa Cruz as 'the' champ.

Having a company give out belts when one of the major promotional parties is involved is a total conflict of interest. Although I like how Golden Boy Promotions promote boxing, I believe they shouldn't be involved in determining who or what champions are.

Again, sorry for the blabbering but thanks for reading.

Igorotak
 
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