Marvin Hagler vs Mike Tyson P4P
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Yeah, I agree that Hagler would survive the early storms. If he went into a killing machine like he did against Hearns, I wouldn't put it past him to beat Mike at his own swarming game. Once Hagler got hit very hard, he got mad. When Tyson got hit very hard, he became afraid. I see Marvin wearing him down and stopping Mike in the 9th.
So afraid he stopped Razor Ruddock in 7
Tyson was never afraid. He lost to Douglass due to personal problems at home and the lack of training that resulted from it, combined with the fact that Douglass fought the fight of his life because his grandmother just died. All losses after that Tyson was over the hill and hadn't trained properly since the late 80s.
As for this lb for lb matchup, I got Tyson by decision. Hearns had a glass jaw and piss poor defense when he was tired, Tyson did not. Tyson wins 5 of the first 6 rounds and at least 2 of the last 6. 15 round fight maybe Hagler wins a SD.
It was Douglas's mother that died. Tyson didn't get hit with huge shots against Ruddock. He got hit, but nothing that would hurt most ATG's. When Tyson got hit with a shot that stunned him, doubt formed in his mind, and many times you could see the fight go right out of him. Like in the "Bonecrusher" Smith fight, he dominated the fight, but in the last round (12th), Smith landed a big right that stunned Mike, and it was clear Mike was shaken and the fight had gone out of him. Just because you remain standing and fighting, doesn't mean the fight is still in you. You can quit, but not quit, if you know what I mean. You can quit mentally and not really try anymore, but not say "that's it, I'm done."So afraid he stopped Razor Ruddock in 7
Tyson was never afraid. He lost to Douglass due to personal problems at home and the lack of training that resulted from it, combined with the fact that Douglass fought the fight of his life because his grandmother just died. All losses after that Tyson was over the hill and hadn't trained properly since the late 80s.
As for this lb for lb matchup, I got Tyson by decision. Hearns had a glass jaw and piss poor defense when he was tired, Tyson did not. Tyson wins 5 of the first 6 rounds and at least 2 of the last 6. 15 round fight maybe Hagler wins a SD.
Marvin Hagler on the other hand got furious when he got hit hard. When Hearns hit him with a big right hand and busted his head open, he got furious and took his anger out on Tommy. When John Mugabe hit Marvin with a big right uppercut in the 6th round of their fight, Hagler got mad and turned up the heat and pounded on John the rest of the fight. Hagler was a warrior, Tyson was not.
I also feel stamina would be a big factor in the fight. Hagler is probably one of the top 10 best conditioned fighters of all time. He trained like very few. Tyson, in his prime, could keep his huge workrate up for about 4-5 rounds, after that it was como's in bursts, or a jab here and there. Hagler would keep a constant workrate, and could match Tyson's.
Tyson would more than likely win the early rounds, but I feel Marvin would stay right with Mike and start to outslug him and wear him down. In the 9th I think Hagler would drop Mike with a big, long barrage of punches. Mike gets up, but clearly is done and Hagler goes in for the kill and the fight is stopped with Tyson taking punishment.
Not enough evidence that Tyson wasn't the warrior you claim he wasn't. The man was rarely in trouble in his prime. It was the 12th round with Bonecrusher, a man needs to go to his corner to regroup sometimes. You don't know if Mike was done had the fight needed to go 15 rounds.
Also, Razzor Ruddock was the hardest Heavyweight puncher of Tyson's generation. He took his shots and came through them. Some of those shots Ruddock hit him with would KO any ATG without a great chin.
Also, Razzor Ruddock was the hardest Heavyweight puncher of Tyson's generation. He took his shots and came through them. Some of those shots Ruddock hit him with would KO any ATG without a great chin.
Mike also was never knocked down, and got up to win a fight. That is a major set back to people who claim he was a warrior. Ruddock was the 2nd hardest hitter of Tyson's generation, the hardest hitter was George Foreman. Ruddock did land some good shots, but the majority of ATG's wouldn't have gotten dropped or knocked out by those shots. Floyd Patterson more than likely would have been down or out from some of those, and Ken Norton may have gotten KO'd from multiple shots (if he froze up like he did against Foreman and Shavers).
Tyson was rarely in trouble during his prime because he wasn't getting tagged hard. He was so dominant he was never really tested. His chin was very good, it took a lot to drop him, but his heart is where he lacked. In the first Holyfield fight when Evander dropped him, it was very easy to see the fight go right out of Tyson. It was very apparent. When Douglas fought him, it was apparent going into the 10th that Mike had pretty much given up winning. He was always dangerous, but he wasn't ferocious anymore. He wasn't looking for blood, he was more looking to get it over with.
All your examples of when Tyson lacked heart were versions of Tyson that weren't really him.
No one said Hagler was going to be stopped....
I just see Tyson UD 12. This is prime vs prime here -_-
Who were they, his brother? Just because you are not prime, does not mean you lose heart. Ali had heart all the way through his career. LaMotta had heart all the way through his career. As did Fullmer, Basilio, Dempsey, Holmes, Frazier, Duran (forget the Leonard rematch), etc. Being past your prime is no excuse. And don't say Tyson wasn't mentally all there, because he never was. Tyson was always unstable, and the only reason he wasn't sent to prison sooner was because Cus D'Amato, Kevin Rooney, and Jimmy Jacobs managed to keep him in the gym, or bail him out when he did get in trouble.
The man spent 5 years in prison, he lost his heart kid.
Hard to lose something you didn't have.
:facepalm:
Denigrate a man you never knew.
And for a guy with no heart his fight with Lewis lasted a hell of a lot longer than it should have. A shell of his former self the man still showed he had some heart left. Tyson was ruined by other things than the sport of boxing.
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I hope this whole imagined P4P fight is where you imagine they were both natural middleweights or both natural heavyweights but with all the same relative skill sets?
Is that what you guys mean?
or
Do you lot literally mean Hagler fighting Tyson at heavyweight or dam near it as in cruiserweight?
If you mean the former you have a discussion.
If you mean the latter I think you are all CRAZY and this has some of the worst most unrealistic posts on boxing I have ever seen as Hagler would get murdered and I say that as a huge Hagler fan who has watched nearly all his fights.....
I hope you mean the former possibility ????
Is that what you guys mean?
or
Do you lot literally mean Hagler fighting Tyson at heavyweight or dam near it as in cruiserweight?
If you mean the former you have a discussion.
If you mean the latter I think you are all CRAZY and this has some of the worst most unrealistic posts on boxing I have ever seen as Hagler would get murdered and I say that as a huge Hagler fan who has watched nearly all his fights.....
I hope you mean the former possibility ????
The former is correct.
lb for lb I would consider Tyson the stronger of the two. This fight would take place in a phone booth, and Tyson's inside fighting is superior to Hagler.
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Thank fook for that......
I would pick Hagler then.
Then chin and defence is too good and the sticking hurtful jab breaks Tyson up on the way in for Hagler to get out his toolkit and then pick him off with textbook controled aggression and every shot in the book for a late KO/TKO
That is how I would see it.
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Hagler wouldn't be the pressure boxer in a fight like this....
Think Hagler Hamsho 1 mate.
Tyson would be the aggressor and Marvin would look to pick him apart.
Go get a youtube lolk on that fight if you can.
Hagler Vito Antuofermo 1 and 2 and even the wild Obelmejias are better guide as to how Hagler tended to deal with come forward strong fighters (Obel is tall and the least good example, but the wild aggression points the same way).
Hagler pressured the likes of Hearns and SRL because A) he didn't think they had 160 power and he knew he had more trouble boxing them/they could both box.
Think Hamsho 1
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