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Miguel Cotto is gifted yet another World Title

3K views 80 replies 16 participants last post by  Obama 
#1 ·
The Michael Jennings fight went from WBO eliminator to vacant title fight thanks to Paul Williams vacating the title. Miguel Cotto's career has become a series of won World Championship belts without ever beating a single reigning champion to earn one.

1st world title: Vacant WBO JWW Championship, defeated Kelson Pinto. Who?

2nd world title: Vacant WBA WW Championship, defeated Carlos Quintana. Quintana, a man who's career will most likely be highlighted as the first guy to beat Paul Williams on an off night.

3rd world title: Vacant WBO WW Championship, soon to defeat Michael Jennings to capture it. Are you shitting me?

If I did a notable wins list for all 3 of these fighters combined I couldn't produce 3 names. In fact Quintana is the only one with notable wins at all, and Joel Julio as his second notable win is nearly a stretch. Yet these were the men Cotto had to beat to become a 2 division 3 time World Champion. Wow. What used to be great accomplishments in boxing are turning into great jokes.
 
#2 ·
Quintana had just soundly beaten the undefeated 2006 Prospect of the Year Top 25 Prospects Under 25 (2006) 2005 ESPN Prospect of the Year Joel Julio.

Cotto destroyed the undefeated Quintana and it didn't take him 2 fights to do it either.

Go harp on Clottey: undefeated Quintana>beaten down undersized Judah or Berto: undefeated Quintana>Miki Rodriguez or Froch: undefeated Quintana>undefeated Pascal or anyone else that's won a vacant title. Your penalizing Cotto for being at the right place at the right time.
 
G
#3 ·
Quintana had just soundly beaten the undefeated 2006 Prospect of the Year Top 25 Prospects Under 25 (2006) 2005 ESPN Prospect of the Year Joel Julio.

Cotto destroyed the undefeated Quintana and it didn't take him 2 fights to do it either.

Go harp on Clottey: undefeated Quintana>beaten down undersized Judah or Berto: undefeated Quintana>Miki Rodriguez or Froch: undefeated Quintana>undefeated Pascal or anyone else that's won a vacant title. Your penalizing Cotto for being at the right place at the right time.
That would be a legit argument if the previous title holder (Paul Williams) wasn't looking for anyone of note to defend it against. PW didn't vacate the title because he didn't want it. He vacated it because he wants to get in the ring, as the titleholder or not. Guys like Cotto and Jennings weren't interested in the title until it became vacant.
 
#15 ·
Well, ill agree with you that its soft opposition to get world titles. though Carlos is a very good fighter, so i dont think he should be swept under the rug, if i remember correctly cotto was the underdog in the quintana fight though i could be wrong.

Anyway, Its not like thats the only fights Cotto has. Yes he may have gotten the belts too easily but once he got them he went out and fought the best opposition. Even when he had very little reason to fight Margy, a man who had just lost to Paul .W, he went out and fought him.

So i can see saying the opposition he got the titles from was week, but you cant possibly allude that he has faced weak opposition.

-Ian
 
#17 ·
No one's saying he defended his title against weak opposition as I've stated previously. But the 3 best guys he's fought he hasn't looked all that champion like in. Zab got him in trouble, so he fouled him....twice. He didn't really beat Mosley and just ran away down the stretch of the fight in the best performance I've ever seen him give. Then of course, he straight up got KOed by Margy. Hence why I don't consider him 3 time world champion material when he's still so young. He could end up a 8 time world champion at this rate getting these obscure vacant title shots.
 
G
#18 ·
1. Cotto beat Mosley in a close but clear decision. (popular opinion)

2. Cotto destroyed Zab and was going to regardless of the low blows. (popular opinion)

popular opinion > Obama opinion

Seriously this thead is for no other reason but to nit-pick at Cotto who is regarded as a warrior in the sport.
 
#19 ·
1 is your opinion, you don't know if it's popular opinion. All the people I've talked to about that fight who are trainers / been around boxing all their lives believe otherwise. I'm pretty sure I saw a significant amount of people on this forum agree as well.

And 2, 2 isn't something I've contradicted. Simply stating Cotto wasn't willing to handle the adversity like a man and took the easy way out.
 
#25 ·
Well if you want to know what the experts think use google, I'm only telling you what the score is. It's your choice whether to believe it or not.
I needed you to do that? I'm pretty sure I saw the fight ans heard the 115-113 unanimous decision. Both fighters landed the same amount of punches, Cotto landed the harder blows, but you know where the fallacy in giving him the decision is based on that? Two main points.

1) All rounds were 10-9 rounds, none were 10-8.

2) Distribution of how many punches were landed per round.


If you have a round by round compubox I'd like to see it.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Going by the round by round compubox that fight is 7-5 Mosley, since despite an equal amount of punches being landed in the last round, we all saw how it happened. Cotto pulled a Winky Wright against Jermain Taylor round 12.

Mosley was also busier the entire fight, further proving he was the one forcing the action. Cotto relied too much on counter punching to me, and it still didn't cause him to land more punches. Better connect % doesn't win fights.

And damn, Mosley also owned him in power punches landed.

You're basically telling me Cotto won this fight on the jab alone.
 
G
#28 ·
I scored the bout 117-111 for Cotto. Quite frankly I didn't think it was as close as everyone was saying. Even if I did give Cotto the benefit of the doubt on a couple of close rounds, Cotto won that fight. No doubt in my mind.
 
#33 ·
The only round Cotto ever had on the table to steal was the 11th, and that would have caused a draw. No other round Mosley was clearly winning did Cotto land something real nice to "steal" it. Calling this fight 115-113 either way is a stretch, it should have been a draw and there should have been a rematch.
 
#35 ·
Cotto won that fight. It's not about how many punches you land it's about how many rounds you win and Cotto won 7.
:laugh:

You have any idea how circular that logic is? What can quantify how you win a round? Landing punches is on that list. "Winning the round" doesn't quantify winning the round. Come up with a real quantification or don't post. "I looked at the fight and he won" ain't gonna cut it.
 
#46 ·
Here's an even more complete analysis:

Averaging all three compubox categories together round by round we also come to realize Mosley wins the fight 7 to 5. I will use the format (categories won / total categories + categories even)

Cotto won rounds 1 (2/3), 4 (3/3), 6 (3/3), 8 (2/3), and 9 (2/3).
Mosley won rounds 2 (2/3 + 1 even), 3 (3/3), 5 (2/3), 7 (2/3 + 1 even), 10 (2/3), 11 (2/3), and 12 (1/3 + 1 even).

And as I've previously explained for the even scenario of the last round, Mosley wins on Ring generalship.

Funny thing is, these are the exact rounds I gave Mosley without analyzing these numbers at all.
 
#47 ·
I suppose its not a bad comeback fight. Ok Jennings is no World title challenger but Cotto is coming back off a heavy defeat.

Cotto could be mentally finished and its a great opportunity for Jennings - who will give it his all.

World title fight? Nope but thats how boxing is these days.
 
#68 ·
One fighter can land 400 punches and the other land 200 and the guy that landed 200 punches could still win. Of course I'm exagerating but I'll give an example:

Fighter 1 (landed 400). But landed 350 of them in the first 4 rounds.

Fighter 2 (landed 200). Landed an average of 20 punches a round over the last 8 rounds, against an average of 6 punches/round by fighter 1.

Thats 8 rounds to 4 for Fighter 2. Assuming there were no knockdowns and points deducted.

And this is the very difference beween an amateur bout and a priofessial bout: the rounds actually matter.


I think Cotto won the fight because he won more rounds, his punches connects were probably better distributed than Mosleys
 
#75 ·
Id like to point out that even if you count a slap as 1/5th a real punch, calzaghe still threw, and sorta landed, enough to win.

Hopkins didnt throw at all. The rounds that Hopkins won where clear, the ones Calz won was not becuase he landed a lot of punches, but just becuase B-hop landed Non. All the rounds where b-hop threw punches he won, without a doubt. but there were too many rounds that He took off. If he was as active as he was against Pavlik, then B-hop would have dominated Calz. But he wasnt.

at least thats how i saw it, though i havent seen the fight for a while, so dont quote me on this haha.

-Ian
 
#77 ·
An inside of the glove (slap)blow is an ILLEGAL BLOW!!! and therefore scores nothing. Its just as illegal as a low blow or a rabbit punch. In fact when the gloves were laced up with no covering of tape, it was known as LACING!! was prone to cause cuts.
I have yet to see Calzaghe draw a single warning for slaps though
 
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