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Alright most of you might not care about this, but it really bugs me. The Olympic committee changed the way the scoring was done after 1988 games, in which Roy Jones Jr. was the beneficiary of the worst screw job in Olympic Boxing history. The changed it to "computer scoring" to take away the human bias. Unfortunately it's simply electronic human scoring. Three judges have a button for each fighter. Every time a fighter lands a scoring blow to the torso or head the judge presses the button. If all three judges press the button within a single second then the fighter is awarded a point. There are three major problems with the system.

First it has not fixed the problem. The judges aren't pressing the buttons. The scores so far in the Olympics have been extremely low. There are two explanations. In the words of Teddy Atlas , "either it's incompetence or corruption." I watch a fight with a non-USA boxer that had won the world championships. He landed about seven clean shots in a row and was awarded no points.

The second problem is that is awards no extra points or weighted points for knockdowns or standing 8 counts. The reason, in my humble opinion, is to discriminate against fighters from the Americas. Notice I didn't say America. The style of Latin American fighters and fighters from the USA does not lend itself to just scoring points. This is a reason why many successful Olympic boxers have a hard time as pros. They are basically two different sports.

The third major problem with this system is that the equipment is expensive. So it is not used in most non-Olympic amateur bouts. It is not used in the Golden Gloves competition. It is obviously not used in club fights that amateurs take part in. This hurts fighters that don't come from countries without sports colleges. Russia, Cuba, and China are examples of countries who have these kinds of amateur programs. America obviously does not. This has to do with our lack of track education system, which I don't really want to get into. The problem is that successful American and Latin American boxers (excluding Cuba) have to retrain themselves how to fight this different style.
 

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Its crap. I agree. I've already seen some huge score disparities to where the guy that won, should of lost imo. Crappy system.
 

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Honestly I don't know why people care about the Olympics, especially when it comes to boxing, but that goes for most other sports as well. The whole thing seems like a huge waste of money and time.
....................................lol what?????:confused:
 

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....................................lol what?????:confused:
The Olympics are nothing more than a nationalist ritual that encourages jingoism and corruption. For two weeks everybody gathers around to watch sports that they normally would never, ever care about, but they only do because it is one nation versus another.

That, and as far as boxing goes, the Olympic scoring system is a complete joke.
 

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The Olympics are nothing more than a nationalist ritual that encourages jingoism and corruption. For two weeks everybody gathers around to watch sports that they normally would never, ever care about, but they only do because it is one nation versus another.

That, and as far as boxing goes, the Olympic scoring system is a complete joke.
That I disagree with and is probably one of the most simple minded statements I've heard in a while.

Second bold, I agree, the scoring system is faulty but not a complete joke.
 

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C'mon man, watch the coverage. The games aren't about the sports, they're about nation versus nation, even race versus race, to some extent. The focus is mainly on medal counts.

It is not an accident that the Olympics were restarted in 1896, just when the imperial age was really kicking into high gear.
 

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no

C'mon man, watch the coverage. The games aren't about the sports, they're about nation versus nation, even race versus race, to some extent. The focus is mainly on medal counts.

It is not an accident that the Olympics were restarted in 1896, just when the imperial age was really kicking into high gear.
First off, I have trouble watching the Olympics without muting it. The announcers are just trying to make it politcal and laced with drama. It's much more entertaining without them, with the exception of Atlas.

Regarding the scoring - I was watching this this weekend. I didn't know how it worked until reading this thread. But, I kept seeing punches go unscored too. I was confused by that but now it makes sense.

I still sting from that time Roy Jones got robbed. We'll probably see more of that. Atlas is probably right, too.
 

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C'mon man, watch the coverage. The games aren't about the sports, they're about nation versus nation, even race versus race, to some extent. The focus is mainly on medal counts.

It is not an accident that the Olympics were restarted in 1896, just when the imperial age was really kicking into high gear.
Welcome to Earth.
 

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Alright most of you might not care about this, but it really bugs me. The Olympic committee changed the way the scoring was done after 1988 games, in which Roy Jones Jr. was the beneficiary of the worst screw job in Olympic Boxing history. The changed it to "computer scoring" to take away the human bias. Unfortunately it's simply electronic human scoring. Three judges have a button for each fighter. Every time a fighter lands a scoring blow to the torso or head the judge presses the button. If all three judges press the button within a single second then the fighter is awarded a point. There are three major problems with the system. QUOTE]

You have the scoring a bit wrong. There are 5 judges not 3. Only 3 need to hit the button in order for a point to be scored.

IMO amatuer boxing in general is terrible. I mean, after 4 2-minute rounds some of these guys haven't even broken a sweat. The Olympics allow professionals to compete in Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Beach Volleyball, etc. Why not allow professional boxers to compete for their country?
 

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Honestly I don't know why people care about the Olympics, especially when it comes to boxing, but that goes for most other sports as well. The whole thing seems like a huge waste of money and time.
I agree that it's a waste of time and money. Fortunately not my money. I do like to watch some of the events. Not the 10M Air Pistol or Men's Synchronized Diving. I do like the girls gymnastics if a couple of 'em are cute and maybe Ping Pong. Which reminds me that I saw a great act at a strip club once that involved ping pong balls. Plus I'm a Jingoist (not sure what that means but I think I do) so I enjoy watching the US dominate all other countries.

Gotta go! That cute Nastia Liukin is up next!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Alright most of you might not care about this, but it really bugs me. The Olympic committee changed the way the scoring was done after 1988 games, in which Roy Jones Jr. was the beneficiary of the worst screw job in Olympic Boxing history. The changed it to "computer scoring" to take away the human bias. Unfortunately it's simply electronic human scoring. Three judges have a button for each fighter. Every time a fighter lands a scoring blow to the torso or head the judge presses the button. If all three judges press the button within a single second then the fighter is awarded a point. There are three major problems with the system. QUOTE]

You have the scoring a bit wrong. There are 5 judges not 3. Only 3 need to hit the button in order for a point to be scored.

IMO amatuer boxing in general is terrible. I mean, after 4 2-minute rounds some of these guys haven't even broken a sweat. The Olympics allow professionals to compete in Basketball, Hockey, Tennis, Beach Volleyball, etc. Why not allow professional boxers to compete for their country?
Allowing pros to compete is a terrible idea. Boxing needs a good amateur program, just like all athletics do. Nobody just gets up one day and says, "You know I've never played baseball before, but I'm trying out for MLB". The Olympics is the highest achievement in amateur boxing. The amatuer program is necessary to develop basic fundamentals. As far as 4-2 minute rounds not being hard, you've obviously never done it. Going three or even four rounds can be extremely exhausting.
 

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Allowing pros to compete is a terrible idea. Boxing needs a good amateur program, just like all athletics do. Nobody just gets up one day and says, "You know I've never played baseball before, but I'm trying out for MLB". The Olympics is the highest achievement in amateur boxing. The amatuer program is necessary to develop basic fundamentals. As far as 4-2 minute rounds not being hard, you've obviously never done it. Going three or even four rounds can be extremely exhausting.
I never said it wasn't hard. I train 2 times a week and occasionally get to spar with pros. I have had 2 exhibition fights as I am too old to compete in amateurs. It is my opinion that 4 2-minute rounds is not enough time for certain styles to be effective. My point is that the current Olympic system and most of the amateur systems aren't developing great boxers. Once a guy goes pro he generally has to change everything he has been trained to do. A boxer should be trained to hurt his opponent because that is the point of the sport. Training boys to "score points" is not boxing IMO.

In 1956 Pete Rademacher won the Gold Medal at HW for the US. He turned pro of course. Did he need 10-20 fights and 4 years of "re-training"? No. His first pro fight was for the HW title against Floyd Patterson.

I guess what I am trying to say is that amateur boxing is to boxing what flag football is to the NFL. It should be more like NCAA football is to the NFL.
 

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I never said it wasn't hard. I train 2 times a week and occasionally get to spar with pros. I have had 2 exhibition fights as I am too old to compete in amateurs. It is my opinion that 4 2-minute rounds is not enough time for certain styles to be effective. My point is that the current Olympic system and most of the amateur systems aren't developing great boxers. Once a guy goes pro he generally has to change everything he has been trained to do. A boxer should be trained to hurt his opponent because that is the point of the sport. Training boys to "score points" is not boxing IMO.

In 1956 Pete Rademacher won the Gold Medal at HW for the US. He turned pro of course. Did he need 10-20 fights and 4 years of "re-training"? No. His first pro fight was for the HW title against Floyd Patterson.

I guess what I am trying to say is that amateur boxing is to boxing what flag football is to the NFL. It should be more like NCAA football is to the NFL.
Excellent post, I totally agree with you.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I never said it wasn't hard. I train 2 times a week and occasionally get to spar with pros. I have had 2 exhibition fights as I am too old to compete in amateurs. It is my opinion that 4 2-minute rounds is not enough time for certain styles to be effective. My point is that the current Olympic system and most of the amateur systems aren't developing great boxers. Once a guy goes pro he generally has to change everything he has been trained to do. A boxer should be trained to hurt his opponent because that is the point of the sport. Training boys to "score points" is not boxing IMO.

In 1956 Pete Rademacher won the Gold Medal at HW for the US. He turned pro of course. Did he need 10-20 fights and 4 years of "re-training"? No. His first pro fight was for the HW title against Floyd Patterson.

I guess what I am trying to say is that amateur boxing is to boxing what flag football is to the NFL. It should be more like NCAA football is to the NFL.

I don't know what kind of amateur bouts you have seen or taking part in, but when I was fighting, which I have to admit has been a few years ago, bouts were scored on the 10 point must system. I don't think you're going to see guys going from the Olympics to a title shot. However, I do think that the current amateur system is producing some great talents. Take a guy like Andre Berto he won a title just four years after turning pro. The problem is not the amateur system like the PAL or Golden Glove championships, which are scored basically the same way pro fights are. The problem is the Olympics, which is scored in a completely different way than any other boxing. That's why I think most Olympic fighters aren't going to make great pros, but the guys that are going to be successful pros are golden glove champions. Most successful pros have a good amateur background.
 

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I don't know what kind of amateur bouts you have seen or taking part in, but when I was fighting, which I have to admit has been a few years ago, bouts were scored on the 10 point must system. I don't think you're going to see guys going from the Olympics to a title shot. However, I do think that the current amateur system is producing some great talents. Take a guy like Andre Berto he won a title just four years after turning pro. The problem is not the amateur system like the PAL or Golden Glove championships, which are scored basically the same way pro fights are. The problem is the Olympics, which is scored in a completely different way than any other boxing. That's why I think most Olympic fighters aren't going to make great pros, but the guys that are going to be successful pros are golden glove champions. Most successful pros have a good amateur background.
I have been to (not fought at) GG Tourneys in Michigan, Ohio, and W. by God Va. over the past 2 years. All were on the "Total Points" system. No 10-point must system. I assume this change was made in order to simulate the Olympics and thus improve the chances of GG boxers doing better at the Olympic level. I'm glad you brought up Andre Berto. His example seems to prove one of my points which is "Amateur boxing is not preparing fighters for the pros". It shouldn't have taken a fighter with Berto physical talents 4 years to get a title. He needed 4 years to learn how to fight and unlearn how to score points. Something that I feel he should have been capable of when he turned pro.

I will rant just a bit more about how bad amateur boxing is with an off topic example. At the Arnold Classic (which has a National Amatuer Boxing Tournament) had teams from all over the US bring fighters who paid $35 non-refundable entry fees. Keep in mind that all of these kids/coaches have been training their butt off as well as spending time and money to get to Columbus, Ohio from all over the US. Then, 70% of the fighters that showed up were not matched due to age and/or experience requirements. How is that for absurdity? I expressed my discontent with local officials as there would be a referee and 2 coaches for each fight with the ability to stop a lopsided fight should 1occur. In my opinion, local officials simply pocketed the money without having to do the work. On the other hand, I like to participate in "Fund-Raisers" that are not sanctioned by anybody. Headgear, 16-oz gloves, referees, medics, all help prevent injury. For matchups we usually consider age/weight/experience (honor system on the experience). The matchmaker tries to do the best he can to get everyone a fight and make each fight competitive. The best thing, not one fighter paid a penny (I made a donation at the door and in the ring:cool:). Sorry to rant. I've seen talented boys and girls come into my gym only to become frustrated and quit the sport when they train so hard and can't get fights.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have been to (not fought at) GG Tourneys in Michigan, Ohio, and W. by God Va. over the past 2 years. All were on the "Total Points" system. No 10-point must system. I assume this change was made in order to simulate the Olympics and thus improve the chances of GG boxers doing better at the Olympic level. I'm glad you brought up Andre Berto. His example seems to prove one of my points which is "Amateur boxing is not preparing fighters for the pros". It shouldn't have taken a fighter with Berto physical talents 4 years to get a title. He needed 4 years to learn how to fight and unlearn how to score points. Something that I feel he should have been capable of when he turned pro.

I will rant just a bit more about how bad amateur boxing is with an off topic example. At the Arnold Classic (which has a National Amatuer Boxing Tournament) had teams from all over the US bring fighters who paid $35 non-refundable entry fees. Keep in mind that all of these kids/coaches have been training their butt off as well as spending time and money to get to Columbus, Ohio from all over the US. Then, 70% of the fighters that showed up were not matched due to age and/or experience requirements. How is that for absurdity? I expressed my discontent with local officials as there would be a referee and 2 coaches for each fight with the ability to stop a lopsided fight should 1occur. In my opinion, local officials simply pocketed the money without having to do the work. On the other hand, I like to participate in "Fund-Raisers" that are not sanctioned by anybody. Headgear, 16-oz gloves, referees, medics, all help prevent injury. For matchups we usually consider age/weight/experience (honor system on the experience). The matchmaker tries to do the best he can to get everyone a fight and make each fight competitive. The best thing, not one fighter paid a penny (I made a donation at the door and in the ring:cool:). Sorry to rant. I've seen talented boys and girls come into my gym only to become frustrated and quit the sport when they train so hard and can't get fights.
I don't think Berto needed that much time to get a title. I remember seeing him a few years ago thinking this kid should be fighting for a title right now. The problem is the ranking system in the pros. None of the major organizations will even look at ranking you in the top 10 without 20 wins. It takes time to amass that kind of total. I don't know about Michigan, when I was in the Chicago Golden Glove tournament, in 1999 (damn I'm old), there was no computer scoring. I guess thinking back they only said decisions as 3-0 or 2-1 (I also attended in 2001 and it was the same). Basically each judge got a vote. They may have changed things since then. If they have I agree it's stupid. I still think the amateur program is necessary to teach fighters the fundamentals. As far as people taking advantage of athletes, that's sports. I work with at risk youth. I drove them to an amateur basketball tournament in which each player was required to pay $25. The tournament was supposed to be double elimination. After some teams lost they were told they were eliminated completely. Other teams lost two or three times and still were allowed to compete. A few teams were told they couldn't compete at all.
 

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No one likes the olympic scoring, and for good reason. It sucks. At the hall of fame weekend none of the fighters like it. Just on Friday Night Fights Howard Davis said he hates it. They need to just accept that in the olympics there is extreme bias and people are gonna get cheated in different countries. From what I've seen mainly in the Asian type countries (no offence to Asians, it's just how it is). They seem to, much like the Russians, breed just for the olympics, and their judges seem to steal medals from people. But hey, that's what it is. Pushing buttons does not determine who wins a fight.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
No one likes the olympic scoring, and for good reason. It sucks. At the hall of fame weekend none of the fighters like it. Just on Friday Night Fights Howard Davis said he hates it. They need to just accept that in the olympics there is extreme bias and people are gonna get cheated in different countries. From what I've seen mainly in the Asian type countries (no offence to Asians, it's just how it is). They seem to, much like the Russians, breed just for the olympics, and their judges seem to steal medals from people. But hey, that's what it is. Pushing buttons does not determine who wins a fight.
True, Can somebody explain why 5 rounds on the 10 point must system wouldn't work.
 
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