Willie Pep because he was a defence master. He would duck, do the shoulder roll, block, dance out of the way, and more. He was very fast, could take a shot, had great heart and stamina, and he had a massive amount of skill. Carmen Basilio agree's with me on this, so does (did) Rocky Marciano.
P4P Best Ever, Robinson or Pep? Do Vote!
SORRY HENRY ARMSTORNG FANS!!! Out of these two... who many on these here forums are divided over who is P4P the best boxer ever... who do you think is the greatest and give your reasons as to why? I've already given my reasons on Sugar Ray Robinson in another thread that I created (THE BEST SUGAR IN BOXING) so I'm sticking with that!
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Pep, by far,just look what he did late in his career after a 4 yr. layoff.
The best advice I ever got was from a kid in the gym who told me. "When your in the ring make believe a cop is chasing you; and don't let him catch you."
WILLIE PEP
Wille's known to have said that to Jim Shea with Sports Illustrated. :laugh:
Wille Pep? :thumbsup:
J.C.
WILLIE PEP
Wille's known to have said that to Jim Shea with Sports Illustrated. :laugh:
Wille Pep? :thumbsup:
J.C.
Willie Pep was fast, a defencive master, had great footwork and heart, could take a great shot, and he could slug it out if need be (which wasn't very often).
tommygunn said:robinson by miles.
How???? Have you ever seen one of Peps fights? IMO Pep P4P was the greatest.
ive seen a good few of pep's fights, and ive seen him look bad a few times against saddler.bill1234 said:How???? Have you ever seen one of Peps fights? IMO Pep P4P was the greatest.
p4p robinsons skill's in the ring haven't and and will never be seen again he was on a diffrent level.
First of all, the 2nd fight he beat the crap out of Saddler, and his eye was frightfuly swollen. Pep was slightly past it when he fought Saddler too. How can you say Robinson's skills were better than Peps??? Pep was a defencive master (better than Robinson), Pep was faster, had more stamina, had more heart, he had more footwork, and he had more ring smarts. What does that leave with Robinson over Pep??? Power.tommygunn said:ive seen a good few of pep's fights, and ive seen him look bad a few times against saddler.
p4p robinsons skill's in the ring haven't and and will never be seen again he was on a diffrent level.
anything you say pep does better he doesn't. first of all if robinson chose to fight defensivly he could do it better than any other fighter ever and secondly he was like grease lightning with pop in both hands.bill1234 said:First of all, the 2nd fight he beat the crap out of Saddler, and his eye was frightfuly swollen. Pep was slightly past it when he fought Saddler too. How can you say Robinson's skills were better than Peps??? Pep was a defencive master (better than Robinson), Pep was faster, had more stamina, had more heart, he had more footwork, and he had more ring smarts. What does that leave with Robinson over Pep??? Power.
this will be my last post on this subject bill because i know you hero worshhip pep much like you do holmes and we all no not to debate with a kid about his hero's, i remember a few years ago i said to the kid next door that supperman would kick spidermans ass. the kid aint spoke to me since.
Both these guys are in my all-time Top 5 pound for pound list.
They both were Great boxers, had Great footwork, Great defensive skills, they both threw Great Combination punches, they both were the BEST of their weight Class for years.
Pep did come back after 6 years, BUT only 1 boxer that he beat had a winning record, so I wouldn't count that. He did come back after he had suffered serious injuries in a plane crash and that says something.
When Robinson came back after 2-1/2 years he went on to win the Middleweight Title several times.
The only loss he had in his 1st 131 bouts was against LaMotta and Jake out weighed him by 16 pounds. Robinson's record was 128-1-2 before his 2nd loss.
The only loss Pep had in his 1st 136 bouts was against Sammy Angott in 1943. Angott was the Lightweight Champion at the time and out weighed Pep by 4 pounds. Pep's record was 134-1-1 before his 2nd loss.
Robinson fought Angott 3 times and won all 3 times, and Robinson weighed the same as Angott in their 1st match and the scoring was Kutcher scored the fight 6-3-1, Lacky and Loughran 7-2-1 in that bout.
Robinson did beat Pep when they were Amateurs BUT Robinson was older and Heavier then Pep.
The only thing that I see that would separate these two Great Boxers is Robinson's punching Power and that's why I will have to go with him.
When Robinson was a Welterweight, he was the BEST EVER!
They both were Great boxers, had Great footwork, Great defensive skills, they both threw Great Combination punches, they both were the BEST of their weight Class for years.
Pep did come back after 6 years, BUT only 1 boxer that he beat had a winning record, so I wouldn't count that. He did come back after he had suffered serious injuries in a plane crash and that says something.
When Robinson came back after 2-1/2 years he went on to win the Middleweight Title several times.
The only loss he had in his 1st 131 bouts was against LaMotta and Jake out weighed him by 16 pounds. Robinson's record was 128-1-2 before his 2nd loss.
The only loss Pep had in his 1st 136 bouts was against Sammy Angott in 1943. Angott was the Lightweight Champion at the time and out weighed Pep by 4 pounds. Pep's record was 134-1-1 before his 2nd loss.
Robinson fought Angott 3 times and won all 3 times, and Robinson weighed the same as Angott in their 1st match and the scoring was Kutcher scored the fight 6-3-1, Lacky and Loughran 7-2-1 in that bout.
Robinson did beat Pep when they were Amateurs BUT Robinson was older and Heavier then Pep.
The only thing that I see that would separate these two Great Boxers is Robinson's punching Power and that's why I will have to go with him.
When Robinson was a Welterweight, he was the BEST EVER!
But Pep was faster and had a better defence.hhascup said:Both these guys are in my all-time Top 5 pound for pound list.
They both were Great boxers, had Great footwork, Great defensive skills, they both threw Great Combination punches, they both were the BEST of their weight Class for years.
Pep did come back after 6 years, BUT only 1 boxer that he beat had a winning record, so I wouldn't count that. He did come back after he had suffered serious injuries in a plane crash and that says something.
When Robinson came back after 2-1/2 years he went on to win the Middleweight Title several times.
The only loss he had in his 1st 131 bouts was against LaMotta and Jake out weighed him by 16 pounds. Robinson's record was 128-1-2 before his 2nd loss.
The only loss Pep had in his 1st 136 bouts was against Sammy Angott in 1943. Angott was the Lightweight Champion at the time and out weighed Pep by 4 pounds. Pep's record was 134-1-1 before his 2nd loss.
Robinson fought Angott 3 times and won all 3 times, and Robinson weighed the same as Angott in their 1st match and the scoring was Kutcher scored the fight 6-3-1, Lacky and Loughran 7-2-1 in that bout.
Robinson did beat Pep when they were Amateurs BUT Robinson was older and Heavier then Pep.
The only thing that I see that would separate these two Great Boxers is Robinson's punching Power and that's why I will have to go with him.
When Robinson was a Welterweight, he was the BEST EVER!
As a Middleweight I would agree with you, BUT when Robinson was a Welterweight, he was fast and he also had a very good defense as well.bill1234 said:But Pep was faster and had a better defence.
Robinson also had a better Chin.
Pep was the Greatest pure boxer ever, BUT Robinson was the best overall.
You mean like you do Muhummed Ali?tommygunn said:this will be my last post on this subject bill because i know you hero worshhip pep much like you do holmes ...
Especially if the kid knows more than we do. :laugh:tommygunn said:. . . and we all do not to debate with a kid about his hero's . . .
Superman vs Spiderman sounds like a hellavua fight to me. :thumbsup:tommygunn said:i remember a few years ago i said to the kid next door that superman would kick spidermans ass. the kid aint spoke to me since.
J.C.
LOL, I would pick superman.JCC said:You mean like you do Muhummed Ali?
Especially if the kid knows more than we do. :laugh:
Superman vs Spiderman sounds like a hellavua fight to me. :thumbsup:
J.C.
The two are such contrasting styles that it's very hard to really compare them. I prefer to say that Willie Pep is the Best Defensive Fighter of All Time and Robinson the best Boxer-Puncher combination,giving both credit for something that defined their game. I guess I'm just not very big on these comparison games,since there's never a "right answer" and anytime you have these hypothetical comparisons,then there's going to be a Winner and a Loser,and neither deserves to be seen in the latter role.
do you have a top 10 p4p list.Dave Murphy said:The two are such contrasting styles that it's very hard to really compare them. I prefer to say that Willie Pep is the Best Defensive Fighter of All Time and Robinson the best Boxer-Puncher combination,giving both credit for something that defined their game. I guess I'm just not very big on these comparison games,since there's never a "right answer" and anytime you have these hypothetical comparisons,then there's going to be a Winner and a Loser,and neither deserves to be seen in the latter role.
Tommy-
Yep,sure do
Just kidding,let me think about it and I will post it up for you. I know that Robinson and Pep are both on it,with Henry Armstong,Harry Greb,Roberto Duran and in what may surprise a lot of people,not Muhammid Ali. Let me work on it and I will post it up in another topic....so that you guys can pick it apart and ridicule it
Yep,sure do
Just kidding,let me think about it and I will post it up for you. I know that Robinson and Pep are both on it,with Henry Armstong,Harry Greb,Roberto Duran and in what may surprise a lot of people,not Muhammid Ali. Let me work on it and I will post it up in another topic....so that you guys can pick it apart and ridicule it
THANK YOU!!! Ali WAS NOT A P4P FIGHTER!!! Ali used his reach, which means nothing in P4P.Dave Murphy said:Tommy-
Yep,sure do
Just kidding,let me think about it and I will post it up for you. I know that Robinson and Pep are both on it,with Henry Armstong,Harry Greb,Roberto Duran and in what may surprise a lot of people,not Muhammid Ali. Let me work on it and I will post it up in another topic....so that you guys can pick it apart and ridicule it
in your opinion and daves opinion he wasn't. but in probably more than 80% of people he is.bill1234 said:THANK YOU!!! Ali WAS NOT A P4P FIGHTER!!! Ali used his reach, which means nothing in P4P.
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