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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pavlik/P-Will: more than just talk?

Arum scraps offer to Mora, now in Pavlik-Williams fight talks

By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com

Unable to agree on financial terms, Top Rank promoter Bob Arum withdrew an offer he made to junior middleweight titleholder Sergio Mora to challenge middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik in the fall, instead turning his attention Thursday to making a deal with Paul Williams, a welterweight titleholder who would move up in weight for the title shot.

If Pavlik-Williams is made, it would take place Sept. 27 on HBO, Arum told ESPN.com, adding that the site would probably be Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, N.J. That is where Pavlik has drawn good crowds and where he won the title last fall by knocking out Jermain Taylor and where he defended it for the first time June 7 with a third-round knockout of Gary Lockett.

Since the prospect of a fight between Pavlik (34-0, 30 KOs) and light heavyweight and super middleweight champion Joe Calzaghe evaporated a couple of weeks ago, when Calzaghe declared his intention to instead face Roy Jones Jr., Arum has been in talks with Mora promoter Jeff Wald of the Tournament of Contenders.

However, they could not agree on the money. Arum offered $1.2 million and Wald countered with $1.5 million, they both told ESPN.com.

Mora (21-0-1, 5 KOs), the first-season of "The Contender," defeated Vernon Forrest to claim a 154-pound title last month but was contractually obligated to give him a rematch. In order for Forrest and promoter Gary Shaw to allow Mora to bypass an immediate rematch, Wald would have had to pay them an undisclosed amount to step aside. Mora and Wald didn't think Arum's offer was enough for them to be able to satisfy the step-aside payment and themselves. Arum wouldn't go any higher and withdrew his offer Wednesday.

"It's a business," Wald said. "We need to honor obligations we made to Forrest and Shaw and there needed to be step-aside money acceptable to everyone. But we weren't there. I told that to Bob and he withdrew the offer. It wasn't acrimonious at all. They made an offer and I came back with what I needed and then they came back and they withdrew the offer, which is his prerogative. We would have taken the money Bob offered if we didn't have this situation [with Forrest] to deal with."

Said Arum: "Between what Mora wanted and the amounts that had to go to these other people like Shaw and Forrest, the deal was not doable. We're not mad. Jeff was a gentleman. It just didn't work out. He needed a certain amount of money based on the economics and I could not give that kind of money based on the economics."

So what's next for Mora, who also had a possible fight with Shane Mosley fall through for the same reason?

"I guess we start negotiating money for a rematch with Vernon Forrest," Wald said.

Mora also has a mandatory obligation to Sergio Martinez, a fight that the WBC has ordered.

"I don't want to discuss that yet," Wald said.

Arum has talked about several fall opponents for Pavlik. Besides Mora, there was Calzaghe and lesser bouts with fringe contenders John Duddy and Marco Antonio Rubio, neither of which HBO or Showtime were interested in as network fights or pay-per-view bouts.

So now Arum is talking with Dan Goossen, Williams' promoter.

"With Williams, I am hopeful," Arum said. "I'm talking to Goossen and [HBO senior vice president] Kery [Davis] is trying to be helpful."

But it is a hard deal to make because of the financial expectations of both sides. At one point, Goossen asked for $2.5 million, which is as much as Pavlik earned for the Lockett fight. Still, Goossen was hopeful they could strike a deal.

"I don't like to talk too much about possibilities, but we have interest in the fight, otherwise we wouldn't be pursuing it," Goossen said. "Hopefully, we can come to an agreement to get it done. Pavlik has been one of the guys on the top of the wish list for Paul and [trainer] George [Peterson]. It's always great when you can have a fight of this magnitude on HBO. It's a big fight for the industry. It's two young men in their primes."

Williams, who defeated Antonio Margarito to win a welterweight belt last summer, lost it in his first defense when Carlos Quintana scored a major upset decision win Feb. 9. However, in the immediate rematch, Williams blew him away in the first round to retain the belt last month.

At 6-foot-1, Williams (34-1, 25 KOs) has struggled to make 147 pounds and might be better suited to fight at middleweight. He would be similar in size to the 6-2 Pavlik.

It's a fight that appeals to Pavlik manager Cameron Dunkin.

"I think it's a hard style and a tough fight, but it's a good fight," Dunkin said. "Kelly will have to be really, really prepared. Paul Williams is a tough fighter. He's probably better suited for (160 pounds) than welterweight anyway. He's not a little guy moving up. I like the fight, HBO likes the fight, but nothing is done."

Arum added that he would also be paying attention to Saturday's middleweight title bout in Germany, where beltholder Felix Sturm (29-2-1, 13 KOs) meets American Randy Griffin (24-1-3, 12 KOs) in a rematch of their draw last fall.

"Right now we're talking about Williams, but there's a fight this weekend in Germany," Arum said. "I know they won't give me Sturm [because of the money he generates there], but I'm sure I could make a deal for Griffin if he wins."

Arum said he had investigated a possible Pavlik-Winky Wright fight, but Wright's financial demands were "way too high."

"The economy is struggling. It's not like the good old days, but Winky Wright doesn't want to know that," Arum said. "It would be a great fight and so forth, but when you pay Winky Wright there's nothing left for anybody else. You can't afford Winky Wright. We'd love to fight him, but we don't have the money for it.

"They laughed at my offer and I offered him in the neighborhood of what I offered Mora. And that fight would have been on pay-per-view, so if it was a hit, he would make a lot more money. But I can't manufacture money out of the sky for Winky Wright."
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Winky being Winky again and showing no signs of rational thought. Maybe he can work out a deal to take on the shower door that TKOed Zab Judah.

Mora should be glad that the economy is the way it is and they couldn't come to terms with the money side of things. He would have gotten destroyed.

Now, if William's camp can accept something reasonable, he will have the chance to get his skull caved in.
 

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Winky being Winky a.k.a an over priced, diva, delusional bitch. I wanted this fight to get made because B-Hop roughed him up, cut him up, and won the fight, but he didnt really hurt him the way Pavlik would.

Pavlik-Williams will be a really good fight with loads of punches thrown in it, Paul can really tak a punch, but this will be like Williams-Margarito if Margarito was taller, had more power, precision, and had started fighting in the earlier rounds as he did in the later rounds. Pavlik KO in later rounds though Paul is a tough SOB and might go the distance.
 

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pretty much the way I see it. Although Paul would probably get taken out somewhere around rnd 6-7.

I honestly dont see this fight happening anytime soon, and it shouldnt. Paul should at the very least have about a year and a half before that fight to move up slowly in weight and get a couple fights in.
 

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pretty much the way I see it. Although Paul would probably get taken out somewhere around rnd 6-7.

I honestly dont see this fight happening anytime soon, and it shouldnt. Paul should at the very least have about a year and a half before that fight to move up slowly in weight and get a couple fights in.
I give him more than 6-7 rounds since he won't be knocked out by 1 shot and will keep Kelly busy with all the punches he throws and he has the longer reach.

If they do fight Paul will have to bulk up and it will make that much harder to get back down to 147. If this is his next fight Quintana was his last fight at Welter.
 
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This fight won't happen. If it does Williams would be making a massive mistake. I think he'll look average against Pavlik on way to getting sparko'd.
 

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Yeeaaa Williams might get brutalized in this fight but what my question is do you think william's combo of quickness and length will give Pav problems?
 

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Not at all. Just watch the taylor fights.
Yea but Taylor didn't really use his jab all that much as the fight went on...plus Taylor's reach is around 75-76 while Willaims reach is 80+ and definitely utilizes that jab...it'll be interesting in that aspect but I still don't see Williams winning...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Pavlik ko before 6. Pavlik will have no regard for williams reach or power.
I agree with that result, but what power? He looked to have some pop against Quintana in their rematch, but I just think he caught him off guard. I like P-Will, but I don't think his "Punisher" nickname is all that accurate, he's just not a punishing puncher. He threw well over 1000 punches against Margarito, landing a decent percentage of them, but Antonio just got stronger as the fight wore on. Also, I think he neglects to use his reach to his advantage and fights small at times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
at welterweight.......We are talking about hitting a middleweight who punches like a natural lightheavyweight.
Yeah. It's all relative. I just hear so many talking about this huge power disparity that exists when Williams fights anyone at 147, but I've never really bought into his power.
 

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Me either. I mean he has the frame to get awesome leverage on his shots which he did against quintana in their second fight, but I think it's just a little above normal welterweight power. Quintana's chin isn't the best either.
 

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Thats so stupid :S Abraham, sturm, duddy or even Sylvester would all be better fights for Pavlik imo.
 
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