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Ok, rate different ATG heavyweight's in their primes on a scale of 1-10 in hand speed, power, accuracy, snap, ring smarts, chin, stamina, heart, agility, defence, combo's, and variety of good punches. I will start.


Fighter---speed---power---accuracy---snap---ring smarts---chin---stamina---heart---agility---defence---combo's---varitey of good punches

Holmes------9------7.5------10-------9.5--------10---------9.5-----9-------10--------9---------8----------8---------------8.5 total-108

Ali---------10------7-------10--------10--------10----------10-----9-------9.5------10---------8----------8---------------7.5 total-109

Marciano----6-------10-------7---------7--------7-----------10------10-------10-------6---------7---------9----------------9 total-98

Frazier-----7-------9--------8---------7--------7------------8------10--------10------7---------8----------9---------------7 total-97

Tyson-------8.5-----9--------9---------8--------7-------------8-------8---------6------8---------9----------10-------------9 total-99.5

Lewis--------8------8--------9---------9--------9.5-----------8-------8.5------9------8.5-------8----------8--------------8.5 total-102

Louis--------8.5----9--------10---------10-------9------------6--------9-------9-------8--------8----------10-------------9 total-105.5

Foreman------7------10-------7----------6--------7------------8--------6--------9-------7.5-----7.5--------8--------------8 total-91

Dempsey------8------9.5------8----------8--------7------------9--------10-------9-------7-------7----------8.5------------8 total-99

Tunney-------9------7.5------9---------9---------9------------8--------9-------9--------8-------8----------7--------------9 total-101.5

I'll do more later. Oh, and I would have given Ali a 10 in heart, but he wanted to quit 2 or 3 times in his corner.
 

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Brutus said:
So what Ali had the biggest heart in Boxings history.
No he didn't. If you want to quit that doesn't give you heart. He wanted to quit against Liston, Cooper and Holmes (understandably)
 

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Well ofc he wanted to quit theres a fineline between being stupid and being brave against Holmes people were crying all over the arena and he knew inside he couldnt do it then why keep going? But you know what he did? Muhammed Ali never quits and thats the bottom line no matter what you read in thos books or whatever you cant question the guys heart. He is the biggest boxing superstar ever, if not the biggest sportsuperstar everAnd i have never heard that he wanted to quit against Liston? i both fight he gave the man a beating? when he got bling in that fight he never said he wanted to quit he couldnt see anything. I am not trying to be rude but saying something like " well i give Ali a 9 he wanted to quit" is imo childish and really shows youre true age. Ali is and will be the image of Boxing and you should not question his heart cause no one has a bigger one what he did for this sport and four his race is amazing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Brutus said:
Well ofc he wanted to quit theres a fineline between being stupid and being brave against Holmes people were crying all over the arena and he knew inside he couldnt do it then why keep going? But you know what he did? Muhammed Ali never quits and thats the bottom line no matter what you read in thos books or whatever you cant question the guys heart. He is the biggest boxing superstar ever, if not the biggest sportsuperstar everAnd i have never heard that he wanted to quit against Liston? i both fight he gave the man a beating? when he got bling in that fight he never said he wanted to quit he couldnt see anything. I am not trying to be rude but saying something like " well i give Ali a 9 he wanted to quit" is imo childish and really shows youre true age. Ali is and will be the image of Boxing and you should not question his heart cause no one has a bigger one what he did for this sport and four his race is amazing.

Yes he did. Dundee said him self. Ali said "I wanna quit" and Dundee said "Your going out, and just stay away". I said that its understandable why he wanted to quit against Holmes. Liston took a dive in the 2nd fight. He openly admited it. He was reallly gonna try to beat Ali that time, and he got a mysterious call from the mob that said "you better take a dive in the fight". I can name numerous people that had more heart and guts than Ali. Dundee was the main guy that kept Ali from quiting. He didn't care what Ali said (until the end), and he just kept on sending him out. Marciano was blinded with the same stuff that Ali was for 3 rounds against Walcott, but Marciano couldn't dance, all he did was walk forward trying to throw punches, but in turn got punched. Ali is lucky he could dance around, other wise, you never would have seen him champion. And don't say Liston cheated because he didn't. Coaguent spilled onto his gloves, the same thing happened in the Marciano-Walcott fight. Ali is overrated, just like Tyson. It happens all of the time with boxing superstars. Ali got so many gift decision through out his career just because he was him.
 

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Well i think Alis biggest power was his heart. In his prime he was unbeatable. Then he got banned or whatever, but imo Ali will always be the bravest, the greatest and certanly the most respected boxer of all time. And the last part is a fact, there is a reason he was named the greatest athlete of the millenium or something cant remember right now im so tired.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Brutus said:
Well i think Alis biggest power was his heart. In his prime he was unbeatable. Then he got banned or whatever, but imo Ali will always be the bravest, the greatest and certanly the most respected boxer of all time. And the last part is a fact, there is a reason he was named the greatest athlete of the millenium or something cant remember right now im so tired.

He was named athlete of the century. To be honest, if Ali wasn't such a loud mouth, he wouldn't have been so popular, or well know. In his prime he was beatable. IMO there are a few people that could have taken him. He certainly wasn't the bravest, and didn't have the most heart. Ive never understood why he is so respected because of all of the people he has disrepected. I respect him as a fighter and all, but I don't respect the way he acted during or before a fight.
 

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bill1234 said:
Ok, rate different ATG heavyweight's in their primes on a scale of 1-10 in hand speed, power, accuracy, snap, ring smarts, chin, stamina, heart, agility, defence, combo's, and variety of good punches. I will start.


Fighter---speed---power---accuracy---snap---ring smarts---chin---stamina---heart---agility---defence---combo's---varitey of good punches

Holmes------9------7.5------10-------9.5--------10---------9.5-----9-------10--------9---------8----------8---------------8.5 total-108

Ali---------10------7-------10--------10--------10----------10-----9-------9.5------10---------8----------8---------------7.5 total-109

Marciano----6-------10-------7---------7--------7-----------10------10-------10-------6---------7---------9----------------9 total-98

Frazier-----7-------9--------8---------7--------7------------8------10--------10------7---------8----------9---------------7 total-97

Tyson-------8.5-----9--------9---------8--------7-------------8-------8---------6------8---------9----------10-------------9 total-99.5

Lewis--------8------8--------9---------9--------9.5-----------8-------8.5------9------8.5-------8----------8--------------8.5 total-102

Louis--------8.5----9--------10---------10-------9------------6--------9-------9-------8--------8----------10-------------9 total-105.5

Foreman------7------10-------7----------6--------7------------8--------6--------9-------7.5-----7.5--------8--------------8 total-91

Dempsey------8------9.5------8----------8--------7------------9--------10-------9-------7-------7----------8.5------------8 total-99

Tunney-------9------7.5------9---------9---------9------------8--------9-------9--------8-------8----------7--------------9 total-101.5

I'll do more later. Oh, and I would have given Ali a 10 in heart, but he wanted to quit 2 or 3 times in his corner.

Bill, this is VERY GOOD!

I don't agree with some of your ratings BUT it's VERY GOOD!

Just on Ali, I would have given him 10 on heart, higher on defense, he was hardly ever hit in his prime and Combo's, he was the best in Combo punches.

Even using your ratings, you have Ali #1, Holmes #2 then Louis, Lewis, Tunney, Tyson, Dempsey and then Marciano, followed by Frazier and Foreman.
 

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hhascup said:
Bill, this is VERY GOOD!

I don't agree with some of your ratings BUT it's VERY GOOD!

Just on Ali, I would have given him 10 on heart, higher on defense, he was hardly ever hit in his prime and Combo's, he was the best in Combo punches.

Even using your ratings, you have Ali #1, Holmes #2 then Louis, Lewis, Tunney, Tyson, Dempsey and then Marciano, followed by Frazier and Foreman.
yes, i think when bill takes into acount every fighters strengh and weakness he knows ali was the man!!

to bad he argued marciano was better for so long. :laugh:
 

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Here's what he has:

Fighter---speed---power---accuracy---snap---ring smarts---chin---stamina---heart---agility---defense---combo's---variety of good punches

Ali----------10------7--------10-----------10---------10-----------10--------9-------9.5---------10--------8-----------8---------------7.5 -----total-109

Holmes------9------7.5------10-----------9.5--------10-----------9.5-------9--------10----------9---------8------------8---------------8.5 -----total-108

Louis--------8.5------9--------10-----------10---------9------------6----------9-------9-----------8---------8----------10-------------9 -------total-105.5

Lewis--------8-------8---------9-------------9--------9.5-----------8---------8.5------9----------8.5---------8----------8--------------8.5------ total-102

Tunney--------9----7.5--------9-------------9----------9-----------8----------9-------9------------8----------8-----------7--------------9------ total-101.5

Tyson-------8.5------9---------9------------8----------7------------8----------8-------6-----------8----------9----------10--------------9------- total-99.5

Dempsey------8----9.5--------8-------------8----------7-----------9--------10--------9-----------7----------7----------8.5-------------8------ total-99

Marciano----6-----10---------7------------7-----------7-----------10-------10-------10----------6---------7-----------9----------------9------ total-98

Frazier-------7-------9---------8------------7----------7------------8---------10------10----------7----------8----------9---------------7 -------total-97

Foreman------7-----10---------7-------------6---------7------------8---------6--------9----------7.5-------7.5----------8--------------8------- total-91
 

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Discussion Starter #11
hhascup said:
Bill, this is VERY GOOD!

I don't agree with some of your ratings BUT it's VERY GOOD!

Just on Ali, I would have given him 10 on heart, higher on defense, he was hardly ever hit in his prime and Combo's, he was the best in Combo punches.

Even using your ratings, you have Ali #1, Holmes #2 then Louis, Lewis, Tunney, Tyson, Dempsey and then Marciano, followed by Frazier and Foreman.

But some of the things Marciano was on top with, he was on top by a mile. IMO Tyson in his prime had better combo's then Ali. They were just as fast, but more powerful. They didn't last as long though.
 

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bill1234 said:
But some of the things Marciano was on top with, he was on top by a mile. IMO Tyson in his prime had better combo's then Ali. They were just as fast, but more powerful. They didn't last as long though.
maybe you should rate them out of 20 then bill, that way you can highlight marcianos strenghs better. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
tommygunn said:
maybe you should rate them out of 20 then bill, that way you can highlight marcianos strenghs better. :dunno:

If I were to rate them out of 20, I'd give Marciano a 19/20 in stamina, its hard to tell because he only fought 15 rounds, but when he did, he was breathing just as fine and relaxed as he was before the first round. He actually seemed to pick up the pace as the fight went on. In power, I'd give Marciano a 14/20, after Shavers, Cooney's, and Foreman's 20/20. Then in heart I'd give him a 20/20, he was always more determined if you hurt him, or if you were wailing on him. Chin, I'd say is fine at 10/10. And same with the rest.
 

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bill1234 said:
If I were to rate them out of 20, I'd give Marciano a 19/20 in stamina, its hard to tell because he only fought 15 rounds, but when he did, he was breathing just as fine and relaxed as he was before the first round. He actually seemed to pick up the pace as the fight went on. In power, I'd give Marciano a 14/20, after Shavers, Cooney's, and Foreman's 20/20. Then in heart I'd give him a 20/20, he was always more determined if you hurt him, or if you were wailing on him. Chin, I'd say is fine at 10/10. And same with the rest.

I agree with you on this.

Rocky only had 3 bouts that went past the 10th round and only 1 that went the full 15 rounds, so it's very hard to tell like you stated.
 

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bill1234 said:
He was named athlete of the century. To be honest, if Ali wasn't such a loud mouth, he wouldn't have been so popular, or well know. In his prime he was beatable. IMO there are a few people that could have taken him. He certainly wasn't the bravest, and didn't have the most heart. Ive never understood why he is so respected because of all of the people he has disrepected. I respect him as a fighter and all, but I don't respect the way he acted during or before a fight.
I would make one correction. Heart is wanting to quite and going out and getting the job done anyway. Much like courage isn't not being afraid, but being afraid and going ahead and doing it anyway.

Poet
 

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Discussion Starter #17
poet682006 said:
I would make one correction. Heart is wanting to quite and going out and getting the job done anyway. Much like courage isn't not being afraid, but being afraid and going ahead and doing it anyway.

Poet

But it was Dundee who sent Ali out. Ali was forced out. He never would have done it on his own.
 

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Brutus said:
Thats because most of the guys were down before he could finish ^^

He would finish it when they got up though.:cheeky4:
 

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bill1234 said:
But it was Dundee who sent Ali out. Ali was forced out. He never would have done it on his own.

Ali couldn't even open his eyes. No one would have wanted to go out against Liston that way, BUT Ali still did. He could have told the referee that he had enough, BUT he didn't, now that's HEART.
 

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hhascup said:
Ali couldn't even open his eyes. No one would have wanted to go out against Liston that way, BUT Ali still did. He could have told the referee that he had enough, BUT he didn't, now that's HEART.

Ali could open his eyes, they just stung a lot. Ali wanted to quit against Henry Cooper, but Dundee sent him out again.
 
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