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The Maul Brawling Slugger
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For starters... I reckon Ali is the greatest Heavyweight Boxer of all time... followed by Marciano... and Joe Louis.

NOW... Marciano is only just behind Ali... but not by much!

For starters... he was UNDEFEATED... AND WON 44 OF HIS 49 FIGHTS BY KO FOR GOD'S SAKES!!! :cheeky4:

However... if there were reasons why people don't consider Marciano the greatest heavyweight of all time... I've come up with 3!

NOW... some of you may say they're dumb... others may say that they're completely out of line... one or two of you may think I am being racist... but I have thought long and hard about this and came up with 3 reasons as to why I think people don't look upon Rocky Marcinao as the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time...

  1. He was WHITE - Now... I could get a lot of slack for this... but I really do think that just because he was white and not an African-American like a large majority of boxers are... he is not considered the greatest! Feel free to have a go at me for this reason! Of course... there was a really good non-racist argument about this between The Eddie Murphys and the Arsenio Halls during the film COMING TO AMERICA
  2. He was a latecomer... now... this may seem stupid... but Marciano didn't take up boxing training until he was in his early 20s and didn't turn Pro until he 23 years, 2 weeks and 2 days old! Some may say that simply because he wasn't into boxing from a very young age like Ali was at the age of 12 or Jerry Quarry was at the age of 3... and didn't turn Pro whilst a teenager... people won't consider him the greatest! This may seem stupid... but I reckon it's because of his experience beforehand and the age in which he turned Pro... that some people may not consider him the greatest!
  3. HE WAS A BRAWLER! He was not a flashy fighter lighter Ali... he wasn't an out-fighter... or an in-fighter... he was BRAWLER... just wanting to knock the guy out... and I reckon it's because of the fact that his style was BRAWLING that some people don't consider him the greatest! BUT BRAWLING WORKED FOR MARCIANO... he was the greatest brawler in all of boxing ever... it worked for him! Just because he wasn't flashy or super quick or had top notch handspeed or anything like that... doesn't mean anything! He was the greatest brawler in all of boxing EVER!!!
  4. I've added this one at the last moment... some people may argue that Joe Louis and Joe Walcott were old, aged and passed their prime when they last to Marciano... and that most of the fighters that Marciano took on during that time weren't that good! That's another reason why I think people don't consider Marciano the greatest!

Putting all of that aside... let me just say that Marciano was the greatest brawler in all of boxing, the greatest white heavyweight of all time and although I only just put him behind Muhammad Ali... the fight between the two.. in their prime... for 15 and not 12 rounds... would be mighty, mighty close... it could either be a draw or a split decision! Marciano's superior power, strenth and brawling vs. Ali's speed and flashiness... I don't know... I cannot tell... but do you have any reasons as to why you think... and why you think other people think that Rocky Marciano is not the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time?
 

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Reason 4: Ali is a legend. By this I mean that you can ask a 13 yr old girl who the greatest boxer ever was and she will say "Ali".

Reason 5: Ali's character transcends the sport of boxing. It probably doesn't seem fair that Ali gets to be the "Greatest" because he dabbled in politics but all of the publicity he generated also gained him the notoriety.

I like the fact that you brought up the quality of some of Rocky's opponents. I've read a lot of posts bashing Valuev for fighting cans but I seriously doubt that all 49 of Rocky's opponents were #1 contenders.

I also like your "flashy" argument but I will change it a little bit. When asked "Who is the greatest BOXER ever?" I immediately start thinking of TECHNICAL BOXERS and thus choose Ali. It is hard for me to call the brawlers, punchers, and swarmers great boxers. I'm probably not explaining that correctly but I think that you know what I mean.

Last Reason: Time. Not many people have seen Rocky Marciano fight. If your older than 30 you've seen most of Ali's fights.
 

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well one reason would be he didnt fight anyone to special. when he was boxing there wasnt really any skilled fighters and if the only ones he did fight were past there prime.
unlike ali.
 

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Marciano had more power than ali, ali had more speed(plus a bunch of other things) I'd take speed over power any day in this sport.

Sugar Ray Robinson had the best combination of both, and was better than all of em in my opinion.
 

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After Cassius Clay took first took the heavyweight title from Sonny Liston ... and as I saw it, he came to have some religious stuff in his mind when the name Muhummed Ali, was betowed on him by a religious leader.

What I saw at least was that he then started expressing his contempt publicly for white people, and I saw him as being a great fighter ... but also as being a racist and being filled with a lot of bitterness and hate, and that I saw had also drew a lot of attention to himself along with that of shooting his mouth off so much that he had already been doing and that he continued to do in going around saying he was the greatest as he had been doing even before he had got all that religious stuff in his mind.

Then of course, there was all his show boating in the ring, his suffle and all his dancing and stuff ... that also draw him to draw a lot of attention to himself too.

I had learned that Ali was a big fan of the theater of professional wrestling ... and that's where he got the idea of shooting his mouth off so much in promoting himself and his fights to draw attention and to build the gates and it worked.

There was a trememdous amount of hype used by Ali that I saw that he seemed to have borrowed from the theater of professional wrestling ... in shooting his mouth off as much as he did in promoting himself and his fights, and there was a tremendous amount of hype of all this "I am the greatest" stuff by Ali and also by his publicists.

Any way, it worked ... for it did draw a lot attention to Ali, and it did draw money, crowds and attention.

As a fighter as for Ali's ability ... I would say that he was the best in the heavyweight division in the time that he was there and in the times that he held the championship world title, however. I do also believe that Ali has been overated as a fighter too.

When he was a younger fighter I saw that the tryed to copy Sugar Ray Robinson and had adopted Sugar Ray's style as a boxer ... and later seem to have springed off that to more developing his own style .. yet it still appeared much like Sugar Ray's style to me.

I say Ali was a great fighter ... and a great champion, but also a very overated fighter .. in part perhaps due to so many people coming to believe all the hype used by Ali in promoting himself and also used by his publicists.
 

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The Maul Brawling Slugger
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
JCC said:
After Cassius Clay took first took the heavyweight title from Sonny Liston ... and as I see it. He came to have some religious stuff in his mind when the name Muhummed Ali, was betowed on him by Black Muslim leader Elijah Muhummed.

What I saw at least was that he then started expressing his contempt publicly for white people, and I saw him as being a great fighter ... but also as being a racist and being filled with a lot of bitterness and hate, and that I saw that also drew a lot of attention to himself along with that of shutting his mouth off so much that he had already been doing about him being the greatest even before he had got all that religious stuff in his mind.

Then of course, there was all his show boating in the ring, his suffle and all his dancing and stuff ... that also draw him to draw a lot of attention to himself too.

I had learned that Ali was a big fan of the theater of professional wrestling ... and that's where he got the idea of shooting his mouth off so much in promoting himself and his fights to draw attention and to build the gates and it worked.

There was a trememdous amount of hype used by Ali that I saw that he seemed to have borrowed from the theater of professional wrestling ... in shooting his big mouth off as much as he did in promoting his fights, and also there was a tremendous amoung of hype of all this "I am the greatest stuff" himself and also by his publicists too.

Any way, it worked ... for it did draw a lot attention to Ali, and it did draw money, crowds and attention.

As a fighter as for Ali's ability ... I would say that he was the best in the heavyweight division in the time that he was there and in the times that he held the championship world title, however. I do also believe that Ali has been overated as a fighter too.

When he was a younger fighter I saw that the tryed to copy Sugar Ray Robinson and had adopted Sugar Ray's style as a boxer ... and later seem to have springed off that to more developing his own style .. yet it still appeared much like Sugar Ray's style to me.

I say Ali was a great fighter ... and a great champion, but also a very overated fighter .. in part perhaps due to so many people coming to really believe all the hype used by Ali in promoting himself and also used by his publicists.
You do make some good points! Just thought I might make note that Ali used to stick up for Mike Tyson and was a known admirer of Mike Tyson... TRUE!!!
 
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