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Discussion Starter #1
First off, you have many misconceptions about Muslims period. I'm not Muslim, but I know a little something something about them because unlike some I like to keep an open mind about different cultures and religions. First off, the Nation of Islam (NOI) and mainstream Islam are two different factions. To mainstream Muslims, the NOI aren't considered Muslim because they beleive that their race is the superior race (while mainstream Muslims views everyone as an equal), they have a different ideology about where their God comes from, and many other diffenent ideologies. So what Farrakhan says has nothing to do with Muslims. Second, you have to realize at that time that the life expectancy wasn't as high as it is now. Yeah some people live until they're 40s and 50s back then, but that was really old during those times. Plus girls at the ages of 11 and 12 were married back then and eventually had children soon after, that's another thing to keep in mind. Muslims are one of the most generous people on the planet, so I can't understand why you are so offended (I hope you were kidding about that). Just make sure you understand the religion before talking down on it :thumbsup:
This will be my last post on this cause i don't want to hijack the thread. If you would like to continue our banter, i would suggest a PM or a new thread.

Farakhan, being in the nation of ISLAM, is a muslim. Saying he isn't would be like saying Mormons aren't a type of christian. You can say that I have many misconceptions, but I don't. I can do my own reading, my own research and make up my own mind. You make assumptions about what you think i know of the subject because it doesn't agree with what you think you know. I'll leave that to you bro.

I keep an open mind, its how i got as far as i did in reading the koran. I mean, what did i say about context? Didn't i say you would use it? Isn't that what you did?
You don't think its pretty disgusting that you are saying 11 and 12 year olds were cool? They might be, but a 9 year old? seriously, you are gonna defend mohammed and a 9 year old? It's disgusting and that's just my view.

Just so you know, I wasn't offended. I was offended that you and your brother were offended.
You went out of your way to note that someone might be offended in a racial or religious manner, forgetting that a member of the nation of ISLAM, a type of muslim, has actually said that and did not worry himself if he was insulting anyone. That bothers me.

Lastly, muslims being some of the most generous people in the world, well, that remains to be seen. It's a statement you couldn't possibly prove, nor do i expect you too. As for talking down on it, i truly have no respect for the religion. I will not say false things about it though, the truth always cuts much deeper.

If you do decide to start a new thread, i will trade barbs with you on it, if you promise to keep it civil with me. I won't make it personal but i will tell you how in this instance with this religion, how it is wrong. I'm all for respecting someone's culture, but if someone wants to debate merits, you better be able to prove it.
It's like any religion, you have to have faith and im sorry, faith doesn't do it for me in any way, shape, or form.

maybe you should understand the religion before you talk it up?

Actually you're wrong and Ex is right.

The NOI "claims" to be a faction of Islam just as the Terrorists on the Pakistani border claim to be fighting for Allah. Islam is a religion based on what Allah said through the Prophet Muhammad. What the NOI preaches and what the Terrorists preach are going against Islam...let me give you an example. Allah said if your enemy attacks you in the name of your religion and saftey then you fight to kill. But as soon as the enemy retreats or surrenders, you do not go in pursuit of the enemy because that would be against the principles of Allah. Terrorism has broken that principle time and time again yet they still claim to be one with Islam.

Now for an example with the NOI. The NOI was founded in Detroit, MI where its goal was to uplift the black spirit during the times of harsh racism. That sentence in itself shows you how they are not one with Islam. Islam preaches equality, sincerity, and peace. The NOI preached black superiority, militancy, and getting what's yours by any means necessary. Now...to go on to this point further, why do you think Malcolm X left the NOI? Malcolm X left because he finally realized that the NOI's ideals are not what Islam is all about. After his trip to Mecca he realized that he needed to be one with Allah and the more peaceful version of Malcolm X emerged.

But you're right, having Muhammad and a 9 year old is disgusting in modern times...but he wasn't living in modern times. So even though you think its disgusting now...if you were living back then, you would most likely have done the same thing because that was the way of life back then. Either that or you wouldn't get married at all.

Islam means peace in Arabic. Your view is tainted through media and false hearsay and I suggest you read several books. Your first one being this one...

Islamic Books: Islamophobia and Anti-Americanism: Causes and Remedies by Mohamed Nimer :|: Astrolabe Islamic Bookstore

It will cure some of your ignorance of the religion. After 9/11, everyone has a negative connotation to the term Islam or Muslim, but if you can't see the truth then why act like you saw it? Read the book...it will open you're eyes. And this is coming from a man of Christian faith. I like to hear the words from the horse's mouth so to speak...and you my friend have not heard that word. I gain nothing by defending Islam, but what I like to see is the truth shed on matters instead of negative propaganda just to feed the monster of stereotypes we already have in America. Read up on it and you'll slowly see what I mean. :thumbsup:
So, you assume i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?

OK, let's see, you just quoted some things, but referenced NOTHING!

Mohammed and a 9 year old, you provide once again, contextual evidence that it was ok. Like i said, its very telling of what is in a person's mind when they rationalize things like this to themselves.

What about Apostasy, how do you defend this practice of muslims? Not the NOI, but Muslims? How do you defend the treatment of women in this religion/culture? How do you defend a religion that says its ok to "lightly rap" your wife? As for you saying that the NOI and the jihadists and terrorists are not muslim, try telling them that. They would write you off as uneducated. You see, It's not how you view them, its how they view themselves. I mean, the only way you could say they aren't muslim is if you were muslim and didn't agree with the way they believed. As it is, you are christian and are telling me there is a wrong and a right way to worship allah, according to the book. Which if you read it, you would know that even the terrorists and NOI have a reference for how they act and the righteousness of their actions through the koran.

Tell me, have you read the early stories of the koran? Do you know what mohammed did to men who did not want to leave their religion or families for extended periods? Did you know that mohammed brutally murdered thousands of people in the name of his religion and defense of his tribe? Do you know what the concept of Jihad is?

I asked you to not make this personal and you called me ignorant to the religion. I would say you are less educated than me about it, but hey, to each his own, if it empowers you to say someone else is ignorant, hey, who am i to stop you?

In the end, if you really wanna debate this, you better be able to come correct cause im telling you, in this debate, i know my stuff. I will make this religion look like the biggest farce since the intelligence to the IRAQ war was proved false.
 

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So, you assume i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?

OK, let's see, you just quoted some things, but referenced NOTHING!

Mohammed and a 9 year old, you provide once again, contextual evidence that it was ok. Like i said, its very telling of what is in a person's mind when they rationalize things like this to themselves.

What about Apostasy, how do you defend this practice of muslims? Not the NOI, but Muslims? How do you defend the treatment of women in this religion/culture? How do you defend a religion that says its ok to "lightly rap" your wife? As for you saying that the NOI and the jihadists and terrorists are not muslim, try telling them that. They would write you off as uneducated. You see, It's not how you view them, its how they view themselves. I mean, the only way you could say they aren't muslim is if you were muslim and didn't agree with the way they believed. As it is, you are christian and are telling me there is a wrong and a right way to worship allah, according to the book. Which if you read it, you would know that even the terrorists and NOI have a reference for how they act and the righteousness of their actions through the koran.

Tell me, have you read the early stories of the koran? Do you know what mohammed did to men who did not want to leave their religion or families for extended periods? Did you know that mohammed brutally murdered thousands of people in the name of his religion and defense of his tribe? Do you know what the concept of Jihad is?

I asked you to not make this personal and you called me ignorant to the religion. I would say you are less educated than me about it, but hey, to each his own, if it empowers you to say someone else is ignorant, hey, who am i to stop you?

In the end, if you really wanna debate this, you better be able to come correct cause im telling you, in this debate, i know my stuff. I will make this religion look like the biggest farce since the intelligence to the IRAQ war was proved false.
You're giving me the runaround...and what kind of logic is saying that "i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?" What you are doing is what most people do...you take stories and words out of context. Just like the Holy Bible, the Quran is a living document. What are you trying to say about Islam? What are you trying to prove? I know the truth...I was taught the prinicples of Islam by a professor who has his doctorate in Arabic who practices Islam himself and he's also from the Middle East. This isn't a contest on who knows more...its about letting out the truth. And you my friend have a tainted opinion on a religion, excluding the fanatical, that has one of the most hospitible people on earth. Their religion promotes to give shelter to those in need, to give food to those who are in hunger, to give water for those who have thirst.

Basically what I'm asking is what are you trying to say? What is the summation of your argument?
 

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So, you assume i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?

OK, let's see, you just quoted some things, but referenced NOTHING!

Mohammed and a 9 year old, you provide once again, contextual evidence that it was ok. Like i said, its very telling of what is in a person's mind when they rationalize things like this to themselves.

What about Apostasy, how do you defend this practice of muslims? Not the NOI, but Muslims? How do you defend the treatment of women in this religion/culture? How do you defend a religion that says its ok to "lightly rap" your wife? As for you saying that the NOI and the jihadists and terrorists are not muslim, try telling them that. They would write you off as uneducated. You see, It's not how you view them, its how they view themselves. I mean, the only way you could say they aren't muslim is if you were muslim and didn't agree with the way they believed. As it is, you are christian and are telling me there is a wrong and a right way to worship allah, according to the book. Which if you read it, you would know that even the terrorists and NOI have a reference for how they act and the righteousness of their actions through the koran.

Tell me, have you read the early stories of the koran? Do you know what mohammed did to men who did not want to leave their religion or families for extended periods? Did you know that mohammed brutally murdered thousands of people in the name of his religion and defense of his tribe? Do you know what the concept of Jihad is?

I asked you to not make this personal and you called me ignorant to the religion. I would say you are less educated than me about it, but hey, to each his own, if it empowers you to say someone else is ignorant, hey, who am i to stop you?

In the end, if you really wanna debate this, you better be able to come correct cause im telling you, in this debate, i know my stuff. I will make this religion look like the biggest farce since the intelligence to the IRAQ war was proved false.
I have to go out and do somethings now, but I'll be back with this shortly...meanwhile just take a glimpse of this paper Top Ten Misconceptions about Islam. It may surprise you....
 
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Discussion Starter #4
You're giving me the runaround...and what kind of logic is saying that "i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?" What you are doing is what most people do...you take stories and words out of context. Just like the Holy Bible, the Quran is a living document. What are you trying to say about Islam? What are you trying to prove? I know the truth...I was taught the prinicples of Islam by a professor who has his doctorate in Arabic who practices Islam himself and he's also from the Middle East. This isn't a contest on who knows more...its about letting out the truth. And you my friend have a tainted opinion on a religion, excluding the fanatical, that has one of the most hospitible people on earth. Their religion promotes to give shelter to those in need, to give food to those who are in hunger, to give water for those who have thirst.

Basically what I'm asking is what are you trying to say? What is the summation of your argument?
I haven't read up on it because i don't agree with you? It was a question, that's usually what those little curvy things at the end of a sentence annotate.
I'm not taking words and stories out of context because the context is not clear. Was mohammed a warrior/ a prophet/ a peace loving man/ a pedophile?
The point of my argument is that there is no need for you to be offended for muslims. It's not wonder you don't answer what i write, its too much for you and i get that. You hear things you don't wanna hear that a "theocratic" professor, because of his "faith" would never lend any credence too? Is that hard? It's not.

Do you know what the concept of a living document vs a static one is?

living means its constantly being added too. Static means its staying the same. ARe you seriously trying to tell me that the KORAN is a Living document? Come on bro, please come correct.

Islam, while it has many many peaceful aspects, directly contradicts itself much of the time. It is a religion with violence ingrained in its roots. This is my argument.

Did your professor "lightly rap" his wife? Did he tell you about apostasy? The truth is that yes, there are many good things about islam, but too many bad things about it, that are directly defendable by the koran to put much societal value in it. I mean, why aren't those terrible christian terrorists being reigned in? They must be everywhere!

My opinion is tainted, but if you believe yours is any less tainted, then you need to do some more research. You can never exclude the fanatical, they are a part of it, and a much bigger part than you think.

Almost all religions are generous in the way you propose, but only one straps bombs to themselves and blow up innocent people as a means to an end, right?:dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have to go out and do somethings now, but I'll be back with this shortly...meanwhile just take a glimpse of this paper Top Ten Misconceptions about Islam. It may surprise you....
Bro, do you really want me to answer them all, because i can refute them all with words from the quran as references. Of course you'll say that I'm taking it out of context and i'll say, but Osama bin Laden begs to differ. And since he's muslim and you are not, don't you think he would know better?

I tell you what, i'll work on it and pull up some references i have, but im telling you, it will be easy.
 

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So, you assume i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?

OK, let's see, you just quoted some things, but referenced NOTHING!

Mohammed and a 9 year old, you provide once again, contextual evidence that it was ok. Like i said, its very telling of what is in a person's mind when they rationalize things like this to themselves.

What about Apostasy, how do you defend this practice of muslims? Not the NOI, but Muslims? How do you defend the treatment of women in this religion/culture? How do you defend a religion that says its ok to "lightly rap" your wife? As for you saying that the NOI and the jihadists and terrorists are not muslim, try telling them that. They would write you off as uneducated. You see, It's not how you view them, its how they view themselves. I mean, the only way you could say they aren't muslim is if you were muslim and didn't agree with the way they believed. As it is, you are christian and are telling me there is a wrong and a right way to worship allah, according to the book. Which if you read it, you would know that even the terrorists and NOI have a reference for how they act and the righteousness of their actions through the koran.

Tell me, have you read the early stories of the koran? Do you know what mohammed did to men who did not want to leave their religion or families for extended periods? Did you know that mohammed brutally murdered thousands of people in the name of his religion and defense of his tribe? Do you know what the concept of Jihad is?

I asked you to not make this personal and you called me ignorant to the religion. I would say you are less educated than me about it, but hey, to each his own, if it empowers you to say someone else is ignorant, hey, who am i to stop you?

In the end, if you really wanna debate this, you better be able to come correct cause im telling you, in this debate, i know my stuff. I will make this religion look like the biggest farce since the intelligence to the IRAQ war was proved false.

Thats my problem with this thread and your debate. So you don't believe it or agree with it...so what? Why not just move on and not lose sleep over it? Theres no need to drag someone elses religion through the mud because you don't agree with it. Noone here is forcing their viewpoints on you and demanding anything of you.

I'm going to leave this open and monitor it, but I'm warning all parties involved in the discussion: This will stay civil, there will be no name calling, and show some respect. If you all can't do that, the thread will be closed at the very least.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thats my problem with this thread and your debate. So you don't believe it or agree with it...so what? Why not just move on and not lose sleep over it? Theres no need to drag someone elses religion through the mud because you don't agree with it. Noone here is forcing their viewpoints on you and demanding anything of you.

I'm going to leave this open and monitor it, but I'm warning all parties involved in the discussion: This will stay civil, there will be no name calling, and show some respect. If you all can't do that, the thread will be closed at the very least.
What do you mean so what? Im having discourse with two people in the general discussion section of the board. I can't talk about this? What do you mean there is no need to drag someone else's religion through this because noone is forcing their viewpoints on me? ISNT THAT HOW THIS 5HIT STARTED!!!!!!!!

The guys put up a pic of the muslim dude and the white devil comment. and two people complained and PUSHED THEIR VIEWPOINTS ON ME and the REST OF THE FORUM, DID THEY NOT?

Noone is demanding anything of me, i am demanding it from them. Why be offended for someone? Why pretend like your view is the only one? I demand from them, Captain.

As for showing respect, you mean like calling someone ignorant for not agreeing with you? Like that?

Please, show less bias here!
 

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There is no bias, and you are all allowed to continue the discussion, I just wanted it to be known that religion is a sensitive subject and that some statements may be very offensive to other board members. All I'm asking is that you all exercise some restraint and use good judgement with how you approach the topic.

Thanks
 

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You're giving me the runaround...and what kind of logic is saying that "i haven't read up on it, because i don't agree with you?" What you are doing is what most people do...you take stories and words out of context. Just like the Holy Bible, the Quran is a living document. What are you trying to say about Islam? What are you trying to prove? I know the truth...I was taught the prinicples of Islam by a professor who has his doctorate in Arabic who practices Islam himself and he's also from the Middle East. This isn't a contest on who knows more...its about letting out the truth. And you my friend have a tainted opinion on a religion, excluding the fanatical, that has one of the most hospitible people on earth. Their religion promotes to give shelter to those in need, to give food to those who are in hunger, to give water for those who have thirst.

Basically what I'm asking is what are you trying to say? What is the summation of your argument?
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

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Islam, while it has many many peaceful aspects, directly contradicts itself much of the time. It is a religion with violence ingrained in its roots. This is my argument.
Ah c'mon, and Christianity doesn't??? I'd have to argue that christianity has a much more violent background than Islam. I hope thats not the basis of your arguement.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There is no bias, and you are all allowed to continue the discussion, I just wanted it to be known that religion is a sensitive subject and that some statements may be very offensive to other board members. All I'm asking is that you all exercise some restraint and use good judgement with how you approach the topic.

Thanks
There's not? you mean you don't think I suck? lol, j/k.
Look bro, just be fair in this discussion, that's all. You made a couple statements and i pretty much showed you how and why you were wrong. If all you meant to do was tell us that religion was a sensitive subject and couldn't see my calls for civility or non hijacking of threads that already stated that, why didn't you direct it at them? There is nothing offensive about these discussions or the white devil comment. There is overt political correctness. Very offensive is funny bro, there is nothing offensive to anyone here, even if there are muslims here, they can't refute direct quotations from the KORAN. How can they be offended of somethign that can be read from their own book? How can they expect people to always say, the prophet instead of mohammed, or everytime his name is said, we say, peace be upon him. Because that's how they want you to respect him. If a muslim came on here and told me, hey, you can't say his name without that, its disrespectful. Are you gonna erase my post for that? When did Chariya law get instituted on the board?

All i see is you taking intellects and ex's side on this.
BTW, nice to see VD back from that three month break for the racism, :thumbsup:.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
What does this add to the convo? Can i ask? What are you agreeing with, that muslims are some of the most generous people in the world? They may be, but its conjecture at best and completely unverifiable.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Ah c'mon, and Christianity doesn't??? I'd have to argue that christianity has a much more violent background than Islam. I hope thats not the basis of your arguement.
Have I ever said it was? Nope. I am not christian.

I am agnostic. I don't know what I don't know and will make no assumptions about it. The only thing i acknowledge is the existence of a higher being, be it GOD or whatever. That much is self evident.

That being said, your idea that Christianity has a much more violent background is a fallacy. Early christianity is ISLAM. Islam believes in the book and believes they are the third tome of GOD. They believe in Moses, his sons, jesus(but not as a holy man), so in essence, Islam's history is Christianities. If you look at the birth of Islam, you will find that it is indeed a very violent and completely brainwashing experience. Being an infidel allows for a lot of things in this religion.

Are you muslim? Why would you defend a religion whose holy book says its ok to kill you if you denounce allah?

Kill non-believers
4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


Guys, look up the name IBN Warraq. A muslim who is no longer. He wrote a great book called, "Why i am not a muslim"
 

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What does this add to the convo? Can i ask? What are you agreeing with, that muslims are some of the most generous people in the world? They may be, but its conjecture at best and completely unverifiable.
I can give a thumbs-up whenever the fukk I want, maybe I agree with the man and that I think it's a true statement through my eyes, I don't have to explain that to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I can give a thumbs-up whenever the fukk I want, maybe I agree with the man and that I think it's a true statement through my eyes, I don't have to explain that to you.
Why post then if your aim is to leave it as ambiguous and vague as possible? I wasn't being a jerk, and i apologize that you took it that way. I was simply asking. When i said, "what does this add to the convo?" you obviously took it wrong. I'm sorry, can you PLEASE explain yourself. I would like to have intelligent discourse in this thread and not just mindless agreeing and mob mentalities.`
 

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I haven't read up on it because i don't agree with you? It was a question, that's usually what those little curvy things at the end of a sentence annotate.
I'm not taking words and stories out of context because the context is not clear. Was mohammed a warrior/ a prophet/ a peace loving man/ a pedophile?
The point of my argument is that there is no need for you to be offended for muslims. It's not wonder you don't answer what i write, its too much for you and i get that. You hear things you don't wanna hear that a "theocratic" professor, because of his "faith" would never lend any credence too? Is that hard? It's not.

Do you know what the concept of a living document vs a static one is?

living means its constantly being added too. Static means its staying the same. ARe you seriously trying to tell me that the KORAN is a Living document? Come on bro, please come correct.

Islam, while it has many many peaceful aspects, directly contradicts itself much of the time. It is a religion with violence ingrained in its roots. This is my argument.

Did your professor "lightly rap" his wife? Did he tell you about apostasy? The truth is that yes, there are many good things about islam, but too many bad things about it, that are directly defendable by the koran to put much societal value in it. I mean, why aren't those terrible christian terrorists being reigned in? They must be everywhere!

My opinion is tainted, but if you believe yours is any less tainted, then you need to do some more research. You can never exclude the fanatical, they are a part of it, and a much bigger part than you think.

Almost all religions are generous in the way you propose, but only one straps bombs to themselves and blow up innocent people as a means to an end, right?:dunno:
You are so closed minded its not even funny...Muhammad being a pedaphile? Didn't we go over this? Or are you in the denial phase. If you want to call Muhammad a pedaphile then you would have to call every male in that society a pedaphile because that was a condition of the times...you must come to terms with that.

And the theocratic professor that you don't even know doesn't preach to me, he teaches me the principles and basics of Islam, such as the five pillars. The principles of Islam can have no slant because its available to all if you would only read it.

And who said I was offended? I specifically said that I'm not Muslim so I'm not offended. But I'm against all untrue stereotypes and racism so of course I stood up. You should be against it too but your hate for this religion is so strong that its pulling the wool over your eyes.

I'm not playing the game of diction and terms with you. You know what I meant by a living document...I'm not taking it any further...you can embark on that irrelevant tangent by yourself.

And I actually laughed out loud when you said Islam is wrapped around violence. Its stereotypes like just as this that enrages the true Muslims because its simply not true.

Most religions have negative aspects toward them...Christians get a bad rap in Africa because like the saying goes...The Europeans gave you a Bible and as they give you a Bible they took your land. This doesn't mean that all Christians steal land.

The guy who taught me the principles of Islam, he said for those who lightly rap (as in repremanding them) their wives are not following the principles of Islam. Allah would frown upon that. As for the Hijab, he said that it keeps women modest and keeps temptation to a minimum.

Another misconception...Terrorist are always looked as synonomous with Islam and its not the case. They fight in the name of Allah. They follow the five pillars which is the only requirement to become one with the Islam. BUT their principles highly contradict with the principles of the Koran. Allah wants peace among all people and Allah also said don't destroy unless you're in threat of being destroyed. What Allah says and what Terrorists do are in no way related. That's the notion you don't get. Just because you have Islam extremist, you can blame that on the true essence of Islam because Islam extremist do not practice the truest form of Islam...I thought that was pretty obvious...

And the last paragraph is just genius. If you truly believe that is an act of Islam then I'm wasting my time talking to you. You show me where it says blow up innocent children in the street in the Quran...then you might be right...but Terrorism does not equal Islam just like Christianity doesn't equal slavery...please tell me that last paragraph was just a joke.

Thats my problem with this thread and your debate. So you don't believe it or agree with it...so what? Why not just move on and not lose sleep over it? Theres no need to drag someone elses religion through the mud because you don't agree with it. Noone here is forcing their viewpoints on you and demanding anything of you.

I'm going to leave this open and monitor it, but I'm warning all parties involved in the discussion: This will stay civil, there will be no name calling, and show some respect. If you all can't do that, the thread will be closed at the very least.
You can count on me not to take it too far :thumbsup:

What do you mean so what? Im having discourse with two people in the general discussion section of the board. I can't talk about this? What do you mean there is no need to drag someone else's religion through this because noone is forcing their viewpoints on me? ISNT THAT HOW THIS 5HIT STARTED!!!!!!!!

The guys put up a pic of the muslim dude and the white devil comment. and two people complained and PUSHED THEIR VIEWPOINTS ON ME and the REST OF THE FORUM, DID THEY NOT?

Noone is demanding anything of me, i am demanding it from them. Why be offended for someone? Why pretend like your view is the only one? I demand from them, Captain.

As for showing respect, you mean like calling someone ignorant for not agreeing with you? Like that?

Please, show less bias here!
Who's pressing their opinion on who? I'm standing against racism and stereotypes. Does anyone here have a problem with that? You have an opinion and I respect the fact that its your opinion but its wrong. A guy with a Ph.D is telling you are wrong...you don't know more than him....stop it.
 

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Bro, do you really want me to answer them all, because i can refute them all with words from the quran as references. Of course you'll say that I'm taking it out of context and i'll say, but Osama bin Laden begs to differ. And since he's muslim and you are not, don't you think he would know better?

I tell you what, i'll work on it and pull up some references i have, but im telling you, it will be easy.
You're watching too much FOX news my friend :laugh: Osama Bin Laden is not Muslim. My professor (who happens to be Muslim) even stated that Bin Laden nor the NOI is part of Islam. A Muslim doesn't go on a holy war or kill people. I thought you would at least understand that. Just because one says he's Muslim and fighting for Allah, doesn't mean that he's Muslim. Being Muslim isn't done by words but through actions.
 

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Premium Member
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9,456 Posts
Thats my problem with this thread and your debate. So you don't believe it or agree with it...so what? Why not just move on and not lose sleep over it? Theres no need to drag someone elses religion through the mud because you don't agree with it. Noone here is forcing their viewpoints on you and demanding anything of you.

I'm going to leave this open and monitor it, but I'm warning all parties involved in the discussion: This will stay civil, there will be no name calling, and show some respect. If you all can't do that, the thread will be closed at the very least.
You have my word Cap :thumbsup:
 

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Premium Member
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9,456 Posts
Bro, do you really want me to answer them all, because i can refute them all with words from the quran as references. Of course you'll say that I'm taking it out of context and i'll say, but Osama bin Laden begs to differ. And since he's muslim and you are not, don't you think he would know better?

I tell you what, i'll work on it and pull up some references i have, but im telling you, it will be easy.
:facepalm: What are talking about??? A Muslim woman made that article.....are you willing to say that you can refute from what she is saying :laugh: This woman has been a Muslim all her life, and what she said was clearly factual because it the exact same things my professor told me. Saying that terrorists are Muslim, tells me how much you (and many other Americans) know about the subject.
 

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Spike Spiegel
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7,078 Posts
I'm a Muslim. I've argued to much over religion in my life time and I really can't be bothered to do so here. Good posts by many people and Banky, you have so much to learn. Honestly. It's a well known fact that Muslims have lived peacefully with the so called 'dis believers'. Look at how the Arabs conquered Spain and settled their for 500 years, living peacefully alongside the Christians. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) said 'they have their beliefs, and we have ours'. He also says to be respectful of other peoples beliefs. I'm a Muslim and I don't persecute anybody for their beliefs. It's a Muslim's job to give dawah (knowledge) about Islam, and if the person you give it to rejects the Dawah, then it isn't your duty to kill him.. but rather to pray to Allah for that man to find the right path.
 

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aka Dr. Real
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8,103 Posts
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Thanks man...just trying to get the truth out.

Ah c'mon, and Christianity doesn't??? I'd have to argue that christianity has a much more violent background than Islam. I hope thats not the basis of your arguement.
I'm of Baptist Christain faith. And I would agree that they had a great hand in slavery and they also fought in the crusades as well as Muslims. But some people fail to realize that back in these times...it was a real cruel world. A very primitive world. You can look back now and say wow Muhammad is a pedaphile...but if they had a cure of small pox, malaria, and all the above then yes the fountain of youth would have lasted long enough for kids to be kids and adults to be adults but that's just not the case. You're on to something though :thumbsup:

There's not? you mean you don't think I suck? lol, j/k.
Look bro, just be fair in this discussion, that's all. You made a couple statements and i pretty much showed you how and why you were wrong. If all you meant to do was tell us that religion was a sensitive subject and couldn't see my calls for civility or non hijacking of threads that already stated that, why didn't you direct it at them? There is nothing offensive about these discussions or the white devil comment. There is overt political correctness. Very offensive is funny bro, there is nothing offensive to anyone here, even if there are muslims here, they can't refute direct quotations from the KORAN. How can they be offended of somethign that can be read from their own book? How can they expect people to always say, the prophet instead of mohammed, or everytime his name is said, we say, peace be upon him. Because that's how they want you to respect him. If a muslim came on here and told me, hey, you can't say his name without that, its disrespectful. Are you gonna erase my post for that? When did Chariya law get instituted on the board?

All i see is you taking intellects and ex's side on this.
BTW, nice to see VD back from that three month break for the racism, :thumbsup:.

What does this add to the convo? Can i ask? What are you agreeing with, that muslims are some of the most generous people in the world? They may be, but its conjecture at best and completely unverifiable.
If you knew the five pillars of faith and read the Koran thoroughly then you would know the acts of a generous Muslim. And please quit crying to the mods...they're just doing their job. When they edit my posts I don't cry...people need to relax with that.

Have I ever said it was? Nope. I am not christian.

I am agnostic. I don't know what I don't know and will make no assumptions about it. The only thing i acknowledge is the existence of a higher being, be it GOD or whatever. That much is self evident.

That being said, your idea that Christianity has a much more violent background is a fallacy. Early christianity is ISLAM. Islam believes in the book and believes they are the third tome of GOD. They believe in Moses, his sons, jesus(but not as a holy man), so in essence, Islam's history is Christianities. If you look at the birth of Islam, you will find that it is indeed a very violent and completely brainwashing experience. Being an infidel allows for a lot of things in this religion.
Are you muslim? Why would you defend a religion whose holy book says its ok to kill you if you denounce allah?

Kill non-believers
4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


Guys, look up the name IBN Warraq. A muslim who is no longer. He wrote a great book called, "Why i am not a muslim"
The bold is the largest farse of a statement in the thread. Early Christianity still saw Jesus born without sex or parthenogenesis, still saw him as a divine being, and still believed that he died for our sins. Islam on the other hand believe that Jesus was born without sex but they believe that he didn't get crucified and he didn't die for our sins. He's just another prophet of Allah.

Second bolded statement...may I ask...how can a religion that preaches equality, that preaches to be one with the world and other religions...how can that religion, Islam, call alot of things infidels? You're watching too many Osama Bin Laden tapes. He doesn't follow the true essence of Islam...he kills people, he was one of the masterminds of 9/11...how could he be Muslim? You're not a Muslim if you kill people. That's like Jeffrey Dahmer still calling himself a Christain after all the things he's done...

By the way...Allah IS the Muslim world. To become one with Islam you have to show discipline and dedication. So therefore when you denounce Allah, you arent just quitting a religion. You are disrespecting Allah and when you disrespect Allah, they believe the ultimate price must be paid. Do I agree with it? NO but it again you're never supposed to turn you're back on God. In Christianity it gives you that same message but in a more subtle way. Bascially in Christianity, if you denounce God, you have no more protection, Satan can take your soul, the miracles you once had can disappear, and when you die you will go to hell...very similar but is obviously more extreme and blunt.
 
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