Rocky Marciano vs Archie Moore, the Rocks last fight

Hey, Bill. Thanks for starting this discussion. Later, as I come to have more time to spend here. I want to talk more about the Marciano-Moore fight!

I really liked this fight! And every time I've watched the fight again ... the whole fight on tape ... two different tapes of this fight actually, that was shot from two different angles or different angles with the more limited technology that was available back then. Still I'm seeing more things about the fight that I hadn't noticed each time I've watched both tapes of that same fight.

Of course, Marciano won the fight, and won by a knockout in a late round ... but it really was a great fight!

One of the things that I was most notably impressed about Archie Moore in that fight was how he fainted with his head and shoulders ... and made Marciano miss alot of punches ... and in how also how he picked off and was able to block so many of Marciano's punches even combination punches, and did so even when Marciano had Moore cornered in the ring.

Archie Moore was a very clever and great fighter. He didn't win, but still I'm very impressed as for the way he carried himself and the way he fought that fight.

I'll say more about it later.

Again, thanks for starting this thread.

JCC

Going into this fight! Archie Moore was the light heavyweight champion of the world ... there were only 8 weight divisons in those days.

Archie Moore had been pressing hard for a fight with Rocky Mariano for the world heavyweight title and came to the point that fans were demanding it.

Archie Moore was a great fighter in that era. Then at age 38, going into the fight with Maricano, Moore's professional record was 167 fights, 22 losses, 6 draws, with 111 KO's.

Archie Moore was a very skilled fighter going into the fight with a younger Marciano. Moore was a very clever and tricky fighter, he could box, and he could punch. He was an all around great fighter.

There was no more worthy a contender for Marciano at the time than Archie Moore, and the Marciano camp believed that Moore may would be Marciano's toughest fight.

Going into the fight ... in Moore's last three fights, he had Ko'd Harold Johnson and Carl "Bobo" Olson and decisioned Nino Valdez. Since winning the world light heavyweight championship title from Joey Maxin in 1952, and Moore had successfully defended the title four times.

Only Ezzard Charles, whom Moore fought in the mid 1940s, had been able to dominate Moore. Ezzard fought Moore three times without defeat, decisioning him twice and knocking him out once, which was a considerable feat since Mooore had only been KO'd four times out of 167 fights before his fight with Marciano. Moore also had won his last 20 fights going into the fight with Marciano.

The fight was schuduled for September 20, 1955, and was postponed one day because of the threat of a hurricane moving up the Atlantic Coast.

The largest crowd ever to see Marciano fight, 61, 574 fans showed up at Yankee Stadium while hundreds of thousands crammed closed-circuit-television theaters across the country to see the Marciano-Moore fight.

The fight would gross $ 2,248,117, then second only to the second Dempsey-Tunny fight in earnings.

JC

The Auctioneer said:

I still say that there were a number of fighters that could have beaten Rocky , only if he fought more and the same guys more than ounce. He obviously got out at the right time.

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I think your right! And while Marciano is my favorite fighter, I will admit there to be alot of hype out there among Marciano fans.

But if he had continued to fight ... and didn't retire when he did, eventually someone would have beat him.

Recently, it was brought to my attention that at the time of the Marciano-Moore fight! Nino Valdez ... was the leading contender in the heavyweight division. But he was never given a title shot. He never did get a title shot!

Some say the Marciano people were ducking him, not Marciano ... but his manager Al Weill did not want Marciano to fight Valdez.

Marciano was somewhat upset that he didn't fight more often than he did.

Of course, his manager Al Weill controlled that, but Marciano did manage to have successfully defended the title 5 times before retiring.

I think if there had been a Marciano-Valdez fight! It would have been a good fight! But I don't think Valdez could have beaten Marciano. But Nino Valdez was really good fighter.

When I recently watched the tape of the Marciano-Moore fight again, of the whole fight. I noticed Valdez was there that night, and did a walk through in the ring, and it was announced that he was at the time of that fight the leading heavyweight contender.

If Marciano had not of retired when he did. I think he may could have continued to keep the title for a good while longer. I see no one out there at the time I think who could have beaten him.

But as I understand it there are a number of reasons why Marciano retired when he did, and why he did, and it was much for reasons he did not like his manager Al Weill (he was under contract with) and the way he was treating him.

It was the money!

Marciano had long since believed Weill had been cheating him.

Charley Goldman, Marciano's trainer, he and Goldman had a great relationship. But as for Mariano's manager Al Weill, they never did even from the very beginning really.

If it had not been for Weill, and Marciano had been treated better by him, he may would have stayed longer before retiring.

But at the time Marciano retired, he had alot of money, and after retiring he continued to have alot of money, and he was comfortable. He really didn't need to fight any more.

JCC

The Auctioneer said:

Thanks.......where did you get your copy of the Moore/Rocky fight?

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I'll send you a private message on the board later and give you the guys name ... contact information .. and how you can get the tape.

Just want to now say a little more about the Marciano-Moore fight ... as I saw it, any way.

In the first round both fighters .. were cautious.

But Moore suprised me ... and the fans .. in the second round with a solid right in the early part of the second round that caught the Marciano ... squarely on the chin that dropped him to the canvas.

Marciano .. was down on his right knee with both gloves braced against the floor. He's known to have said later after the fight that he did not hear the count! And got up instinctively at two ... his corner had yelled at him to take the full 8 count which an experienced and smart fighter would do. But obviously, Marciano didn't do it. He instinctively got up at two ... without thinking about it.

Marciano had caught Moore with a good left hook ... and followed with an over hand right and the punch missed which put him off balance .. and Moore countered with a right that caught Mariano squarely on the chin that send him to the canavas.

It was not a slip .. it was a legitmate knock down.

The roar of the crowd as well as the knock down encouraged Moore and edged him on.

Moore was wanting to to press Marciano at that point in the fight! But the referee Harry Kessler, messed up, caught up in the excitement of the moment, continued counting when he shouldn't have and reached five before he realized his mistake and stopped which gave Marciano more time to recover from the knock down.

In a championship fight back then and for that fight! The count ends ... once the fighter has regained his feet.

As for whether the outcome of the Marciano-Moore fight would have been different if it had not been for the referee Harry Kessler's mistake? No one could possibly know that. Maybe, maybe not!

But Archie Moore was in fact enraged by it!

In his autobiorgraphy, Moore called the chapter on his fight with Marciano ... "Fouled."

Moore claimed the referee Harry Kessler had cost him his big chance at winning the world heavyweight title by not allowing him to go after Marciano immediately, which Kessler as referee should have allowed Moore to do.

Now I'm not saying that it may would have made a different in the outcome of the fight, if it had not been for the referee's mistake, however. It's possible, but no one could possibly know that according to my way of thinking any way.

About the knock down some Marciano fans later remembering the fight would say that what Moore had on his hands was a wounded tiger, and Marciano's pride was damaged more by the knock down than his body. Maybe! I don't know. So I'll just leave that up to the reader to decide ... if they saw the fight and remember what happen. That is, if any one here is old enough to remember the fight who saw it, and has that good a memory.

I wasn't old enough to see the fight at the time ... but I have the tape .. of that fight ... round per round, and just recently had watched the fight again before posting.

But I did see Marciano return to his corner at the end of the round with a cut over his left eye ... and his nose was bleeding at the end of that round.

In the third round, Marciano came out of his corner ... with his left eye somewhat swollen.

But the six round, may well could have been the real turning point in the fight for Marciano.

Marciano came out of his corner in his relentless and crouching style, bobbing and weaving .. and caught Moore with a left hook, and a jab, followed by an overhand right!

And floored Moore, not all those punches landed solid (but some did). If all those punches had have been solid? Marciano may would have gotten the knockout then in that round, and the fight would have been over.

Moore came up off the canvas at the count of four!

Marciano rushed Moore, and they were trading punches fighting toe-to-toe ... as Marciano had Moore backed up against the ropes. That's the place where Marciano was especially most dangerous in his fights.

But Moore was a tricky fighter ... he would boob and weave ... and cover fainting with his head and shoulders ... and was hard to hit with single punches ... and was hard for Marciano to hit him with single punches.

Moore made Marciano miss a lot of punches and often made Marciano miss punches! Marciano had to get him by throwing combination punches .. and did.

After throwing some good combination punches ... in which some of them landed ... Moore went down again.

Moore was a very experienced and smart fighter ... and he took the full eight count ... but come to his feet a little shaky!

Marciano ... smelled blood and wanting to take full advantage ... immediately became even all the more aggressive and tryed all the more then to get the knockout.

At this point in the fight! In this round, both fighters Marciano and Moore ... appeared on the verge of total exhaustion.

Now I just want to add this that it's always been hard for heavyweights to go long rounds in fights. Heavyweights have to have to pace themselves more.

A 10 or 15 rounder ... has always been harder on heavyweights ... than for lighter weight fighters.

Marciano and Moore, did slug it out alot in this fight! It was no boring fight!

They gave the fans a really good fight!

By the seventh round, they both continued to slug it out.

In the eight round, Marciano throw a looping right to the head, a good solid punch ... that floored Moore ... and really dazed him .. his eyes ... appeared vacant.

It appeared that Marciano may had gotten the knockout.

But at the referee's count if four ... the bell ended the round.

In the corner, the ring doctor ... Dr. Vincent Nardiello checked up on Moore's condition in the corner ... and asked Moore .. if he was okay? And asked him if he wanted to continue?

Moore, being the great gladiator and fighter that he has always been told him. "I'm too, a champion. And I'll go down fighting."

Of course, Archie Moore was champ too. He came into that fight as the undisputed light heavyweight champion of the world.

Hey, you got to really be salty ... to go pro .. and especially so with the kind of over all better talent there was in the fight game in boxing back in those days.

Early in the ninth round ... Marciano .. worked Moore backing him against the ropes ... throwing some devastating combination punches enough of which were right on target .. which overwhelmed an exhausted Moore at this point ... and Marciano had finally gotten the knockout.

Moore sank grudging to the canvas ... his mind would not give up and quit! But his legs .. gave out!

That is usually the first thing that will go out on a fighter ... his legs, when he gets tired and has been hurt!

Both fighters were exhausted by the end of this fight, and the fans got their money's worth.

It was one helluava fight!

I salute both those two great guys ... two great fighters .. and two great world champions ... Rocky Marciano and Archie Moore for their great contribution to sport.

JCC

Just want now to fill in some gaps ... it was unusual an even then not always happen ... but the gloves put on Marciano and Moore in the ring were the smaller 6 once gloves.

Of course, the smaller gloves aren't ever allowed any more. But back in those days they were some times allowed.

In a world title fight the gloves were always put on in the ring, not in the dressing room. To keep someone form slipping in a horse shoe.

There's too much money, involved in a world title fight, you see. There's too much at stake!

So more percautions are taken and that's why in world title fights the gloves were put on the fighters in the ring not in the dressing room.

I feel to also mention only for reasons that some fights fans may not know that also in fights before fights a fighters hand must be checked too make sure that too much tape wasn't used in getting his hands wrapped. This would be done before the fight in the dressing room.

And the reason for it? If too much tape in used in a fighters hands being wrapped? It would be like getting hit with a rock!

Any way, the smaller gloves 6 once gloves Marciano and Moore wore in this fight no doubt obviously had made for some different just a little in punching than the more standard 8 once gloves.

I've watched the tape of this fight many times. And every time I've watched this fight ... and studied the fight I've seen more than I had seen the last time I had watched it.

What you see in a fight will depend on your experince.

If youve been a fighter ... or fighter trainer you are going to see things in a fight that alot of fight fans won't see.

For example, my father had been a fighter back in the vary late 1940's and throughout the 1950's first as a featherweight and later as a lightweight.

I was a fighter first as middleweight and later as a light heavyweight in the late 1960's and early 1970's, as an amateur boxer. However, I didn't fight pro ... as my father did. And he had by far more experience than I had.

And when he watched this tape ... he saw even more than was happening in the fight than I did.

I just thought it may would be interesting if I just mentioned this.

If you want to be a fighter? There is much to know and learn.

If a youngster today, were to want to take up boxing and wanting to learn how to fight? Among others things I would tell them to get some fight tapes ... but not just the short films clips of highlights of great fights.

For you can't learn much by those ... but some tapes of whole fights ... round per round of some of the old great fights of guys like Rocky Marciano, Archie Moore and of other greats in boxing. And to watch those tapes, and to keep watching those tapes and your going see and learn how it's done.

Back in my day in boxing, the sport was much more popular than it is today. Even amatuer boxing was too.

And the fights were more televised regularly even weekly in those days, and one of my most favorite fighters back then in the pro's was the outstanding middleweight and world champion D-ick Tiger ... later a light heavyweight ... he was one of the greats.

I learned alot from watching him fight and studying his fights. And I copied his style ... it worked for me, along with the training I received in the gym.

There's so much to know, so much to learn.

By the way, there were some great walk through's in the ring before the fight on this tape ... the featherweight champion of the world at the time ... the great Sandy Saddler, and other greats such as Max Baer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Sugar Ray Robinson and many others at this great fight that I enjoyed seeing watching of the Marciano-Moore fight.

In those days, there wasn't a lot of attempts at dancing and clinching by fighters in the ring, and no one world champion in the weight divisions as it is today, and when they stepped in the ring, these guys came to FIGHT!

And the fights were more thrilling and filled with drama and danger that rarely would apply to modern contests today in boxing today.

If your a youngster and your really wanting to learn how to fight? Get you some tapes of those old guys, and watch that tape and you just keep watching it and you'll see how it done.

Not only am I disappointed with the state of affairs of boxing today, and over all with boxing seen today, but also I'm disappopinted by the way many fighters are being trained and taught today too in many cases.


JCC