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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
IMO this is one of the greatest match ups of all time. They both had a similar style, and both were relentless. IMO this fight would just come down to who had the better stats. Marciano had power, strength, stamina, determination and will to win, chin, and variety of punches to knock you out with. Frazier had speed, defence, weight, and accuracy on Marciano. IMO their heart is even. IMO Marciano and Frazier would just pound each other but Marciano's power and heavier blosws would just get to Frazier, and also, you can never rule out Marciano's "Suzie Q" that could knock any person out with just one shot.
 

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This would have been a classic war.. just put them in a phone booth and let them go at it, thats how this fight would have went, back and forth slugfest both fighters getting hurt... i would go with Marciano by tko late rounds, really could go either way, Joe also had that awesome Left Hook that could take anyone out at any time :)
 

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Ohh, i didn't know that Fraizer was fast, and he only had a good left hook..

Well i read in another thread that you said that the other guy was probably the best, so if Fraizer is so equally matched, does that mean he is one of the top 5 or 10 Boxers ever?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Frazier wasn't that fast, just faster than Marciano. Frazier is one of the top 10 boxers of all time, sort of towards the bottom of the list IMO. Frazier had the greatest left hook of all time, and Marciano had the greatest 1 punch KO power in his right hand of all time.
 

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^^^^^^^^^^

Kool thanks..

Of topic, but was Fraizer a greater fighter then Holyfield, Leonox Lewis or Muhammed Ali, you say that the marchano guy is better then Ali so i just asked because didn't Fraizer beat Ali in some kind of big match
 

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r.i.p EDDIE said:
^^^^^^^^^^

Kool thanks..

Of topic, but was Fraizer a greater fighter then Holyfield, Leonox Lewis or Muhammed Ali, you say that the marchano guy is better then Ali so i just asked because didn't Fraizer beat Ali in some kind of big match
This is subject to debate Eddie. For instance I believe Holyfield belongs on the all-time great list (higher than Frazier in fact) and Bill begs to differ with me. Personally I believe Ali (I'm someone who worships Joe Louis) is the best Heavyweight ever while I rate Marciano around 7 or 8. I rank Lennox Lewis at number 13: The best of the near-greats.

The point is, if you ask 100 different boxing enthusists to give you their top 10 list you'll get 100 different answers. This is a highly subjective field you're entering and nothing beats personal observation!
Watch the greats fight. Watch them a lot. In no time people will be asking YOU for your all-time list!

Poet
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
r.i.p EDDIE said:
^^^^^^^^^^

Kool thanks..

Of topic, but was Fraizer a greater fighter then Holyfield, Leonox Lewis or Muhammed Ali, you say that the marchano guy is better then Ali so i just asked because didn't Fraizer beat Ali in some kind of big match

I beleive Marciano would beat Ali in a fight. But that doesn't mean he should rank higher. For example, here is my top 10 list:



1. Joe Louis: A very rounded fighter and had 25 title defences in 11 years as champion. His main problem was his chin, which is what brings him down in head to head lists.

2. Muhammad Ali: Overall and overrated fighter. People like to buy into his "I am the greatest" rants and screams. He's a very good fighter head to head, and was heavyweight champion 3 times.

3. Rocky Marciano: Undefeated and packed very easily the best 1 punch KO power in his right hand of all time. He nearly killed a person with it, and knocked sooooooooo many others out cold for minutes at a time with it.

4. Larry Holmes: Was heavyweight champion for 7 1/2 years. Had 20 succesful title defences, and lost his title in a very close and controversial decision to Michael Spinks. In the rematch for the title with him, he beat Spinks around the ring and got robbed of the decision in more than 70% (estimate) of peoples eyes who saw the fight. Had a great comeback in the 90's when he was in his 40's too. Possesed the best jab in heavyweight history.

5. Jack Dempsey: Very good head to head and very aggressive. Weakish title reign, but an ATG fighter.

6. Jack Johnson: Heavyweight champion for 7 years. A very good, techincal fighter.

7. George Foreman: In his first career he was a wild swinging slugger. He was the 2nd hardest hitter of all time only after Earnie Shavers. In his comeback he became the oldest heavyweight champion of all time when he regained the title (45 years old). He was getting beat up the whole fight and landed a somewhat lucky, set up punch to KO Michael Moorer.

8. Joe Frazier: Greatest left hook of all time. Was the first of 5 to beat Muhammad Ali. Lost his 2 rematches to Ali though. Was KO'd by George Foreman when he lost the title. One of the greatest body punchers of all time, and very aggresive.

9. Sonny Liston: Had one of the heaviest jabs of all time, and had bonecrushing power in his uppercut and left hook. He is another fighter who does good head to head. He took a dive against Ali in the rematch, and the first match remains a mystery. He really did injure his shoulder badly, and that was medically proven, but he still remains one of the most mysterious champions of all time.

10. Ezzard Charles.: He beat Joe Louis for the title in 1947, continued to reign until he was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott with a great left uppercut. He was an extremely good fighter, and fought competively with Rocky Marciano in 1954. He was pounded into the ground in the rematch though.

Ive changed my #10 spot a bunch of times. It depends what mood I'm in. Usually it will cycle between Lewis, Charles, and Tunney.
 

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Charles and Tunney aren't on my list not because I don't think they're all-time greats: I do! I rate them both at Light-Heavyweight and with one exception I NEVER rate fighters in more than one division. Tunney had maybe five fights of his 60+ fight career at Heavyweight; all the rest were at Light-Heavyweight. Charles spent roughly the same amount of time in the Heavyweight and Light-Heavyweight divisions, but since I feel he was the greatest ever Light-Heavyweight that's the division I rate him at.

My one exception to the one division rule: Ray Robinson. I regard Robinson so highly as the greatest fighter ever regardless of division that I chose to honor him by rating him in two divisions (Welterweight and Middleweight), something I do with no other fighter.

Poet
 

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Frazier all the way

I've always regarded Marciano as being overrated. Larry Holmes said it best: "He was a young guy beating older guys; I'm an old guy beating younger guys." People make a big deal of how he never weighed more than 200lbs, but neither did Floyd Patterson, and Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles were both light heavyweight! Marciano had two things: 1) a crushing right hand; 2) unstoppable determination.

Joe Frazier, on the other hand, is the #2 heavyweight of the division's Golden Age. He was bigger than Marciano; in terms of chin, while Foreman knocked him down, he never knocked him out, and Marciano did not hit harder than Foreman; he managed to stop George Chuvalo, who is one of the toughest men who ever walked the face of the Earth; and although both are known as formidable, relentless punchers, Frazier had access to defensive skills that Marciano could only dream of (Frazier was get a piece of, but hard to nail dead on). Marciano, on the other hand, was just plain easy to tag. Compared to Marciano's footwork, Frazier was a ballet dancer. Furthermore, it is my opinion that Frazier's left hook hit with greater force than Marciano's right cross.

This one goes until Marciano's body fails him. Either because of a cut or just simply being physically broken down, Frazier is going to get him out of there. Frazier TKO11.

I wrote about Joe Frazier here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've always regarded Marciano as being overrated. Larry Holmes said it best: "He was a young guy beating older guys; I'm an old guy beating younger guys." People make a big deal of how he never weighed more than 200lbs, but neither did Floyd Patterson, and Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles were both light heavyweight! Marciano had two things: 1) a crushing right hand; 2) unstoppable determination.

Joe Frazier, on the other hand, is the #2 heavyweight of the division's Golden Age. He was bigger than Marciano; in terms of chin, while Foreman knocked him down, he never knocked him out, and Marciano did not hit harder than Foreman; he managed to stop George Chuvalo, who is one of the toughest men who ever walked the face of the Earth; and although both are known as formidable, relentless punchers, Frazier had access to defensive skills that Marciano could only dream of (Frazier was get a piece of, but hard to nail dead on). Marciano, on the other hand, was just plain easy to tag. Compared to Marciano's footwork, Frazier was a ballet dancer. Furthermore, it is my opinion that Frazier's left hook hit with greater force than Marciano's right cross.

This one goes until Marciano's body fails him. Either because of a cut or just simply being physically broken down, Frazier is going to get him out of there. Frazier TKO11.

I wrote about Joe Frazier here.
The only two times Marciano was dropped was a flash knockdown, and another where he was tagged hard and moving in, not firmly planted. Both men thought that the shot they nailed him smack on the chin with was hard enough to knock someone out cold with, but to their dismay Marciano got up pissed off. Walcott dropped Marciano with the same shot that he knocked Charles cold with.

In terms of 1 punch KO power, Marciano was better than Foreman, but in all around power Foreman was the harder puncher. Marciano had the best stamina of all time. He used to hit a 300 lb heavybag for 60 rounds like most guys hit a 100lb heavybag for 12 rounds. Marciano was never tired and he picked up his workrate, never slowing down. The farther along the fight gets, the better it's going to get because both men were slow starters. Marciano had better defence than you would think. A lot of the shots missed him by centimeters, but missed all the same. There is a highlight video of it on youtube.
 

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The only two times Marciano was dropped was a flash knockdown, and another where he was tagged hard and moving in, not firmly planted. Both men thought that the shot they nailed him smack on the chin with was hard enough to knock someone out cold with, but to their dismay Marciano got up pissed off. Walcott dropped Marciano with the same shot that he knocked Charles cold with.

In terms of 1 punch KO power, Marciano was better than Foreman, but in all around power Foreman was the harder puncher. Marciano had the best stamina of all time. He used to hit a 300 lb heavybag for 60 rounds like most guys hit a 100lb heavybag for 12 rounds. Marciano was never tired and he picked up his workrate, never slowing down. The farther along the fight gets, the better it's going to get because both men were slow starters. Marciano had better defence than you would think. A lot of the shots missed him by centimeters, but missed all the same. There is a highlight video of it on youtube.
I never said that Marciano had a bad chin; I just implied that Frazier's was better, and that Frazier could take Marciano's artillery. :cool: It's not a small thing. In a battle of punchers, my first question is always "who catches better?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I never said that Marciano had a bad chin; I just implied that Frazier's was better, and that Frazier could take Marciano's artillery. :cool: It's not a small thing. In a battle of punchers, my first question is always "who catches better?"
I never said that you said Marciano had a bad chin, I knew what you meant, I was just saying why I thought Marciano had the better chin.
 
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