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The Professor
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8,572 Posts
Jones hands down. Simply too elusive and fast for Hagler. Jones isn't going to be stupid and try to do what Tommy Hearns did, he's just going to out box his ass, which he will be able to do easily. Hagler was not great with fighters that didn't come right at him. Jones UD.
 

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Spike Spiegel
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7,078 Posts
Jones hands down. Simply too elusive and fast for Hagler. Jones isn't going to be stupid and try to do what Tommy Hearns did, he's just going to out box his ass, which he will be able to do easily. Hagler was not great with fighters that didn't come right at him. Jones UD.
Definitely agree. To me, Hagler is the greatest middleweight of all time (along with Sugar Ray, Carlos Monzon & of course.. Bernard Hopkins), but Jones would have beaten him via UD. However, if Hagler catches Jones Jr flush, then it's lights out.
 

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The Professor
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8,572 Posts
Good luck running from Hagler. Hagler wins by KO in the 4th.
LOL

Hagler didn't KO Vito Antuofermo or Willy the worm in the first fights with them. He couldn't KO an aged Bennie Brisco either. These are big fights he had with good technical boxers. None of these guys were ever called Super Man, except maybe Bennie but that was a Philadelphia thing. Roy was Super Man at 160, he doesn't come close to getting KOed.
 

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Premium Member
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9,662 Posts
Hagler would move too slow to get off good shots, just like he was doing for the first half of the leonard fight, Only thing is Jones wouldnt get tired, he would keep it up for 12 rounds
That Hagler was a fraction of what he once was. He was much slower, battle worn, and he was just slipping all around.
 

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The Professor
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8,572 Posts
Jone's china chin is gonna be shattered against Hagler. As for that fight that Hagler fought with Leonard that was not even half of a prime Hagler.
and plus Leonard targeted the fight when Hagler lost that War, Destruct, and Destroy motive
My examples were prime Hagler only ;)

Hagler could not knock out people he had to chase down for the most part. With Roy, he'd be doing nothing but this. Also, Roy was never even knocked down at 160, so get that china chin nonsense out of here. You could make a case no one really landed anything significant on his chin, but this included Bernard Hopkins himself. Then at 168 James Toney couldn't even get to him. Those two guys right there were better middleweights than anyone Hagler fought. Hagler just doesn't land shots with Jones. And if you bother to study how Hagler fights, you will notice he does not turn up the heat unless the other guy does. He will not exert himself unless he feels the other guy is doing something to him. He would consider Roy a clown who didn't want to fight him, he wouldn't even realize he was losing every round almost. Mentally he was just deficient in that area.
 

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Premium Member
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9,662 Posts
My examples were prime Hagler only ;)

Hagler could not knock out people he had to chase down for the most part. With Roy, he'd be doing nothing but this. Also, Roy was never even knocked down at 160, so get that china chin nonsense out of here. You could make a case no one really landed anything significant on his chin, but this included Bernard Hopkins himself. Then at 168 James Toney couldn't even get to him. Those two guys right there were better middleweights than anyone Hagler fought. Hagler just doesn't land shots with Jones. And if you bother to study how Hagler fights, you will notice he does not turn up the heat unless the other guy does. He will not exert himself unless he feels the other guy is doing something to him. He would consider Roy a clown who didn't want to fight him, he wouldn't even realize he was losing every round almost. Mentally he was just deficient in that area.
While you're right about Hagler really turning up the heat, if he doesn't like you, he will come after you. There is a good chance he would hate Roy by fight night, and he would like nothing more than to rip off his head. Thomas Hearns was a great middleweight. He was much better at welterweight, but he was still great at middle. Hagler is above both Hopkins and Toney's level, and Hagler is better than them in almost everyway. They had him in defence and speed, but that is about it. Roy never fought a guy like Hagler, and vice versa. But, Roy has things that Hagler has had to deal with before, but not so much the case on Jones Jr's part.
 

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The Professor
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8,572 Posts
While you're right about Hagler really turning up the heat, if he doesn't like you, he will come after you. There is a good chance he would hate Roy by fight night, and he would like nothing more than to rip off his head. Thomas Hearns was a great middleweight. He was much better at welterweight, but he was still great at middle. Hagler is above both Hopkins and Toney's level, and Hagler is better than them in almost everyway. They had him in defence and speed, but that is about it. Roy never fought a guy like Hagler, and vice versa. But, Roy has things that Hagler has had to deal with before, but not so much the case on Jones Jr's part.
Yea you're going to have to elaborate on this because I don't see it. Jones fought two top 10 all time middleweights, Hagler fought 0. Hearns two biggest middleweight battles he gets knocked out, I can't call him great as one. Jones is the hardest hitting and fastest Middleweight we've ever seen. What would prepare Hagler for this?
 

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Administrator
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4,993 Posts
LOL

Hagler didn't KO Vito Antuofermo or Willy the worm in the first fights with them. He couldn't KO an aged Bennie Brisco either. These are big fights he had with good technical boxers. None of these guys were ever called Super Man, except maybe Bennie but that was a Philadelphia thing. Roy was Super Man at 160, he doesn't come close to getting KOed.
Those fights were before he went in to his seek and destroy mode. After he was robbed in the first Autuofermo fight is when he started taking everybody out so it wouldn't go to a decision. Before that he could still easily outbox 99% from both stances.

Saying Roy doesn't come close to getting ko'ed, shows how bias your opinion is.
My examples were prime Hagler only ;)

Hagler could not knock out people he had to chase down for the most part. With Roy, he'd be doing nothing but this. Also, Roy was never even knocked down at 160, so get that china chin nonsense out of here. You could make a case no one really landed anything significant on his chin, but this included Bernard Hopkins himself. Then at 168 James Toney couldn't even get to him. Those two guys right there were better middleweights than anyone Hagler fought. Hagler just doesn't land shots with Jones. And if you bother to study how Hagler fights, you will notice he does not turn up the heat unless the other guy does. He will not exert himself unless he feels the other guy is doing something to him. He would consider Roy a clown who didn't want to fight him, he wouldn't even realize he was losing every round almost. Mentally he was just deficient in that area.
Hopkins and Toney are natural counter punchers and it's almost impossible to counter prime Roy.

Having said that; I can't make a decision on who I think would win. Roy never faced the combination of A class pressure, chin, heart, determination, conditioning, power and boxing ability from both stances that prime Hagler would bring. And Hagler never faced the combination of out of this world speed (hand, foot, reflexes), power and conditioning, prime RJ would bring.

Too many possible endings.
 

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The Professor
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8,572 Posts
Those fights were before he went in to his seek and destroy mode. After he was robbed in the first Autuofermo fight is when he started taking everybody out so it wouldn't go to a decision. Before that he could still easily outbox 99% from both stances.

Saying Roy doesn't come close to getting ko'ed, shows how bias your opinion is.


Hopkins and Toney are natural counter punchers and it's almost impossible to counter prime Roy.

Having said that; I can't make a decision on who I think would win. Roy never faced the combination of A class pressure, chin, heart, determination, conditioning, power and boxing ability from both stances that prime Hagler would bring. And Hagler never faced the combination of out of this world speed (hand, foot, reflexes), power and conditioning, prime RJ would bring.

Too many possible endings.
This Hagler seek and destroy transition I'm just not buying. He KOed Willy the worm after losing the first fight. So he had it one fight then fell off again for another ~15? Did he look like a seek and destroy man against Roberto Duran? Seek and destroy Hagler is a myth. He always has been and remained a reactionary fighter.
 

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Premium Member
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6,687 Posts
Hagler would move too slow to get off good shots, just like he was doing for the first half of the leonard fight, Only thing is Jones wouldnt get tired, he would keep it up for 12 rounds
But Hagler was evidently a little slower and not as sharp in that fight. No wonder it was the last of his career. In the fight before he struggled big time with Mugabi.
 
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