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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last year I started boxing for the first time. I was only able to get in almost 4 months before my trainer left to work with a has-been heavyweight pro trying to make a comeback.

The first day he told me to get in a stance like I was going to fight him. With no thought to it really, I stood southpaw, and that was that - I was to be trained as a Southpaw being right-handed and leading with my right.

So, I've wondered ever since if that was the way to go about it. I've been told that southpaw's sometimes have trouble getting fights. Is that true?

If it helps with your answers, I'm 6'6" 240lbs. Also, I'm old as dirt at 31. So, I'm realistic about it, and understand that what I can accomplish is pretty limited, but I'm not wanting to take over the world anyway, so I'm good with that.
 

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JAYBOZ said:
Last year I started boxing for the first time.
In the amateur ranks or pro ranks where you started?

JAYBOZ said:
I was only able to get in almost 4 months before my trainer left to work with a has-been heavyweight pro trying to make a comeback.
This you said gives me the impression that you've turned pro with no amateur background. I'm I right?

JAYBOZ said:
The first day he told me to get in a stance like I was going to fight him. With no thought to it really, I stood southpaw, and that was that - I was to be trained as a Southpaw being right-handed and leading with my right.
So your a south paw? In other words, a natural south paw? Your left-handed, right?


JAYBOZ said:
So, I've wondered ever since if that was the way to go about it. I've been told that southpaw's sometimes have trouble getting fights. Is that true?
If your a natural south paw, its better for you to fight as a south paw, only for reasons its going to be more natural more comfortable for you to do so.

You aren't going to have trouble getting fights because your a south paw, however. Fighters who have no experience fighting south paws tend to have a little trouble fighting them only for reasons of lack of experience.

If your a natural south paw that may could be even an advantage for you in there against a fighter who doesn't have much experience.

JAYBOZ said:
If it helps with your answers, I'm 6'6" 240lbs.
Hey, your a pretty big guy!

Tell me basically about your training and your diet.

In other words, just tell me a little about what your doing to get in shape or to stay in shape.

JAYBOZ said:
Also, I'm old as dirt at 31. So, I'm realistic about it, and understand that what I can accomplish is pretty limited, but I'm not wanting to take over the world anyway, so I'm good with that.
I think its great that you want to be a fighter.

What is it that you are wanting to accomplish as a fighter, and what is the reason or reasons you wanted to become fighter?

I'll share with you a kind of funny story.

Back in the 1960s, I was boxing in the amateur ranks.

I had never fought a south paw, but did finally come to have a fight with a guy who was a south paw.

At the time I was fighting open-class as middleweight, and had done pretty well and had won all my fights.

Any way, I came to have a fight with this guy who was a pretty good fighter and who was a south paw.

I had not even known he was a south paw before the fight, and I had never fought a south paw.

I had yet to ever lose a fight, nor to have ever been knocked down either.

But in the second round this guy, floored me twice.

It was very arkward for me in fighting this guy, only because I didn't have any experience in fighting a south paw. Plus the guy was a pretty good fighter.

After the bell rang ending the second round. In my corner, my trainer says to me. "This kid's a south paw. You've never fought a south paw. This is what I want you to do. When you hear me yell from the corner, "DO IT NOW! I want you to throw that right hand just as hard as you can throw it this kid."

So I says, "Okay,"

In the third round, my trainer climbed up on the apron of the ring, which was really a thing that your not allowed to do. But he did it any way, and I heard him yelling at me "DO IT NOW! DO IT NOW!"

BANG! I dropped this kid. Only, he didn't stay down.

Later I soon hear my trainer in my corner yelling at me again. "DO IT NOW! DO IT NOW!" BANG! This kid goes down again, and the referee started the count. Only this time the referee could have counted to a hundred if he had wanted to because this kid wasn't getting back up, and I had gotten the knockout.

That was the night that I had begun to learn how to fight a south paw.

That kid had really staggered me in the second round, he floored me twice.

On that night I learned that if I'm going to beat a good fighter that was a south paw. I had to throw that right hand. (smiling)

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
JCC. Thanks a ton for the reply and interest. Being new to the sport, I have almost unlimited questions. Let me answer yours so that you can help answer mine . .

I started in the amateur ranks, but like I said, I didn't get to fight before my trainer left. This was a very small gym with just a couple of trainers. I only worked with the one, and I felt like I was really making progress. I'm athletic, strong, a quick learner, and from my basketball days - very coachable. But, again, he left and that was it. Soon after I moved back home to Cincinnati (I had moved to Erie PA for 7 months because of my job). So, no, I hadn't turned pro without an amateur background. I was as green as they come, not even have been in a street fight.

No, I'm not a natural southpaw. I am right handed. That's why I'm really wondering about training as such. But hey, I had to trust my trainer right? But, I'm very used to it. I think it gives me some advatages. The ones you listed, along with the fact that my jab is powerful, and could only get better, and my left straight is great. Really supprised how well my left has come along.

On the other hand, when I work that heavy bag not as a southpaw, my jab (leading with my left) is much quicker, and I'm sure if I got my form down, my right could be a monster. So, I'm kinda torn between the two.

At my size and weight, I guess I'm a fairly big guy. I need to drop some gut fat that I attained as part of my right of passage into my 30's. haha But, otherwise, I'm pretty muscular and have always had a good amount of natural strength. I bench somewhere around 270lbs at max, but understand it's more about technique than raw power. What's your opinion on me trying to pack on some more muscle just to have some extra body armor as I'm sure to meet heavyweights bigger than I am? And I do understand that gaining muscle could hinder certain things such as flexibility, but I think you know what I'm getting at with the question.

As far as my training, I'll tell you first that I've been lifting weights to stay in shape since highschool, so I continue to do that. But, I think this can be beneficial to boxing since I vary my routines so that I lift for power, strength, and endurance. As an example I'll slow down my reps with moderate weight to create strenght. Or, I'll bench with heavy weight, and focus on bursts of power to get the bar up quickly. Also, I'll use low weight, high reps to get the endurance going.

As far as boxing, I really only work a 100lb heavy bag with 14oz gloves. I do a general, moderate workout since I'm trying to get back into it. This means, I start with a jab for about 90sec, and then jab into a straight for about 2 rounds of 90sec, then ad some combos for 2-3 more rounds of about 90sec. At the end I always try to unload and wear myself out. I think it's a decent workout. I also switch back and forth between southpaw so that I have a feel for both since I may end up switching. I'm not sure what else I can do in my basement aside from shadow boxing.

As far as my diet. Well, I'm sure its lacking, but how much, I don't know. I never really focus on diet, though I know it's very important. Reason is, I'm not really training for anything, just trying to get back into some kind of boxing shape so that I can get to a gym and get more serious. Maybe get the diet going then with help of a trainer. I don't eat too poorly. I have a pretty good diet for the average guy, but not enough for a serious athelete. If you have anything you could recommend taking a look at to get something going, I'd definitely be interested.

I think another thing that's lacking is running, or skipping some rope. Haven't done either for a while.

As a fighter, I'd like to accomplish first off being competitive and reaching my potential, and ultimately, going after some golden gloves. If I were to find that I have a lot of talent and really had something going, then I would pursue it further.

Reasons I want to become a fighter are: I greatly respect the sport and I want to know how I would do in the ring both mentally and physically. I like the challenge there for me. I really like the primal feeling of boxing. None of that flashy crap of a lot of martial arts. Get in a ring and get after it. I understand there's a lot of strategy in boxing that I didn't know was there before, which I think is great, but there's still the primal element of being in a ring against one other man, and putting it all out there to become victorious. To me it's just one of those sports, and maybe the ultimate sport where what you put in, you get out, and if you don't come correct, you pay a very heavy price. But if you put it all in, and win, that's got to be one of the best feelings and accomplishments for a guy.

That was a great story about the first fight you had against a soutpaw. Thanks for sharing it. Looks like if I continue to fight southpaw, I'll have to look out for that right!
 

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JAYBOZ said:
Soon after I moved back home to Cincinnati (I had moved to Erie PA for 7 months because of my job).
Since you moved back home are you going to the boxing gym or are you working out at home or are you doing both?

JAYBOZ said:
So, no, I hadn't turned pro without an amateur background. I was as green as they come, not even have been in a street fight.
Good. So how much boxing experience have you had? How long was you there boxing in the amatuer ranks and how well did you do?


Its my thought you must have been a pretty good boxer or you wouldn't be wanting to pursue it as a career.

JAYBOZ said:
No, I'm not a natural southpaw. I am right handed. That's why I'm really wondering about training as such. But hey, I had to trust my trainer right? But, I'm very used to it. I think it gives me some advatages. The ones you listed, along with the fact that my jab is powerful, and could only get better, and my left straight is great. Really supprised how well my left has come along.
I think your right! I've known of some guys who have that ability to switch and to be able to turn south paw in a fight and to be able to switch both and forth in a fight. I'vd never known personally any fighters had that ability to be able to switch back and forth like that. But I had known of some who did.

If you have that ability, that's great and it'll enable you to be more tricky in the ring in fights.

Usually, your more tricky fighters aren't the heavyweights, but more usually in the more lighter weight classes.

Any way, I think you should be yourself and to do what feels more comfort and what comes more natural to you.

There are some things that can come more natural to a fighter and not will not to another fighter. What may could work well for one fighter may not would for another fighter.

I think its good for you to cultivate that ability to fight south paw and to switch back and forth in doing even all the more.

JAYBOZ said:
At my size and weight, I guess I'm a fairly big guy. I need to drop some gut fat that I attained as part of my right of passage into my 30's. haha But, otherwise, I'm pretty muscular and have always had a good amount of natural strength. I bench somewhere around 270lbs at max, but understand it's more about technique than raw power. What's your opinion on me trying to pack on some more muscle just to have some extra body armor as I'm sure to meet heavyweights bigger than I am? And I do understand that gaining muscle could hinder certain things such as flexibility, but I think you know what I'm getting at with the question.
I'm not an advocate of lifting weights for fighters.

Of course, there are some out there today who prescribe lifting weights to boxers, but mostly the trainers who perscibe lifting weights with some exceptions have never been boxers.

It use to be that to be a fighter trainer you had to have been a fighter, and all trainers were ex-fighters.

You can't train a fighter if you have not been a fighter.

But its not like that any more in boxing today, there are a lot of trainers out there today training fighters that have never been boxers.

But there are still some old school guys out there that are still training fighters today, and in my veiw they are your better trainers.

There's a book out today, only at the moment I don't remember the name or title of the book. But its a book on how all the greatest fighters in boxing history trained.

For example, Muhummed Ali didn't lift weights.

None of the great champions of boxing's golden era (1940s-1980s) lifted weights.

Old school fight trainers would tell you that lifting weights would ruin a fighter.

Of course, there might be a few out there today who might, but most old school trainers will not perscribe lifting weights to fighters.

You may disagree with me about it, but you asked for my opinion so I'm giving you my opinion.

If you know how to train as a fighter you don't need to lift weights to become stronger and to have more power as a boxer.

There are different kinds of strengths, you see.

Lifting weights and big muscles isn't what generates punching power.

Leverage, speed and timing generates punching power.

Take for example, a wrestler for reasons of his sport and the ways he trains isn't going to be or at least shouldn't be exactly the same as a boxer. Its two different kinds of strengths, you see.

In the gym, I knew a guy that was a good light weight once who was an open-class fighter that was a slugger, and he had such a big punch. I'd seen him knock down heavyweights sparring in the gym. This kid was one helluva fighter, and won most his fights by getting the knockout. He was one hellavua fighter.

So you see there are different kind of strengthens, and back in those days there weren't any boxers lifting weights.

There are some forms of resistence exercises that you can also do other than lifting weights that you make you stronger and give you a more hard muscular body without lifting weights.

Also I'd like to add that boxing like many others sports isn't all about brute strength, but skill.

Having big muscles isn't going to win a fight if your out there in the ring with some guy who's experienced and knows how to fight.


JAYBOZ said:
Also, I'll use low weight, high reps to get the endurance going.
That isn't the kind of endurance you need to be a fighter, in boxing. You need among others things to start getting out there in the early morings doing your road work running no less than two miles a day in between fights, and you need to be working out in a boxing gym some where and no less an hour and a half a day than five days a week in between fights.

JAYBOZ said:
As far as boxing, I really only work a 100lb heavy bag with 14oz gloves. I do a general, moderate workout since I'm trying to get back into it. This means, I start with a jab for about 90sec, and then jab into a straight for about 2 rounds of 90sec, then ad some combos for 2-3 more rounds of about 90sec. At the end I always try to unload and wear myself out. I think it's a decent workout. I also switch back and forth between southpaw so that I have a feel for both since I may end up switching. I'm not sure what else I can do in my basement aside from shadow boxing.
That's good for you.

JAYBOZ said:
As far as my diet. Well, I'm sure its lacking, but how much, I don't know. I never really focus on diet, though I know it's very important. Reason is, I'm not really training for anything, just trying to get back into some kind of boxing shape so that I can get to a gym and get more serious. Maybe get the diet going then with help of a trainer. I don't eat too poorly. I have a pretty good diet for the average guy, but not enough for a serious athlete. If you have anything you could recommend taking a look at to get something going, I'd definitely be interested.
Sounds okay, but I don't want to make a long post. I may share more of my thoughts later.

JAYBOZ said:
I think another thing that's lacking is running, or skipping some rope. Haven't done either for a while.
Absolutely, but you've been too busy lifting weights, set the weights aside and start doing that.

If you don't have the stamina your going to get a royal butt kick out in the ring with some guy who knows how to fight.

You ought to be out there every day doing your road work.

JAYBOZ said:
As a fighter, I'd like to accomplish first off being competitive and reaching my potential, and ultimately, going after some golden gloves. If I were to find that I have a lot of talent and really had something going, then I would pursue it further.
I think that's what you ought to do.

JAYBOZ said:
Reasons I want to become a fighter are: I greatly respect the sport and I want to know how I would do in the ring both mentally and physically. I like the challenge there for me. I really like the primal feeling of boxing. None of that flashy crap of a lot of martial arts. Get in a ring and get after it.

JAYBOZ said:
I know what you mean about martial arts. I've never had any interest in it either.

That really didn't start to become really popular until the 1970s for reasons of all those kung fu movies and stuff.

Martial arts just had never impressed me all that much.

I think the guys to be more feared really are guys that are tough two-fisted street fighters.

Ever seen a bar fight? How long do they usually last one minute. If a guy has any boxing experience at all. I don't care if he's in shape or not, he's usually going to be the one who's going to win that kind of fight.

Martial Arts is okay, but with few exceptions it has been my experience they can't take a punch.

I've always encouraged kids to take up boxing for reasons it will toughen you in body and in mind like no other sport, and its a great fitness and confidence builder.

When you get out there and get yourself in shape you come to be of a different frame of mind. You start to thinking you can do any thing.

No other sport will instill, pride, determination and guts in somebody like boxing will.


JAYBOZ said:
I understand there's a lot of strategy in boxing that I didn't know was there before, which I think is great, but there's still the primal element of being in a ring against one other man, and putting it all out there to become victorious.

To me it's just one of those sports, and maybe the ultimate sport where what you put in, you get out, and if you don't come correct, you pay a very heavy price. But if you put it all in, and win, that's got to be one of the best feelings and accomplishments for a guy.
I agree.

Boxing isn't all about power and speed. But power and speed are good, and they are tools. But you got to have strategy, you got to be focused, and its all about skill.

JAYBOZ said:
That was a great story about the first fight you had against a soutpaw. Thanks for sharing it. Looks like if I continue to fight southpaw, I'll have to look out for that right!
It was an inner city tourament some things you just always remember.

I would have lost that fight if I had not have thrown that right hand like I did in the third round.

But I sure did come to have a lot of respect for south paws after that fight I can sure tell you that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
JCC, I apologize, I must have been unclear in my posts. I have no fighting experience yet. Those 4 months I spent with the trainer last year were the first ever, where I started from the beginning learning how to punch properly, getting in shape, working the bags, etc. I have never been in the ring for a fight. Sorry about the confusion.

Since I've moved back to Cincy, I have not belonged to a boxing gym. Someone highly recomended one downtown that I'm interested in. As soon as I can afford it, I want to head down there and get back into it. As for now, just working out in my basement.

This of course may change some of your previous answers. And the age thing probably comes into play even more. But again, I understand that what I can do at 31 is limited, but my interest is to be competitive and learn some things about fighting, and myself in the ring. I think what I'm looking at is going after golden gloves at some level, and my pinnacle would probably be fighting in the Tournament of Champions. So, I'm not looking to make a career out of it unless I have a ton of talent, but still my age would be an issue I'd assume.

In the meantime though, I would like to keep learning/training with both a right handed stance and southpaw. I'd love to be able to switch up in a fight, and think I'm on my way to being able to do so. To me, that's an exciting possibility. A nice weapon in the ring.

I completely understand your stance on weight lifting and know that a good puncher has great technique, not big muscles. I think part of the problem though is that people like me with little experience see these enormous, ripped, big muscled heavyweights on tv and wonder how in the world they'd stand up against someone like that (in the amateur ranks) without having some body armor themselves.

I also agree with you in regards to trainers that have been fighters. Personally, I wouldn't want to be trained by someone who hadn't been there. How could they advise you during the fight when they don't know where you are mentally and physically.

As far as the book you were trying to remember, I'd love to check it out. I've heard some of how Ali used to train, running in boots and things like that. I'm aware he was in amazing condition and would be interested to hear more.

I agree with you on the roadwork also, or course. Even though I'm not in a gym yet, it's never too early to get some lungs, and legs beneath you. I'm getting started on that this upcomming week.

When talking about martial arts, you said that you've found that sometimes they have trouble taking a punch. In boxing, how do you learn to take a punch? Is it a matter of getting used to it over time, breathing tecniques? Just curious.
 

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JAYBOZ said:
JCC, I apologize, I must have been unclear in my posts. I have no fighting experience yet.

Those 4 months I spent with the trainer last year were the first ever, where I started from the beginning learning how to punch properly, getting in shape, working the bags, etc. I have never been in the ring for a fight. Sorry about the confusion.
Thanks for letting me know all that. Now I'm beginning to get the whole picture.

Tell me about this trainer you had for four months. The only thing I'm wanting to know is if he's an ex-fighter? I think after you having read my last posts now you'll know why I ask this question. I'd also like to know basically what kind of daily workout and exercise routine this trainer had given you or put you on if any at all? I'd also like to know basically what he had over all taught you?

You don't have to make a long post in giving your answers to these questions. You can be brief I'm just wanting to know some know generally about what this guy had over all taught you is all. Your answers to these questions will tell me how good a trainer he was and will more let me know how I should advise you.

Boxing today in a certian sense is not the sport it was back when I was there in the 1960s and early 1970s back when I was boxing in the amatuer ranks.

There are a lot of guys out there today calling them selves experts or trainers for boxers that have never been there and have little or no boxing experience at all.

It wasn't like that when I was there. I think you know what I'm saying.

I make no claims to be any expert, but I did take up boxing in the gym at a very young age (at age 9), and spent the next 12 years there boxing in the amatuer ranks and was an open-class fighter and I won my share of trophies so I think I know at least a little as for how to train as boxer and in knowing how to fight. I don't say I know every thing. But I do know how to train and how to fight.

I've always been fanatical about conditioning since I was a kid, and I still am to this day. Even at my age now not boxing any more. But I still train and stay in shape to this day very near the same way as back when I was a fighter.

I grew up in boxing, my father was a boxer who fought pro, and being so close to the sport when I was a kid is what I had taken up boxing at such a young age and remained in boxing and was so close to the sport for many years.

I was more close to the sport back in those days. But then boxing began to change in so many ways that I began to lose interest in it. But I still like to catch some of the big fights today to watch the big fights.

Only, my interest in boxing is no where near as much as it had once been before.

I still have interest in the sport in the ways it use to be, that's why mostly when I do post in this forum its in the boxing history discussions.

JAYBOZ said:
Since I've moved back to Cincy, I have not belonged to a boxing gym.

Someone highly recomended one downtown that I'm interested in.
Sounds good, you need to go check it. Especially, if you have more interest in just getting in shape and your wanting to compete in some amatuer boxing tourament.

The the discipline of physical training comes more easier when you have more of purpose for it and a goal.

JAYBOZ said:
As soon as I can afford it, I want to head down there and get back into it. As for now, just working out in my basement.
Sounds good, and keep working out in your basement doing the things you know to do and when you can finally get around to going to the gym do it.

But the one thing that's so very important especially if you remain serious about taking up boxing more than being just the mere exercise of it, but to compete in competition and to enter into some amatuer boxing touraments, is that you MUST START THE HABIT NOW of getting out there and running and doing your roadwork every day. Notice I said EVERY DAY. You'll do well to do EVERY DAY.

If fact, I still do it to this day, though I'm not boxing any more.

I don't train quite as strenously as I did when I was younger. But I still to this day will at least get out there and run a couple of miles every day just to keep in shape.

I also exercise much as I had before in being that I'll spend near an hour every day working out in the gym at my home doing hard calisthenics, or what you may could call intense calisthenics, stretching, and also some forms of resistence exercises that's not lifting weights in which I'll use a gym towel working the muscles of my upper body against one another.

The over all kind of exercises I do are more natural without use of resistence machines or lifting of weights.

At age 55, at 5' 10", at 168 lbs now. That's the weight I was back when in my early twenties in the early 1970s when I was boxing amatuer as a Light-heavyweight. I'm still in pretty good shape for an older man.

One of the things that really disappoints me in boxing today, as for the heavyweight division is that they don't have boxer's bodies any more, they're too fat and carrying too much weight.

This has an affect on their performance in the ring in fights. Its a good thing that in the professional ranks the title fights aren't 15 rounds any more, for I doubt there are many heavyweights today that could do 15 rounds even with five air tanks on their backs. They aren't in good enough shape.

If your a professional athlete that's a boxer, you will perform better in the ring if you physique is all muscle and bone. The body of a very well-conditioned boxer is going to look like a dried prune not a grape. The body of a very well-conditioned boxer is going to be slender and all muscle and bone.

JAYBOZ said:
This of course may change some of your previous answers. And the age thing probably comes into play even more. But again, I understand that what I can do at 31 is limited, but my interest is to be competitive and learn some things about fighting, and myself in the ring. I think what I'm looking at is going after golden gloves at some level, and my pinnacle would probably be fighting in the Tournament of Champions. So, I'm not looking to make a career out of it unless I have a ton of talent, but still my age would be an issue I'd assume.
My impression is your interest in boxing at this point any point is to get in shape, and to compete in some the amatuer ranks as this at point any way.

I think that's great! Do it!

Boxing will toughen you up in body and in mind, and it's also teach you how to fight.

Being in shape causes you to be of a different frame of mind and to be of a better frame of mind. When your in shape you feel better about yourself.

Also learning how to fight, and knowing how to fight is a great confidence builder and boxing can help you in that way too.

JAYBOZ said:
In the meantime though, I would like to keep learning/training with both a right handed stance and southpaw. I'd love to be able to switch up in a fight, and think I'm on my way to being able to do so. To me, that's an exciting possibility. A nice weapon in the ring.
I agree.


JAYBOZ said:
In boxing, how do you learn to take a punch? Is it a matter of getting used to it over time, breathing tecniques? Just curious.
Good question, JAY.

In boxing, with some exceptions usually a guy who has a thin neck can't take a punch. But its a kind of fair trade in a way, because usually a guy who has a thick neck cuts easier in the ring in a fights. I talking about cut eyes and stuff like that.

But to put this in another context wrestling for example, isn't a sport in which you take punches like in boxing. The same could be said as for most who practice martial arts too. They are aren't conditioned to taking punches like boxers are. Boxers get use to taking punches. An experienced boxer isn't afraid of taking punches for reasons he's physically and mentally conditioned to it.

Just to give an example that might help you to even better to understand what I'm saying in putting this in the context that I am now as for some guys not being able to take a punch.

A few years ago at the time I was living an apartment. It was in the summer and I had spent the weekend the enjoying and relaxing at the swimming pool at the apartments where I lived at the time.

Well, I have gotten into an agrument with some guy at the pool that weekend over something and it lead to a fight.

The guy jumped me, and I was only defending myself is all. I had no interest in getting into a fight with the guy. But he attacked me and give me no way out.

Any way, he was a pretty big guy. He was over six foot tall, maybe around 6' 2", and weighted around 220-230, and I'd say in he was in his late twenties.

He charged me and throwing a right taking a wild swing at me which I easily make him miss, by rolling under his punch and then I belted this guy with a left hook that knocked him to the ground. He started saying "YOU BROKE MY JAW, YOU BROKE MY JAW."

I didn't break the guy's jaw, the punch hurt him, but it didn't break his guy's jaw. Maybe fractured his jaw, but it didn't break his jaw. What he was really saying was he didn't want to fight no more, you see.

That left hook had hurt him, and make a coward out of him. It took his heart and courage from him. That's what happened, the guy couldn't take a punch.

But for his sake, I'm glad he did quit, for if the fight would have continued his injury could have become by far more serious than only a fractured jaw, if in fact his jaw was really fractured.

What I think that happen was despite the fact that he was a pretty big strong guy, he couldn't take a punch, especially not a hard punch, and it make him worry, he lost his courage and guts.

Please don't get the wrong idea. I like fighting, but fighting that's done in the ring, not street fights.

Obviously this guy was bigger than me, he looked like he may could have played football or was very athletic. But the different between was that I knew how to fight.

Again, as I had mentioned in an earlier post and I'd just would like to place emphasis on this fact. Boxing isn't all about power and brute strength. But of course, you got to be in shape. It's more about skill and knowing how to fight.

Experience has taught me that being able to take a punch is as much physical as being mentally conditioned to being able to take a punch, and can be even more be more mental than physical as for a person's ability to take a punch.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My trainer was a fighter. I believe most was in the amateur ranks, but he did have a good background.

I guess I'll start by outlining the exercise/warmup routine in the gym that we did. He was no slouch in this area. He kicked my butt, but then I walked through the door in poor cardiovascular shape. I respected the fact though that he laid into me and showed no mercy. I like that. I respond to more of a militant approach than a soft handed kind of thing. If you see me with a scowel on my face and an ultra focused stare that wouldn't notice a naked girl walking by, you know I'm having fun! I think this comes from my dad being a Marine, and ruling the home with the same iron first his DI trained him with. That mentality never left him, and seeped into me.

Anyway, we'd start with basic stretching and calisthenics. Don't think you need too much detail here, but it was thorough.

We'd move to some aerobic activity. I'd slide around the ring with my back to the ropes. For example, move my right foot out to my right and bring my left foot in to folow, being sure never to cross them. So, I'd shuffle around like that for minutes at a time, changing direction often, left then right. I'd also run backwards around the ring. Once I got in decent shape, he'd add ankle weights. At first that stuff would wear me the hell out and I couldn't fathom doing the real work afterwards, but I adapted soon enough.

This would be followed by jabs from one corner and back backwards, shooting jabs while holding 5lb weights to promote speed.

I think that's about it for warm-up etc.

As far as punches, he taught me how to jab by pushing off my rear foot, snapping, and pulling back, ALWAYS stressing keeping my hands up and elbows in. Also taught the cross, and how to rotate my hips and snap them back when i pull my punch back into my guard. I'm not very confident in my technique for hooks. I understand the concept and weight distr, but need to get a little better feel. Same for uppercuts. Probably the least practiced, so I have the least amount of confidence. I don't want to be a purely outside fighter, so I'd really like to get these punches down. I'd like to be a hybrid outside-in boxer.

Aside from all that, I'd work the heavy bag until I thought I was going to puke. Was getting momentum on the speedbag, and was a natural on the double end bag - well basic workouts anyway. I'vegot good hand eye cordination and great reflexes. So that bag was fun for me.

This lead to punching the mits, and then shadow boxing. Finally, I'd skip rope, and then situps with him dropping a 10lb medicine ball I'd catch right as I went back to the mat with my back.

It was a great workout.

What I missed out on, besides the obvious of sparring, and fighting, was learing defensive moves. Didn't have a chance for that either before he left. So now you have a really good idea of how green I still am. I really just got a taste.

In my opinion he was a good trainer, especially for a beginner as he focused on cardio, form, and guard.

You obviously have a great background in boxing, and I'm definitely open to any suggestions or direction, and woud appreciate it a lot.

That was a great point about heavyweights and many boxers in general not having a boxers body. Also, great story about the guy at the pool. That is one of the first things I learned and continue to be reminded of, is that power and ability come from technique and form. As a fairly big and strong guy, I thought I had a pretty nice punch, at least compared to my friends, but learned I didn't have a damn thing on the first day I walked into the gym. It was kinda scary and exciting all at once if you know what I mean.
 

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JAYBOZ said:
My trainer was a fighter. I believe most was in the amateur ranks, but he did have a good background.
That's okay!

JAYBOZ said:
I guess I'll start by outlining the exercise/warmup routine in the gym that we did.

He was no slouch in this area.

He kicked my butt, but then I walked through the door in poor cardiovascular shape.

I respected the fact though that he laid into me and showed no mercy.

I like that.

I respond to more of a militant approach than a soft handed kind of thing.

If you see me with a scowel on my face and an ultra focused stare that wouldn't notice a naked girl walking by, you know I'm having fun!

I think this comes from my dad being a Marine, and ruling the home with the same iron fist his DI trained him with.
I corrected your typo ... you meant to say FIST I think. I make typos too. By the way, I edited my last post to make for it to be a more easy read.

JAYBOZ said:
That mentality never left him, and seeped into me.
Boxing will toughen you in body and in mind, its a great fitness and confidence builder.

As you know by now, I'm old school, and I believe the over all training I received in the 1960s in getting my start in boxing was by far better than the ways many are being trained today.

Boxing was tougher and better sport then and was a more popular sport then than it is today, and there was by far more over all talent in boxing in those days.

But even before my time the 1940s and 1950s is when I believe that boxing as a sport had the most and best over all talent in the weight divisions.

There were only eight weight divisions in those days and in my time also there were eight weight divisions.

But if you really want to know the guys I most admire who are the real gladiators?

Its those guys who were tough ... two fisted street fighters back in the time before boxers wore gloves in fights.

Now they were the true gladiators!

They were tough in body, and tough in mind. They had strategy. They used strategy and they knew how to fight.

They'd fight 50 to 100 rounds, and go back to work in the foundry they next day.

If you study boxing history, you'll see how boxing as a sport has progressively become softer and more tame.

They say the training is better today.

How I know how good the training is by what it produces?

Only reason I say this is that you might be careful about who you listen to.

Just recently, and in this forum one poster spoke of how he had recently spent some time with one of today's top fight trainers, who is one of the old timers who is still out there training fighters today, and he said. "Any body with a ten dollar bill can be a fight trainer today."

It isn't like it use to be.

There are a lot of trainers out there today now training boxers who never boxed.

A lot of those guys out there who are trainers today, act like they know every thing. But in reality they are ignorant. They haven't served their time.

The reason I say this to you is because how you start in very important.

Someone has said that in boxing you get old too fast and smart too late.


JAYBOZ said:
Anyway, we'd start with basic stretching and calisthenics. Don't think you need too much detail here, but it was thorough.

We'd move to some aerobic activity. I'd slide around the ring with my back to the ropes. For example, move my right foot out to my right and bring my left foot in to follow, being sure never to cross them. So, I'd shuffle around like that for minutes at a time, changing direction often, left then right. I'd also run backwards around the ring.

Once I got in decent shape, he'd add ankle weights. At first that stuff would wear the hell out and I couldn't fathom doing the real work afterwards, but I adapted soon enough.
Back in the 1960s in training for a title fight with Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, walked 8 miles a day wearing 9 pound shoes.

I just want to say this road work (running) is very important and I'm amazed today that there are some so-called fight trainers today who say it isn't.

Also walking is good, walking is a slow rhythmatic movement exercise and can build stamina if the walks are long enough and done regularly.

I'm not an advocate of lifting weights and most especially not for boxers, but shadow boxing with very light hand weights is good to do and things such as that.

Rocky Marciano use to often run up and down hills with a sand bag on his back or shoulders back in the 1950s and he also regularly would go for very long walks. He believed it builds stamina.

There are many things the so-called boxing experts today will disagree about concerning Rocky Marciano, but they all will agree that he was the most well-conditioned heavyweight fighter of all-time.

In the 1950s there were many people who believed that Rocky Marciano was the most well-conditioned professional athlete in the world.

In doing his road work in the mornings Marciano was known at times to run 9 to 10 miles a day, but usually less than that 6 to 7 miles a day.


JAYBOZ said:
This would be followed by jabs from one corner and back backwards, shooting jabs while holding 5lb weights to promote speed.

I think that's about it for warm-up etc.

As far as punches, he taught me how to jab by pushing off my rear foot, snapping, and pulling back, ALWAYS stressing keeping my hands up and elbows in.
Working out punching the speed bag will help you to get use to holding your hands up and that's very important.

Because when your hands goes down your open for punches to the head, you need to get use to holding you hands up and punching the speed bag will get you use to holding your hands up.

You want to get very use to holding your hands up.

Also to be careful you don't have your legs spread too far apart or you'll go off balance, and you'll be more easily knocked down is a fight.

JAYBOZ said:
Also taught the cross, and how to rotate my hips and snap them back when I pull my punch back into my guard.

I'm not very confident in my technique for hooks.
It just takes lot's practice. It takes time to develop good hooks, as in most every thing we get better with practice.

Do lot's and lot's of shadow boxing regularly.

I would suggest you use very light hands weights shadow boxing.

No more that 1 or 2 pound hand weights.

This will help to develop hand speed better than those heavier weights you were using.

You try it for a while and you will see.

How to develop speed is just simply through practicing throwing punches and lot's of shadow boxing.

JAYBOZ said:
I understand the concept and weight distr, but need to get a little better feel. Same for uppercuts.

Probably the least practiced, so I have the least amount of confidence.
Do lot's and lot's of shadow boxing. I say it again because I want to place emphasis on it. Do lot's and lot's of shadow boxing.


JAYBOZ said:
I don't want to be a purely outside fighter, so I'd really like to get these punches down.

I'd like to be a hybrid outside-in boxer.

Aside from all that, I'd work the heavy bag until I thought I was going to puke.

Was getting momentum on the speedbag, and was a natural on the double end bag - well basic workouts anyway.

I've got good hand eye cordination and great reflexes. So that bag was fun for me.

This leads to punching the mits, and then shadow boxing.

Finally, I'd skip rope, and then situps with him dropping a 10 lb medicine ball I'd catch right as I went back to the mat with my back.

It was a great workout.

What I missed out on, besides the obvious of sparring, and fighting, was learning defensive moves.
Where your at now in just getting started there are going to be some things your ready to learn and others things it will be years, two or three years before you ready to learn.

Learning to fight, how to box and developing skill is progressive.

JAYBOZ said:
Didn't have a chance for that either before he left.
Well, in the ring sparring in where you learn and the place you develop you skills.

I take it that you were going to the gym daily and he had you exercising and punching the bags and things which is all very good. But he should have had you in the ring sparring every day too.

Coming to the end of your workout in the gym that should have been the last thing he had you do before you hit the showers is getting out there in the ring and to spar a few rounds unless of course there were no sparring partners available.

I'm not being critical of the trainer you had. I'm just listening to you and being honest in expressing my thoughts.

I'm not saying he's not a good trainer. He may be. I believe he was. Its just that I would have done some things different.

JAYBOZ said:
So now you have a really good idea of how green I still am. I really just got a taste.

In my opinion he was a good trainer, especially for a beginner as he focused on cardio, form, and guard.

You obviously have a great background in boxing, and I'm definitely open to any suggestions or direction, and woud appreciate it a lot.

That was a great point about heavyweights and many boxers in general not having a boxers body.

Also, great story about the guy at the pool. That is one of the first things I learned and continue to be reminded of, is that power and ability come from technique and form.

As a fairly big and strong guy, I thought I had a pretty nice punch, at least compared to my friends, but learned I didn't have a damn thing on the first day I walked into the gym. It was kinda scary and exciting all at once if you know what I mean.
When you finally do enter into some amatuer boxing touraments and start training for it and getting out in the ring sparring and you'll come to see just how long those rounds are and how much stamina it takes. Then your going to remember what I told you about the importance of getting out there very early in mornings and doing your road work I can sure tell that I do know.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
JCC - sorry it took a while here with the reply. been deeling with some crazy family stuff.

yeah i was actually reading up on the history of boxing and read about those bareknuckle fighters back in the day. those guys were something else. you're right about that. man, that had to be something to see. probably a lot of blood and teeth flying around, and then back to work the next day. yeah, they were the true gladiators, but i have to say, i'm glad it evolved into a safer sport so that these guys could last longer and took on less serious injuries.

maybe you'll be happy to know that i started road work. well, i started on my roommates treadmill, but i incline it to get a better simulation of being outside. just want to get some momentum on it before i get out on the streets. listening to you talk about the 9 pound shoes, i wanted to add some weight the other day so i put 2 chains over the back of my neck that are 3 feet long and weigh about 12 pounds each and just walked, but fast and with the treadmill on full incline. i liked how it felt, except i have to be careful with my lower back. so, i think i'll just use one length of chain the next time. i figure this is a nice addition to simply running on the thing.
 

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JAYBOZ said:
JCC - sorry it took a while here with the reply. been dealing with some crazy family stuff.
We all do from time to time.

JAYBOZ said:
Yeah, I was actually reading up on the history of boxing and read about those bareknuckle fighters back in their day.

Those guys were something else.

You're right about that. Man, that had to be something to see.

Probably a lot of blood and teeth flying around, and then back to work the next day.
Boxing without gloves, there was much to learn too.

You had to punch the soft places of your opponents body, for example, never the top of your opponents head, that could injure or break your hand.

And that's why boxing gloves were originally invented.

It was to help protect your hands from injury.

By the way, the top of the head of a man's skull is the hardest part of the body.

But if a guy is a really hard puncher ... especially wearing the 8 ounce gloves as it was when I was there in the amatuer ranks before the rules changed and they starting wearing bigger gloves some guys did injure their hands at times if they were really hard punchers. But more that happened in the professional ranks in part for reasons the rounds were longer and they fought more rounds.

In fact, there was a time in the professional ranks for some title fights they use to wear an even smaller glove, 6 ounce gloves.


JAYBOZ said:
Yeah, they were the true gladiators, but I have to say, I'm glad it evolved into a safer sport so that these guys could last longer and took on less serious injuries.
Yeah, they were gladiators alright! They were tough in body, and tough in mind. They had strategy. They used strategy. They knew how to fight!


JAYBOZ said:
Maybe you'll be happy to know that I started road work.
That's good for you.

On the other hand, there are trainers for boxers today that will tell you you don't need that. But those who will say that usually are trainers who have never boxed, or guy's who have and weren't successful boxers.

It didn't use to be like that, you use to have to been a fighter to train fighters, but its not like that any more today.

Any body can be a trainer today.


JAYBOZ said:
Well, I started on my roommates treadmill, but I incline it to get a better simulation of being outside. Just want to get some momentum on it before I get out on the streets.
There are a lot of reasons its better to run out doors, and taking in the fresh air only one reason it is.

You need to do it in the early mornings when the air is more pure.

JAYBOZ said:
Listening to you talk about the 9 pound shoes, I wanted to add some weight the other day so I put 2 chains over the back of my neck that are 3 feet long and weigh about 12 pounds each and just walked, but fast and with the treadmill on full incline.
Go to an army-navy store, or some store like that where you live or over the NET ... and get you a pair of army boots.

Muhummed Ali, use to do his road work at times wearing army boots.

That's all the weight you need.

Also there are weighted wraps that can be used to put on your ankles also if you chose to take it that much further.

But the army boots are heavy enough, and is all you need.

There use to be a lot of professional athletes including boxers that would do their road work wearing army boots at times.


JAYBOZ said:
I liked how it felt, except I have to be careful with my lower back.

So, I think I'll just use one length of chain the next time.

I figure this is a nice addition to simply running on the thing.
Jay, there are different kinds of strengths.

As you know already, I'm not an advocate of lifting weights for boxers.

If your not already doing it, you need to be doing some hard or intense calthenics, and stretching exercises that will serve to more strengthen your whole body inside and out, including internal organs, and ligaments and tendons.

If you really know how to train in this way. Its a by far better way to train for a boxer ... you do not need to lift weighs for power and stamina.

Chimpanzees, as an example, are eight times stronger than a man, yet do not lift weights. How do chimpanzees exercise?

If you do the right exercises in this way, its possible to even recover and reverse backs injuries.

I, personally, workout this way daily for an hour, and I don't even break a sweat and I'm an old guy (55 years), its because I keep myself in shape. I'm not boxing any more, but I still keep in shape. My physical training is much the same as when I was boxing. Only the purpose of my physical training now is different than when I was boxing.

As I mentioned in earlier posts ... in my veiw boxing is the greatest of all fitness and confidence builders.

When your in shape you come to be of a different frame of mind, you start thinking tough, you feel better about yourself.

Also knowing how to fight is a great confidence builder.

But you want also to be careful not to over train, or you'll leave your punch in the gym.

JC
 
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