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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, maybe the title of this thread is a little much, but lately I've noticed people saying weird things all over the forum. Saying things like:
"We all saw how Hopkins whooped Calzaghe"
or
"Well, Marquez beat Pacquiao so Marquez should..."

Comments like this have got to end. Whether or not I scored either of those they way the judges did doesn't matter. Look, if at every turn we belittle our judges (and system of judging) we do nothing but diminish the integrity of boxing.
I'm not saying disagreements are not OK, of course its OK to ask a judge why he/she scored it, and if you do not agree with their decisions, but to claim fighters "won" or "lost" when there record says otherwise does nothing undermine what boxing is all about.

Boxing is subjective, we should all understand that. We should also understand that when you say "Marquez clearly beat Pacman" that the statement can be true to you, but totally false to somebody else. We have panel of 3 judges at each fight to set a unit of measure, to give an answer to a subjective problem. If we constantly undermine this system, then there is no point to any of it, no basis for rankings, no reason to have belts. If nobody is sure about which fighters won which fights, because everybody is saying something different, then nobody knows which fighter is good or bad.

Like i said, its ok to dissagree, and say things like "well i scored it this way..." but when people make the claim that somebody else woon or lost, it starts to cause problems.

i'm just ranting..what do you guys think about this situation?
 

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Team Mayweather
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24,365 Posts
I read a few lines, I'll tell you this. No one is going to "ruin" boxing. An entire internet forum is not going to "ruin" boxing. Boxing is here to stay for good.

Your argument is based roughly on how people state what they feel. I can say, "Marquez beat Pacqiauo" but you have to realize that the obvious unstated premise so to speak is, in my opinion......(Marquez beat Pacquiao). Its fact that Pacquiao beat Marquez. Marquez never beat Pac. So you have to take the facts into account and just realize that no matter what someone says, its strictly opinion, however its worded.

Also, Pac beat Marquez both times (imo) and Calzaghe deserved the nod over Hopkins in that fight (imo).
 

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Calvarez
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7,453 Posts
I read a few lines, I'll tell you this. No one is going to "ruin" boxing. An entire internet forum is not going to "ruin" boxing. Boxing is here to stay for good.

Your argument is based roughly on how people state what they feel. I can say, "Marquez beat Pacqiauo" but you have to realize that the obvious unstated premise so to speak is, in my opinion......(Marquez beat Pacquiao). Its fact that Pacquiao beat Marquez. Marquez never beat Pac. So you have to take the facts into account and just realize that no matter what someone says, its strictly opinion, however its worded.

Also, Pac beat Marquez both times (imo) and Calzaghe deserved the nod over Hopkins in that fight (imo).
Good points, but I think Marquez beat Pacquiao second time (IMO) :thumbsup::).
 
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While there is no doubt that people reverse decisions like they never happened on this forum constantly, there is certainly room for interpretation when it comes to scoring. An 'IMO' should be added to a couple forum members' vocabularies though, no doubt.
 

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Iron Lungs
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3,315 Posts
See your point on the post but, all we do is post our thoughts, wether positive or negative, and wether you like the boxer or not people will say what they want to say. That doesnt change the facts on who won and how they won.
 

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I can appreciate what you are saying man but it's just the nature of the beast. There will always be close and disputed decisions, but there always has been. No reason it should start to ruin boxing now.
 

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TRIPLE OG HATER FOR LIFE
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16,769 Posts
Ok, maybe the title of this thread is a little much, but lately I've noticed people saying weird things all over the forum. Saying things like:
"We all saw how Hopkins whooped Calzaghe"
or
"Well, Marquez beat Pacquiao so Marquez should..."

Comments like this have got to end. Whether or not I scored either of those they way the judges did doesn't matter. Look, if at every turn we belittle our judges (and system of judging) we do nothing but diminish the integrity of boxing.
I'm not saying disagreements are not OK, of course its OK to ask a judge why he/she scored it, and if you do not agree with their decisions, but to claim fighters "won" or "lost" when there record says otherwise does nothing undermine what boxing is all about.

Boxing is subjective, we should all understand that. We should also understand that when you say "Marquez clearly beat Pacman" that the statement can be true to you, but totally false to somebody else. We have panel of 3 judges at each fight to set a unit of measure, to give an answer to a subjective problem. If we constantly undermine this system, then there is no point to any of it, no basis for rankings, no reason to have belts. If nobody is sure about which fighters won which fights, because everybody is saying something different, then nobody knows which fighter is good or bad.

Like i said, its ok to dissagree, and say things like "well i scored it this way..." but when people make the claim that somebody else woon or lost, it starts to cause problems.

i'm just ranting..what do you guys think about this situation?
:laugh::blah: sounds like your name ,your having a meltdown, people are allways gonna talk out of their ass, don't you know that by now, so if you agree with it fine you coment on it or what ever if you don't then just pass it by, just cause a feww have a particular view of a fight it does'nt mean they're ruining boxing no sirr...

I can appreciate what you are saying man but it's just the nature of the beast. There will always be close and disputed decisions, but there always has been. No reason it should start to ruin boxing now.
Right on brother you hit the spot, and we're the beast so it goes
 

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tellin' it like it is
Joined
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18,612 Posts
Ok, maybe the title of this thread is a little much, but lately I've noticed people saying weird things all over the forum. Saying things like:
"We all saw how Hopkins whooped Calzaghe"
or
"Well, Marquez beat Pacquiao so Marquez should..."

Comments like this have got to end. Whether or not I scored either of those they way the judges did doesn't matter. Look, if at every turn we belittle our judges (and system of judging) we do nothing but diminish the integrity of boxing.
I'm not saying disagreements are not OK, of course its OK to ask a judge why he/she scored it, and if you do not agree with their decisions, but to claim fighters "won" or "lost" when there record says otherwise does nothing undermine what boxing is all about.

Boxing is subjective, we should all understand that. We should also understand that when you say "Marquez clearly beat Pacman" that the statement can be true to you, but totally false to somebody else. We have panel of 3 judges at each fight to set a unit of measure, to give an answer to a subjective problem. If we constantly undermine this system, then there is no point to any of it, no basis for rankings, no reason to have belts. If nobody is sure about which fighters won which fights, because everybody is saying something different, then nobody knows which fighter is good or bad.

Like i said, its ok to dissagree, and say things like "well i scored it this way..." but when people make the claim that somebody else woon or lost, it starts to cause problems.

i'm just ranting..what do you guys think about this situation?
gotta disagree with you on this. i think boxing needs more critism....especially about in regards to a number of bad judges. when people critize something in large numbers it sometimes leads to some type of reform that'll make whatever they're collectively critizing better.

I read a few lines, I'll tell you this. No one is going to "ruin" boxing. An entire internet forum is not going to "ruin" boxing. Boxing is here to stay for good.

Your argument is based roughly on how people state what they feel. I can say, "Marquez beat Pacqiauo" but you have to realize that the obvious unstated premise so to speak is, in my opinion......(Marquez beat Pacquiao). Its fact that Pacquiao beat Marquez. Marquez never beat Pac. So you have to take the facts into account and just realize that no matter what someone says, its strictly opinion, however its worded.

Also, Pac beat Marquez both times (imo) and Calzaghe deserved the nod over Hopkins in that fight (imo).
good post, man
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter #9
While there is no doubt that people reverse decisions like they never happened on this forum constantly, there is certainly room for interpretation when it comes to scoring. An 'IMO' should be added to a couple forum members' vocabularies though, no doubt.
this is more of what i meant.

Im fine with people disagreeing, just so often on this forum people say in a factual way "Marquez beat Pacman"

im all fine with people debating who won, why, and how. but just, at the end of the day we have to acknowledge what the judges scored, as the actual outcome.

And i was kidding about it "ruining" boxing. just its a little annoying when people change history so often on these forums.

-Ian
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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22,174 Posts
Ok, maybe the title of this thread is a little much, but lately I've noticed people saying weird things all over the forum. Saying things like:
"We all saw how Hopkins whooped Calzaghe"
or
"Well, Marquez beat Pacquiao so Marquez should..."

Comments like this have got to end. Whether or not I scored either of those they way the judges did doesn't matter. Look, if at every turn we belittle our judges (and system of judging) we do nothing but diminish the integrity of boxing.
I'm not saying disagreements are not OK, of course its OK to ask a judge why he/she scored it, and if you do not agree with their decisions, but to claim fighters "won" or "lost" when there record says otherwise does nothing undermine what boxing is all about.

Boxing is subjective, we should all understand that. We should also understand that when you say "Marquez clearly beat Pacman" that the statement can be true to you, but totally false to somebody else. We have panel of 3 judges at each fight to set a unit of measure, to give an answer to a subjective problem. If we constantly undermine this system, then there is no point to any of it, no basis for rankings, no reason to have belts. If nobody is sure about which fighters won which fights, because everybody is saying something different, then nobody knows which fighter is good or bad.

Like i said, its ok to dissagree, and say things like "well i scored it this way..." but when people make the claim that somebody else woon or lost, it starts to cause problems.

i'm just ranting..what do you guys think about this situation?
You should start a boxing blog. I like the way you think and appreciate your writing style. You're great at conveying your thoughts in a manner where they translate perfectly into text.

That said, what about fights like Casamayor-Santa Cruz? Fights where the system fails the sport and participants should always be brought up and scrutinized IMO.
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter #11
You should start a boxing blog. I like the way you think and appreciate your writing style. You're great at conveying your thoughts in a manner where they translate perfectly into text.

That said, what about fights like Casamayor-Santa Cruz? Fights where the system fails the sport and participants should always be brought up and scrutinized IMO.
yeah, thats a good point. i didnt really think about that.

Because i agree that fights like that (ridiculously bad judging) deserve to be scrutinized, and to a point ignored. What i was more agree about were close fights, fights that really could have gone either way, or slightly for one fighter.

i guess thats a double standard.

If only you could score boxing in such a finite way like Football or something. Though Olimpic boxing scoring is AWFUL.

Is there any other way to score boxing?

-Ian
 
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I love the way that boxing is scored. The issue is with the judges, and I'm not blaming them. I blame boxing for not training them properly. They should be put through classes and shown examples of every type of round possible, then telling them how it should be scored and why. The judges hold all the cards (no pun intended), they need to fully comptitent.
 
G

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5 judges wouldn't be a bad idea and it would cut down the amount of bad decisions. You have to feel sorry for guys who go through intense training for weeks prior to a fight to be shafted out of a clear victory because of poor judging.
 

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Registered
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735 Posts
Ok, maybe the title of this thread is a little much, but lately I've noticed people saying weird things all over the forum. Saying things like:
"We all saw how Hopkins whooped Calzaghe"
or
"Well, Marquez beat Pacquiao so Marquez should..."

Comments like this have got to end. Whether or not I scored either of those they way the judges did doesn't matter. Look, if at every turn we belittle our judges (and system of judging) we do nothing but diminish the integrity of boxing.
I'm not saying disagreements are not OK, of course its OK to ask a judge why he/she scored it, and if you do not agree with their decisions, but to claim fighters "won" or "lost" when there record says otherwise does nothing undermine what boxing is all about.

Boxing is subjective, we should all understand that. We should also understand that when you say "Marquez clearly beat Pacman" that the statement can be true to you, but totally false to somebody else. We have panel of 3 judges at each fight to set a unit of measure, to give an answer to a subjective problem. If we constantly undermine this system, then there is no point to any of it, no basis for rankings, no reason to have belts. If nobody is sure about which fighters won which fights, because everybody is saying something different, then nobody knows which fighter is good or bad.

Like i said, its ok to dissagree, and say things like "well i scored it this way..." but when people make the claim that somebody else woon or lost, it starts to cause problems.

i'm just ranting..what do you guys think about this situation?
You mean like people who say that Tito lost to DLH. When the record says otherwise.
 
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You mean like people who say that Tito lost to DLH. When the record says otherwise.
I mean fights like that were the winner was clear but the wrong guy got the decision due to incompetent judging. Bias fans will always cling onto the "official" scoring and kid themselves that their guy won.
 
G

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I mean fights like that were the winner was clear but the wrong guy got the decision due to incompetent judging. Bias fans will always cling onto the "official" scoring and kid themselves that their guy won.
And bias fans will also claim that DLH beat Floyd and Mosley beat Cotto. It goes both ways. The judges need to be the official word, they just need to do a better job.

It's part of the sport. Referees/Umpires/Judges have blown games in every major sport. It happens.
 
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And bias fans will also claim that DLH beat Floyd and Mosley beat Cotto. It goes both ways. The judges need to be the official word, they just need to do a better job.

It's part of the sport. Referees/Umpires/Judges have blown games in every major sport. It happens.
Of course it happens but it would happen less if there were 5 judges scoring. I know what you mean about it happening both ways but that's no consolation to guys who miss out on career high paydays because of fights they got robbed in.
 
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Of course it happens but it would happen less if there were 5 judges scoring. I know what you mean about it happening both ways but that's no consolation to guys who miss out on career high paydays because of fights they got robbed in.
I'm not against the 5 judge thing. The only issue is that boxing will have to bring in even more judges who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to scoring a fight. 5 judges could have 5 different scores and it would create even more contraversy than ever.
 
G

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I'm not against the 5 judge thing. The only issue is that boxing will have to bring in even more judges who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to scoring a fight. 5 judges could have 5 different scores and it would create even more contraversy than ever.
Yeah there is a possibility of that happening too, but overall I think it would be a good thing and reduce the amount of crap decisions. The need to look at a way to give these guys the proper training so that there is less people scoring Diaz-Katsidis for Katsidis. :laugh: We're a long way off having 5 judges but it's something that could be looked at for the future.
 
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