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The Professor
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Sugar Ray Robinson


Undefeated Amateur Featherweight Golden Gloves Champion
Undefeated Amateur Lightweight Golden Gloves Champion
Undefeated & Uncrowned Lightweight Champion
Undefeated Welterweight Champion
5 Time World Middleweight Champion
And Nearly the Light Heavyweight Champion


Amateur Career:


Overall, Robinson had an open record of 85-0, winning both the Featherweight and Lightweight Golden Gloves Championships in the process. 65 of the wins came by KO, 40 of which took place in the first round.


Lightweight Career:


You're probably asking yourself, “What Lightweight career?”. Although a brief one, Robinson did in fact have a substantial Lightweight career. He beat the NBA and soon to be World Lightweight Champion (Sammy Angott) after all, whilst maintaining a record of 21-0 with 18 KOs. His additional notable opponents included Pete Lello and Maxie Shapiro.


Welterweight Career:


As a Welterweight, Robinson was undefeated. Going against the likes of Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, and Kid Gavilan, this was an impressive feat. Counting Robinson's actual amount of Welterweight fights is rather tricky considering he often mixed it up with Middleweights as well. Nonetheless I have calculated that it was about 58 fights. He won them all without draws, and did so with no real controversial victories, the closest to controversy being the first fight with Kid Gavilan.


Middleweight Career:


Notable Championship Wins:
Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Bobo Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)


Notable Championship Losses:
Randy Turpin (PTS 15)
Gene Fullmer (UD 15)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)


In 29 fights, starting from when he won the Middleweight Championship the first time to losing it for the last time he had 22 wins, 6 losses, and 1 NC. One loss came when he challenged for the Light Heavyweight title and was winning the fight on all cards decisively but was unable to make it off his stool going into the 14th round due to heat prostration from the 100+ degree temperature. Of the remaining 5 losses, 2 were by split decision, and he was never knocked out. And just for the record, he was never knocked out in his entire 25 year / 203 fight career. But getting back on subject, he avenged all of his losses in Middleweight title fights during this period except for the last against Paul Pender (after Robinson was already clearly over the hill). Pender would later retire as Middleweight Champion. By the time he fought Pender, Robinson already had 20 years and 150 fights under his belt.


It's also important to note that Robinson as a Welterweight had beat Jake LaMotta 4 out of 5 times prior to their Middleweight Championship bout. During these times LaMotta was always considered a top contender, but due to Zale being drafted, then poor management and bad dealings with the mob, LaMotta simply could not get a title shot until 1949. From as early as 1942 (just two years into Robinson's career) he would fight Middleweights in between Welterweight fights starting with Jake LaMotta. 8 years would go by before Robinson's second loss to a Middleweight (Randy Turpin). When Turpin beat Robinson, Ray had already previously had 132 professional bouts.


Robinson's MW Record before becoming World Champion for the 1st time:
*Includes his winning of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable


Wins:
Jake LaMotta (x5)
Vic Dellicurti (x3)
Lou Woods
Jose Basora
Jimmy Mandell
Tony Riccio
Freddie Flores (x2)
Freddie Wilson (x2)
Vinnie Vines
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Eddie Finazzo
Ossie Harris (x2)
Henry Brimm (x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Cecil Hudson (x2)
Steve Belloise
Charley Dodson
Aaron Wade
Cliff Beckett (x2)
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Billy Brown
Joe Rindone
Bobo Olson
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Losses:
Jake LaMotta II
Draws:
Jose Basora
Henry Brimm


That's 43 Middleweight wins with only 1 loss and 2 draws upon winning the World Championship.




Robinson's MW Record from after winning the title for the 1st time to losing it for the last time:
*Does not include his first winning of the title
*Does not include his last loss of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable


Wins:
Holley Mims
Don Ellis
Kid Marcel
Jean Wanes
Jan de Bruin
Jean Walzack
Gerhard Hecht (Although declared a NC, for all intensive purposes it's a win)
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin

Bobo Olson (x3)
Rocky Graziano

Joe Rindone
Johnny Lombardo
Ted Olla
Garth Panter
Rocky Castellani

Bob Provizzi
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio

Bob Young
Losses:
Randy Turpin I
Joey Maxim
Ralph Jones
Gene Fullmer I
Carmen Basilio I


That's 22 Middleweight wins with 5 losses, but 1 was at LHW.


So lets do some math here, 46 + 26 = 72. Robinson essentially had 72 Middleweight fights before you could officially label him as washed up. Of those 72 fights, he won 65, lost 5, and drew twice. One loss came in a fight where he was outweighed by 16 lbs, and three came after he returned from retirement. Randy Turpin's win over Robinson is perhaps the only really meaningful one. Everyone who beat Robinson, aside from Tiger Jones (who caught Robinson nearly just out of retirement), was a great fighter. The names on his resume speak for themselves, the man truly was the greatest.


So why do people consider guys like Marvin Hagler greater Middleweights than Sugar Ray Robinson? Do people fault Robinson for Tony Zale being drafted and causing the Middleweight title to be hijacked for half of the 40s? When Tony finally came back, he had his little trilogy with Graziano, then immediately lost to Cerdan, who would lose to LaMotta in less than a year. While Cerdan was still prime (before his brief stint as World Champion) his handlers never made a fight with Robinson happen. Actually, from 1943 to until Cerdan became Champion, Cerdan was never rated higher than #3 in the Ring Annual Ratings, was never rated at all prior to 1943, and was not rated in the year 1944. So what could Robinson have done to prove he could have beat any Middleweight during most of the 40s other than what he already did? I mean, I guess during the early 40s one could claim he could have fought Holman Williams and the Cocoa Kid before they were washed up, and during any time in the 40s he could have fought Charley Burley. These guys really were the best there were, but since they were Black and their name wasn't Sugar, they were mainly ducked by marquee fighters. Considering they all held the Colored World Middleweight Championship, I don't think I need to substantiate that. Those fights would have pretty much been considered high risk with no reward for Robinson. Cerdan and LaMotta however would later fight Holman Williams. Problem was, the early 40s were long gone and Holman was already washed up.


Anyhow, if not fighting 3 guys that no one else would during the 40s keeps Robinson out of contention as the greatest Middleweight ever next to Harry Greb, then perhaps Hagler's 2 losses and 1 draw with the Philadelphia boys (who come nowhere near the greatness of the 3 Colored Middleweight Champions I just mentioned) should be held against him too. Non-believers in Robinson's ability as a Middleweight either set some absurdly high standards, or simply don't know enough facts. If I did this kind of Middleweight analysis with anyone else, only Harry Greb would look worthy. Both Hagler and Monzon have only fought briefly past their prime, and neither fought after they were over the hill. Not to mention, Monzon really should have been a Light Heavyweight. Robinson and Greb were still beating the best there was while washed up, that says a lot. And while they were past their prime, they managed to still beat better guys than Hagler or Monzon ever did IN their prime. And that, is truly impressive.




Overall Career Analysis:


*Info below uses Ring Annual Ratings


SRR Unquantified-but-Detailed Resume:
Pete Lello (#3 LW – 1940)
Sammy Angott (#1 LW – 1940, LW Champ – 1941, #2 LW – 1943, #8 WW – 1945)
Maxie Shapiro (#8 LW – 1942)
Marty Servo [Undefeated] (WW Champ – 1946)
Fritzie Zivic (WW Champ – 1940, #3 WW – 1941, #8 WW 1942)
Maxie Berger (JWW Champ – 1939, #6 WW – 1940)
Norman Rubio (#10 WW – 1941)
Reuben Shank (#8 MW – 1943)
Tony Motisi (#9 WW – 1942)
Jake LaMotta (#6 MW – 1942, #1 MW – 1943, #2 MW – 1944, #3 MW – 1945, #1 MW – 1946)
(#5 MW – 1947, #3 MW – 1948, MW Champ – 1949 & 1950)
Izzy Janazzo (#2 WW – 1940, #8 WW – 1941 & 1943)
Vic Dellicurti (#10 MW – 1944)
Al Nettlow (couple close fights with Bob Montgomery, beat Maxie Berger)
California Jackie Wilson (#2 WW – 1941, #3 WW – 1942)
Ralph Zannelli (#5 WW – 1943, #4 WW – 1947)
Henry Armstrong (WW Champ – 1938 & 1939, #1 WW – 1940, #2 WW – 1942, #1 WW – 1944)
Sheik Rangel (#10 WW – 1942)
George Martin (beat Ralph Zannelli, Garvey Young, V. Vines, Pedro Montanez, Battling Battalino)
(Andy Callahan)

Tommy Bell (#1 WW – 1946, #2 WW – 1947)
George Costner (#5 WW – 1947, #2 WW – 1949)
Jimmy McDaniels (#4 WW – 1944)
O'Neill Bell (just beat George Costner, Jackie Wilson, and Fritzie Zivic back to back to back)
Joe Curcio (beat Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson, and Johnny Green)
Vinnie Vines (beat Sam Baroudi and Jackie Alzek)
Ossie Harris (beat Tommy Bell, Reuben Shank, and Fritzie Zivic)
Cecil Hudson (beat Tommy Bell, Fritzie Zivic, Freddie Dixon, Ossie Harris, & Sheik Rangel)
Artie Levine (beat Jimmy Doyle, Marvin Bryant, Vic Dellicurti, Herbie Kronowitz, & Joe Agosta)
Georgie Abrams (#5 MW – 1946)
Jimmy Doyle (#2 WW – 1945, #7 WW – 1946)
Billy Nixon (beat Johnny Green, Buster Tyler, & Johnny Hutchinson)
Chuck Taylor (beat Frankie Abrams, Tony Pellone, and Honeychile Johnson)
Henry Brimm (beat Vic Dellicurti, Holman Williams, Joey DeJohn, Arte Towne, & Tony Elizondo)
Bernard Docusen (#3 WW – 1948 & 1949)
Kid Gavilan (#1 WW – 1948, 1949, 1950, & 1951, WW Champ – 1952 & 1953)
Bobby Lee (beat Livio Minelli, Billy Nixon, Nava Esparza, Dorsey Lay, Honeychile Johnson)
(Chico Varona, & Gene Burton)

Don Lee (beat Jimmy McDaniels, Vince Foster, Sheik Rangel, Joe Danos, Howard Bleyhl)
(Billy Tierney)

Earl Turner (beat Sheik Rangel, Fred Apostoli, Cecil Hudson, Cocoa Kid, Don Lee, Jackie Wilson)
(George Costner, George Duke, etc)

Steve Belloise (#2 MW – 1948, #5 MW – 1949)
Al Mobley (beat Fritzie Zivic, Georgie Benton, Honeychile Johnson, George Martin, Sylvester Perkins)
(Otis Graham, & Bert Linam)

Aaron Wade (#7 MW – 1945)
Ray Barnes (#7 MW – 1950)
Robert Villemain (#3 MW – 1949, #8 MW – 1950, #9 MW – 1951)
Charley Fusari (#3 WW – 1950, #8 WW – 1951)
Jose Basora (#4 MW – 1943 & 1944)
Joe Rindone (beat Ralph Zannelli, Paul Pender, Bob Murphy, Pierre Langlois, Joe Blackwood)
(Charley Zivic, & Henry Lee)

Bobo Olson (#3 MW – 1952, MW Champ – 1953 & 1954, #1 MW – 1955)
Bobby ***** (#2 WW – 1952, #5 MW – 1953)
Jean Stock (beat Randy Turpin, Bobby Dawson, Omar Kouidri, Cyrille Delannoit, Robert Charron)
(Edouard Tenet)

Luc van Dam (beat Jean Stock, Cyrille Delannoit, Jacques Royer Crecy, Albert Finch)
(Bep van Klaveren, & Felix Wouters)

Hans Stretz (beat Randy Turpin, Jacques Royer Crecy, Al Mobley, Peter Mueller, Rudi Pepper)
(Carl Schmidt, Heinz Sanger, Alex Buxton, Johnny Sullivan, Franco Festucci)

Holley Mims (#8 MW – 1953, #3 MW – 1954, #6 MW – 1955)
Cyrille Delannoit (#5 MW – 1948)
Randy Turpin (#1 MW – 1951 & 1952, MW Champ – 1951)
Rocky Graziano (#3 MW – 1946, MW Champ – 1947, #10 MW – 1948 & 1951)
Garth Panter (beat Pierre Langlois, Walter Cartier, and Earl Turner)
Rocky Castellani (#1 MW – 1953, #2 MW – 1954, #5 MW – 1955)
Gene Fullmer (#1 MW – 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #2 MW – 1957 & 1958)
(#1 MW – 1959, 1960, 1961, & 1962)

Carmen Basilio (WW Champ – 1955 & 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #1 MW – 1958)
Denny Moyer (#9 MW – 1961, #6 MW – 1962, JMW Champ – 1963, #9 MW – 1968, #2 MW – 1969)
Ralph Dupas (#2 WW – 1961, #3 WW – 1962, #4 WW – 1963, JMW Champ – 1963)
Yoland Leveque (beat Bennie Briscoe, Jacques Marty, Art Hernandez, & Bo Hogberg)




Sugar Ray Robinson


Notable Wins:
Pete Lello
Sammy Angott (x3) [Lightweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Shapiro
Marty Servo (x2) [Undefeated] [Future Welterweight Champion]
Fritzie Zivic (x2) [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Berger [Former Junior Welterweight Champion]
Norman Rubio (x2)
Reuben Shank
Tony Motisi
Jake LaMotta (x5) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Izzy Janazzo (x4) [Post-Prime]
Vic Dellicurti (x2)
Al Nettlow
California Jackie Wilson (x2)
Ralph Zannelli
Henry Armstrong [Post-Prime] [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Sheik Rangel
George Martin
Tommy Bell (x2)
George Costner (x2)
Jimmy McDaniels
O'Neill Bell
Joe Curcio
Vinnie Vines
Ossie Harris
Cecil Hudson I
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Billy Nixon
Chuck Taylor
Henry Brimm
Bernard Docusen
Kid Gavilan (x2) [Future Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Lee(x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Steve Belloise
Al Mobley
Aaron Wade [Over the Hill]
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Charley Fusari
Jose Basora
Joe Rindone (x2)
Bobo Olson (x4) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby *****
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Holley Mims [Pre-Prime]
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Rocky Graziano [Post-Prime] [Former Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Garth Panter
Rocky Castellani
Gene Fullmer [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Carmen Basilio [Welterweight and Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Denny Moyer [Light Middleweight Champion]
Ralph Dupas [Light Middleweight Champion]
Yoland Leveque
Notable Losses:
Jake LaMotta II [Robinson outweighed by 16 lbs]
Randy Turpin I [Ehm...Turpin was a beast?]
Joey Maxim [Robinson had the fight won but feinted in the hot sun]
Ralph Tiger Jones [Robinson Post-Prime & Rusty]
Gene Fullmer I [Robinson Post-Prime]
Carmen Basilio I [Robinson Post-Prime]
Notable NCs:
Gerhard Hecht
Questionable Wins:
Marty Servo II
Jake LaMotta V
Georgie Abrams
Artie Levine (long 10 count in 4th round)
Ralph Dupas [Robinson over the hill]
Questionable Losses:
Paul Pender (x2)
Questionable Draws:
Jose Basura [Could have gone either way, Robinson would KO Basura in 1 round 5 years later]
Gene Fullmer III [Should have gone to Robinson]




'A' level wins:
Sammy Angott (x3), Fritzie Zivic (x2), Jake LaMotta (x5), Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan (x2), Bobo Olson (x4), Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio
'A-' level wins:
Marty Servo (x2), Tommy Bell (x2), George Costner (x2), Jimmy Doyle, Robert Villemain (x2), Rocky Graziano, Rocky Castellani, Denny Moyer
'B' level wins:
Pete Lello, Norman Rubio (x2), Reuben Shank, California Jackie Wilson (x2), Ralph Zannelli, Jimmy McDaniels, O'Neill Bell, Joe Curcio, Cecil Hudson I, Artie Levine, Georgie Abrams, Bernard Docusen, Don Lee (x2), Earl Turner, Steve Belloise, Charley Fusari, Jose Basora, Joe Rindone (x2), Bobby *****, Cyrille Delannoit
'B-' level wins:
Maxie Shapiro, Maxie Berger, Tony Motisi, Izzy Janazzo (x4), Vic Dellicurti (x2), Al Nettlow, Sheik Rangel, George Martin, Vinnie Vines, Ossie Harris I, Billy Nixon, Chuck Taylor, Henry Brimm, Bobby Lee (x2), Al Mobley, Aaron Wade, Ray Barnes, Jean Stock, Luc van Dam, Hans Stretz, Holley Mims, Garth Panter, Yoland Leveque, Gerhard Hecht (half credit)

Point Total: 29 + 15 + 23 + 12.5 – 9 = 70.5

*Note 1, for the sake of argument, considered Robinson prime up until his first retirement.

*Note 2, only counted the TKO loss to Maxim as a 2 pt deduction due to the extreme environmental hazard that would have otherwise resulted in a decision win for Robinson.
 

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The Professor
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Discussion Starter #2
As many of you will see from time to time I have my own numerical point system for evaluating a fighters career. This post is to explain how the system works. Please don't consider my system the be all and end all in regards to how I evaluate a fighter's career. It's just something I find useful to use when trying to narrow things down. Anyways, here it is:

Criteria
Notable Wins:

  • Any wins over proven quality opposition (currently B- / B / A- / A rated at the time of the fight)
Notable Losses:

  • Losses that occurred during the near prime but pre-prime
  • Losses that occurred during the prime
  • Losses that occurred during the near prime but post-prime
Questionable Wins / Losses / Draws:

  • Any disputed victory or defeat regardless of prime status or quality of opposition
Notable NCs:

  • No-contests become notable for a fighter if he was clearly winning
  • Quality of opposition is relevant
Quality Points:

  • B- rated fighters are worth .5 points
  • B rated fighters are worth 1 point
  • A- rated fighters are worth 1.5 points
  • A rated fighters are worth 2 points
  • Repeat victories over an opponent are worth half the original point value
  • In the case of a notable NC half the appropriate point value is given
Detraction Points:

  • Prime losses by decision cost 2 points, pre / post cost 1 point
  • Prime losses by stoppage cost 4 points, pre / post cost 2 points
  • Repeat losses cost half the appropriate value
Basic Rules for Defining a Fighter's Credibility:
  • A fighter must have multiple wins over other credible opponents at some point in his career
  • Over the hill 'A' level fighters count as 'A- / B / B-' level depending on how great they still are
  • Post-Prime fighters can lose only half a grade at most
  • When a great fighter becomes reduced to below B- level performances, he is considered shot and a win over such a fighter is not counted
  • Exceptions can be made to the above stated rules, but will be noted

I define a credible opponent by the accomplishment of beating 2 or more other credible fighters. Losses are not taken into account when assessing if another fighter is credible, unless a win over such a fighter came in a period of which that fighter did nothing but lose. Exceptions can be made for a fighter's credibility (should he not have at least 2 credible wins) if he was a victim of close decision losses or drew with 'A' level opponents. Also, exceptions can also be made that an over the hill former 'A' level fighter merely reduces to A- in the case that he was really 'A+' level to begin with. Also, opponents who normally fought 1 full weight class below the class that the fight took place at, who were able to beat credible opposition in the higher weight class, are considered credible as well. If you doubt the legitness of any of the names you see on these resumes, I encourage you to challenge me on it. I don't know everything, and I do make mistakes and/or over look things. I'm open to suggestions about my placement of opponents in the A / A- / B / B- departments. Please don't think of these ratings like real grades, A- and B- merely mean between A and B and between B and C respectively. For my point evaluations I go strictly by the record, no subjectivity involved.
 

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Man, i'm going to look into this thing for a while. This is great, and really really shows how great Robinson really was compared to others that are considered close to him in greatness.

I'm telling you, a top 50 greatest boxers book under this point system and in-depth explanations and facts would basically sell itself. It'll get high praise, probably looked at as one of the most credible sources in ranking a fighter.
 

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Sugar Ray Robinson


Undefeated Amateur Featherweight Golden Gloves Champion
Undefeated & Uncrowned Lightweight Champion
Undefeated Welterweight Champion
5 Time World Middleweight Champion
And Nearly the Light Heavyweight Champion


Amateur Career:


Overall, Robinson had a record of 85-0, winning both the Featherweight and Lightweight Golden Gloves Championships in the process. 65 of the wins came by KO, 40 of which took place in the first round.


Lightweight Career:


You're probably asking yourself, “What Lightweight career?”. Although a brief one, Robinson did in fact have a substantial Lightweight career. He beat the NBA and soon to be World Lightweight Champion (Sammy Angott) after all, whilst maintaining a record of 21-0 with 18 KOs. His additional notable opponents included Pete Lello and Maxie Shapiro.


Welterweight Career:


As a Welterweight, Robinson was undefeated. Going against the likes of Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, and Kid Gavilan, this was an impressive feat. Counting Robinson's actual amount of Welterweight fights is rather tricky considering he often mixed it up with Middleweights as well. Nonetheless I have calculated that it was about 58 fights. He won them all without draws, and did so with no real controversial victories, the closest to controversy being the first fight with Kid Gavilan.


Middleweight Career:


Notable Championship Wins:
Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Bobo Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)


Notable Championship Losses:
Randy Turpin (PTS 15)
Gene Fullmer (UD 15)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)


In 29 fights, starting from when he won the Middleweight Championship the first time to losing it for the last time he had 22 wins, 6 losses, and 1 NC. One loss came when he challenged for the Light Heavyweight title and was winning the fight on all cards decisively but was unable to make it off his stool going into the 14th round due to heat prostration from the 100+ degree temperature. Of the remaining 5 losses, 2 were by split decision, and he was never knocked out. And just for the record, he was never knocked out in his entire 25 year / 203 fight career. But getting back on subject, he avenged all of his losses in Middleweight title fights during this period except for the last against Paul Pender (after Robinson was already clearly over the hill). Pender would later retire as Middleweight Champion. By the time he fought Pender, Robinson already had 20 years and 150 fights under his belt.


It's also important to note that Robinson as a Welterweight had beat Jake LaMotta 4 out of 5 times prior to their Middleweight Championship bout. During these times LaMotta was always considered a top contender, but due to Zale being drafted, then poor management and bad dealings with the mob, LaMotta simply could not get a title shot until 1949. From as early as 1942 (just two years into Robinson's career) he would fight Middleweights in between Welterweight fights starting with Jake LaMotta. 8 years would go by before Robinson's second loss to a Middleweight (Randy Turpin). When Turpin beat Robinson, Ray had already previously had 132 professional bouts.


Robinson's MW Record before becoming World Champion for the 1st time:
*Includes his winning of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable


Wins:
Jake LaMotta (x5)
Vic Dellicurti (x3)
Lou Woods
Jose Basora
Jimmy Mandell
Tony Riccio
Freddie Flores (x2)
Freddie Wilson (x2)
Vinnie Vines
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Eddie Finazzo
Ossie Harris (x2)
Henry Brimm (x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Cecil Hudson (x2)
Steve Belloise
Charley Dodson
Aaron Wade
Cliff Beckett (x2)
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Billy Brown
Joe Rindone
Bobo Olson
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Losses:
Jake LaMotta II
Draws:
Jose Basora
Henry Brimm


That's 43 Middleweight wins with only 1 loss and 2 draws upon winning the World Championship.




Robinson's MW Record from after winning the title for the 1st time to losing it for the last time:
*Does not include his first winning of the title
*Does not include his last loss of the title
*Fighters in bold are notable


Wins:
Holley Mims
Don Ellis
Kid Marcel
Jean Wanes
Jan de Bruin
Jean Walzack
Gerhard Hecht (Although declared a NC, for all intensive purposes it's a win)
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin

Bobo Olson (x3)
Rocky Graziano

Joe Rindone
Johnny Lombardo
Ted Olla
Garth Panter
Rocky Castellani

Bob Provizzi
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio

Bob Young
Losses:
Randy Turpin I
Joey Maxim
Ralph Jones
Gene Fullmer I
Carmen Basilio I


That's 22 Middleweight wins with 5 losses, but 1 was at LHW.


So lets do some math here, 46 + 26 = 72. Robinson essentially had 72 Middleweight fights before you could officially label him as washed up. Of those 72 fights, he won 65, lost 5, and drew twice. One loss came in a fight where he was outweighed by 16 lbs, and three came after he returned from retirement. Randy Turpin's win over Robinson is perhaps the only really meaningful one. Everyone who beat Robinson, aside from Tiger Jones (who caught Robinson nearly just out of retirement), was a great fighter. The names on his resume speak for themselves, the man truly was the greatest.


So why do people consider guys like Marvin Hagler greater Middleweights than Sugar Ray Robinson? Do people fault Robinson for Tony Zale being drafted and causing the Middleweight title to be hijacked for half of the 40s? When Tony finally came back, he had his little trilogy with Graziano, then immediately lost to Cerdan, who would lose to LaMotta in less than a year. While Cerdan was still prime (before his brief stint as World Champion) his handlers never made a fight with Robinson happen. Actually, from 1943 to until Cerdan became Champion, Cerdan was never rated higher than #3 in the Ring Annual Ratings, was never rated at all prior to 1943, and was not rated in the year 1944. So what could Robinson have done to prove he could have beat any Middleweight during most of the 40s other than what he already did? I mean, I guess during the early 40s one could claim he could have fought Holman Williams and the Cocoa Kid before they were washed up, and during any time in the 40s he could have fought Charley Burley. These guys really were the best there were, but since they were Black and their name wasn't Sugar, they were mainly ducked by marquee fighters. Considering they all held the Colored World Middleweight Championship, I don't think I need to substantiate that. Those fights would have pretty much been considered high risk with no reward for Robinson. Cerdan and LaMotta however would later fight Holman Williams. Problem was, the early 40s were long gone and Holman was already washed up.


Anyhow, if not fighting 3 guys that no one else would during the 40s keeps Robinson out of contention as the greatest Middleweight ever next to Harry Greb, then perhaps Hagler's 2 losses and 1 draw with the Philadelphia boys (who come nowhere near the greatness of the 3 Colored Middleweight Champions I just mentioned) should be held against him too. Non-believers in Robinson's ability as a Middleweight either set some absurdly high standards, or simply don't know enough facts. If I did this kind of Middleweight analysis with anyone else, only Harry Greb would look worthy. Both Hagler and Monzon have only fought briefly past their prime, and neither fought after they were over the hill. Not to mention, Monzon really should have been a Light Heavyweight. Robinson and Greb were still beating the best there was while washed up, that says a lot. And while they were past their prime, they managed to still beat better guys than Hagler or Monzon ever did IN their prime. And that, is truly impressive.




Overall Career Analysis:


*Info below uses Ring Annual Ratings


SRR Unquantified-but-Detailed Resume:
Pete Lello (#3 LW – 1940)
Sammy Angott (#1 LW – 1940, LW Champ – 1941, #2 LW – 1943, #8 WW – 1945)
Maxie Shapiro (#8 LW – 1942)
Marty Servo [Undefeated] (WW Champ – 1946)
Fritzie Zivic (WW Champ – 1940, #3 WW – 1941, #8 WW 1942)
Maxie Berger (JWW Champ – 1939, #6 WW – 1940)
Norman Rubio (#10 WW – 1941)
Reuben Shank (#8 MW – 1943)
Tony Motisi (#9 WW – 1942)
Jake LaMotta (#6 MW – 1942, #1 MW – 1943, #2 MW – 1944, #3 MW – 1945, #1 MW – 1946)
(#5 MW – 1947, #3 MW – 1948, MW Champ – 1949 & 1950)
Izzy Janazzo (#2 WW – 1940, #8 WW – 1941 & 1943)
Vic Dellicurti (#10 MW – 1944)
Al Nettlow (couple close fights with Bob Montgomery, beat Maxie Berger)
California Jackie Wilson (#2 WW – 1941, #3 WW – 1942)
Ralph Zannelli (#5 WW – 1943, #4 WW – 1947)
Henry Armstrong (WW Champ – 1938 & 1939, #1 WW – 1940, #2 WW – 1942, #1 WW – 1944)
Sheik Rangel (#10 WW – 1942)
George Martin (beat Ralph Zannelli, Garvey Young, Vinnie Vines, Pedro Montanez, Battling Battalino) (Andy Callahan)
Tommy Bell (#1 WW – 1946, #2 WW – 1947)
George Costner (#5 WW – 1947, #2 WW – 1949)
Jimmy McDaniels (#4 WW – 1944)
O'Neill Bell (just beat George Costner, Jackie Wilson, and Fritzie Zivic back to back to back)
Joe Curcio (beat Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson, and Johnny Green)
Vinnie Vines (beat Sam Baroudi and Jackie Alzek)
Ossie Harris (beat Tommy Bell, Reuben Shank, and Fritzie Zivic)
Cecil Hudson (beat Tommy Bell, Fritzie Zivic, Freddie Dixon, Ossie Harris, & Sheik Rangel)
Artie Levine (beat Jimmy Doyle, Marvin Bryant, Vic Dellicurti, Herbie Kronowitz, & Joe Agosta)
Georgie Abrams (#5 MW – 1946)
Jimmy Doyle (#2 WW – 1945, #7 WW – 1946)
Billy Nixon (beat Johnny Green, Buster Tyler, & Johnny Hutchinson)
Henry Brimm (beat Vic Dellicurti, Holman Williams, Joey DeJohn, Arte Towne, & Tony Elizondo)
Bernard Docusen (#3 WW – 1948 & 1949)
Kid Gavilan (#1 WW – 1948, 1949, 1950, & 1951, WW Champ – 1952 & 1953)
Bobby Lee (beat Livio Minelli, Billy Nixon, Nava Esparza, Dorsey Lay, Honeychile Johnson)
(Chico Varona, & Gene Burton)
Don Lee (beat Jimmy McDaniels, Vince Foster, Sheik Rangel, Joe Danos, Howard Bleyhl)
(Billy Tierney)
Earl Turner (beat Sheik Rangel, Fred Apostoli, Cecil Hudson, Cocoa Kid, Don Lee, Jackie Wilson) (George Costner, George Duke, etc)
Steve Belloise (#2 MW – 1948, #5 MW – 1949)
Al Mobley (beat Fritzie Zivic, Georgie Benton, Honeychile Johnson, George Martin, Sylvester Perkins) (Otis Graham, & Bert Linam)
Aaron Wade (#7 MW – 1945)
Ray Barnes (#7 MW – 1950)
Robert Villemain (#3 MW – 1949, #8 MW – 1950, #9 MW – 1951)
Charley Fusari (#3 WW – 1950, #8 WW – 1951)
Jose Basora (#4 MW – 1943 & 1944)
Joe Rindone (beat Ralph Zannelli, Paul Pender, Bob Murphy, Pierre Langlois, Joe Blackwood)
(Charley Zivic, & Henry Lee)
Bobo Olson (#3 MW – 1952, MW Champ – 1953 & 1954, #1 MW – 1955)
Bobby ***** (#2 WW – 1952, #5 MW – 1953)
Jean Stock (beat Randy Turpin, Bobby Dawson, Omar Kouidri, Cyrille Delannoit, Robert Charron) (Edouard Tenet)
Luc van Dam (beat Jean Stock, Cyrille Delannoit, Jacques Royer Crecy, Albert Finch)
(Bep van Klaveren, & Felix Wouters)
Hans Stretz (beat Randy Turpin, Jacques Royer Crecy, Al Mobley, Peter Mueller, Rudi Pepper)
(Carl Schmidt, Heinz Sanger, Alex Buxton, Johnny Sullivan, Franco Festucci)
Holley Mims (#8 MW – 1953, #3 MW – 1954, #6 MW – 1955)
Cyrille Delannoit (#5 MW – 1948)
Randy Turpin (#1 MW – 1951 & 1952, MW Champ – 1951)
Rocky Graziano (#3 MW – 1946, MW Champ – 1947, #10 MW – 1948 & 1951)
Garth Panter (beat Pierre Langlois, Walter Cartier, and Earl Turner)
Rocky Castellani (#1 MW – 1953, #2 MW – 1954, #5 MW – 1955)
Gene Fullmer (#1 MW – 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #2 MW – 1957 & 1958)
(#1 MW – 1959, 1960, 1961, & 1962)
Carmen Basilio (WW Champ – 1955 & 1956, MW Champ – 1957, #1 MW – 1958)
Denny Moyer (#9 MW – 1961, #6 MW – 1962, JMW Champ – 1963, #9 MW – 1968, #2 MW – 1969)
Ralph Dupas (#2 WW – 1961, #3 WW – 1962, #4 WW – 1963, JMW Champ – 1963)
Yoland Leveque (beat Bennie Briscoe, Jacques Marty, Art Hernandez, & Bo Hogberg)




Sugar Ray Robinson


Notable Wins:
Pete Lello
Sammy Angott (x3) [Lightweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Shapiro
Marty Servo (x2) [Undefeated] [Future Welterweight Champion]
Fritzie Zivic (x2) [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Maxie Berger [Former Junior Welterweight Champion]
Norman Rubio (x2)
Reuben Shank
Tony Motisi
Jake LaMotta (x5) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Izzy Janazzo (x4) [Post-Prime]
Vic Dellicurti (x2)
Al Nettlow
California Jackie Wilson (x2)
Ralph Zannelli
Henry Armstrong [Post-Prime] [Former Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Sheik Rangel
George Martin
Tommy Bell (x2)
George Costner (x2)
Jimmy McDaniels
O'Neill Bell
Joe Curcio
Vinnie Vines
Ossie Harris
Cecil Hudson I
Artie Levine
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Billy Nixon
Henry Brimm
Bernard Docusen
Kid Gavilan (x2) [Future Welterweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby Lee(x2)
Don Lee (x2)
Earl Turner
Steve Belloise
Al Mobley
Aaron Wade [Over the Hill]
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain (x2)
Charley Fusari
Jose Basora
Joe Rindone (x2)
Bobo Olson (x4) [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Bobby *****
Jean Stock
Luc van Dam
Hans Stretz
Holley Mims [Pre-Prime]
Cyrille Delannoit
Randy Turpin [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Rocky Graziano [Post-Prime] [Former Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Garth Panter
Rocky Castellani
Gene Fullmer [Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Carmen Basilio [Welterweight and Middleweight Champion, Hall of Famer]
Denny Moyer [Light Middleweight Champion]
Ralph Dupas [Light Middleweight Champion]
Yoland Leveque
Notable Losses:
Jake LaMotta II [Robinson outweighed by 16 lbs]
Randy Turpin I [Ehm...Turpin was a beast?]
Joey Maxim [Robinson had the fight won but feinted in the hot sun]
Ralph Tiger Jones [Robinson Post-Prime & Rusty]
Gene Fullmer I [Robinson Post-Prime]
Carmen Basilio I [Robinson Post-Prime]
Notable NCs:
Gerhard Hecht
Questionable Wins:
Marty Servo II
Jake LaMotta V
Georgie Abrams
Ralph Dupas [Robinson over the hill]
Questionable Losses:
Paul Pender (x2)
Questionable Draws:
Jose Basura [Could have gone either way, Robinson would KO Basura in 1 round 5 years later]
Gene Fullmer III [Should have gone to Robinson]




'A' level wins:
Sammy Angott (x3), Fritzie Zivic (x2), Jake LaMotta (x5), Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan (x2), Bobo Olson (x4), Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio
'A-' level wins:
Marty Servo (x2), Tommy Bell (x2), George Costner (x2), Jimmy Doyle, Robert Villemain (x2), Rocky Graziano, Rocky Castellani, Denny Moyer
'B' level wins:
Pete Lello, Norman Rubio (x2), Reuben Shank, California Jackie Wilson (x2), Ralph Zannelli, Jimmy McDaniels, O'Neill Bell, Joe Curcio, Cecil Hudson I, Artie Levine, Georgie Abrams, Bernard Docusen, Don Lee (x2), Earl Turner, Steve Belloise, Charley Fusari, Jose Basora, Joe Rindone (x2), Bobby *****, Cyrille Delannoit
'B-' level wins:
Maxie Shapiro, Maxie Berger, Tony Motisi, Izzy Janazzo (x4), Vic Dellicurti (x2), Al Nettlow, Sheik Rangel, George Martin, Vinnie Vines, Ossie Harris I, Billy Nixon, Henry Brimm, Bobby Lee (x2), Al Mobley, Aaron Wade, Ray Barnes, Jean Stock, Luc van Dam, Hans Stretz, Holley Mims, Garth Panter, Yoland Leveque, Gerhard Hecht (half credit)

Point Total: 29 + 15 + 23 + 12 – 9 = 70

*Note 1, for the sake of argument, considered Robinson prime up until his first retirement.

*Note 2, only counted the TKO loss to Maxim as a 2 pt deduction due to the extreme environmental hazard that would have otherwise resulted in a decision win for Robinson.
thats 1 fighter i can never argue with you about Ray Robinson is definetly the greatest of all time no doubt about it.great post.:thumbsup:
 

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Fantastic post. Great work Obama, I'm going to read it a section (post) at a time over the course of the next 2 days.:thumbsup:
 

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El Violento
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Good stuff. But I got an issue with the following

*Note 2, only counted the TKO loss to Maxim as a 2 pt deduction due to the extreme environmental hazard that would have otherwise resulted in a decision win for Robinson.

Like Maxim once said he did not have an air conditioner in his corner. He was fighting under the same conditions. It was a level playing field
 

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The Professor
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Discussion Starter #9
Good stuff. But I got an issue with the following

*Note 2, only counted the TKO loss to Maxim as a 2 pt deduction due to the extreme environmental hazard that would have otherwise resulted in a decision win for Robinson.

Like Maxim once said he did not have an air conditioner in his corner. He was fighting under the same conditions. It was a level playing field
Hence I counted it as a loss...just not a KO loss. I'd extend the same courtesy to Maxim if it happened to him. It's a level playing field loss, but it's not a level playing field TKO in the scheme of TKOs throughout history. For instance guys today would never be subjected to those kinds of conditions, so why penalize older fighters for having it harder?
 

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El Violento
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Hence I counted it as a loss...just not a KO loss. I'd extend the same courtesy to Maxim if it happened to him. It's a level playing field loss, but it's not a level playing field TKO in the scheme of TKOs throughout history. For instance guys today would never be subjected to those kinds of conditions, so why penalize older fighters for having it harder?
Good enough for me
 

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Can i ask posters due to the incerdibly large post from Obama not to quote the original post :)
 

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Spike Spiegel
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The amount of research that has gone into this post is nothing short of incredible. I have to give you major props Obama.

I think that this post as well as the Top 20 Greatest Heavyweights need to be stickied for all to see. Excellent stuff.
 

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Oh yeah and Obama, def impressive :) You truly are a boxing nerd :p Gj man

SRR isnt called the greatest for nothing. If you go by your score stystem by how large of a margin is he the best ever?
 

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The Professor
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Oh yeah and Obama, def impressive :) You truly are a boxing nerd :p Gj man

SRR isnt called the greatest for nothing. If you go by your score stystem by how large of a margin is he the best ever?
My scoring system doesn't always put people in the order I would. It's more of a guide than anything else. I haven't ran the FULL numbers on my p4p top 10...only Robinson. I would imagine Harry Greb and Willie Pep would have high scores.

Other guys like Sam Langford and Henry Armstrong would score significantly lower, but, the risk involved in their careers is greater, so that has to be factored in.
 

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Spike Spiegel
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My scoring system doesn't always put people in the order I would. It's more of a guide than anything else. I haven't ran the FULL numbers on my p4p top 10...only Robinson. I would imagine Harry Greb and Willie Pep would have high scores.

Other guys like Sam Langford and Henry Armstrong would score significantly lower, but, the risk involved in their careers is greater, so that has to be factored in.
The perfect example of this is Mayweather scoring a higher resume rating then Whitaker.. when in actual fact it's pretty clear that Whitaker has a better legacy. Not to mention the fact he was robbed blind TWICE.. once by Chavez and the other by Ramirez and has a questionable loss against De La Hoya. That's 2 A-level wins and one A- win right there.
 

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I have seen many ways of rating boxers and Obama's is one of the best. Not everyone well agree no matter how you try to rate them. I also made out several myself. Bill Gray wrote a book called "Boxing's Top 100," which rates all the Champions in 29 categories.

Here's some facts on Sugar Ray.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought 71 different boxers a total of 108 times that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another.

His overall record against them were:
87 Wins-(45 KO)-17 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)

That also means that he fought 92 bouts against boxers that were never rated and his record against them was:
86 Wins-(63 KO)-2 Losses-(0 KO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)

Robinson fought 61 boxers out of his 200 bouts that were rated in the top 10 when he fought them and his record was
45 Wins-(18 KO)-14 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-2 Draws

BUT in his 1st 41 bouts against them, his record was:
38 Wins-(15 KO)-2 Losses-1 Draw (His next bout was against Maxim.)

Here's a list of all the boxers that Robinson fought that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another and his record against them.

Abrams, Georgie 1-0
Angott, Sammy 3-0
Archer, Joey 0-1
Armstrong, Henry 1-0
Barnes, Ray 1-0
Basilio, Carmen 1-1
Basora, Jose 1-0-1 (1 KO)
Bell, O'Neill 1-0 (1 KO)
Bell, Tommy 2-0
Belloise, Steve 1-0 (1 KO
Berger, Maxie 1-0 (1 KO)
Burns, Charley 1-0 (1 KO)
Castellani, Rocky 1-0
Castiglione, Nick 1-0 (1 KO)
Costner, George 2-0 (2 KO)
Curcio, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Delannoit, Cyrille 1-0 (1 KO)
Dellicurti, Vic 3-0
Docusen, Bernard 1-0
Downes, Terry 0-1
Doyle, Jimmy 1-0 (1 KO)
Dupas, Ralph 1-0
*****, Bobby 1-0
Fullmer, Gene 1-2-1
Fusari, Charley 1-0
Gavilan, Kid 2-0
Ghnouly, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Giardello, Joey 0-1
Graziano, Rocky 1-0 (1 KO)
Guggino, Carl "Red" 1-0 (1 KO)
Harrington, Stan 0-2
Harris, Ossie 2-0
Hecht, Gerhard - NC
Hernandez, Art 0-0-1
Hernandez, Ferd 0-1
Hudson, Cecil 2-0(2 KO)
Jannazzo, Izzy 4-0 (2 KO)
Jones, Ralph Tiger 0-1
LaMotta, Jake 5-1 (1 KO)
Leahy, **** 0-1
Lee, Don 2-0
Lello, Pete 1-0 (1 KO)
Levine, Artie 1-0 (1 KO)
Martin, Georgie 1-0 (1 KO)
Maxim, Joey 0-1 (1 TKO-BY)
McDaniels, Jimmy 1-0(1 KO)
Mims, Holley 1-0
Motisi, Tony 1-0 (1 KO)
Moyer, Denny 1-1
Nettlow, Al 1-0 (1 KO)
Olson, Carl Bobo 4-0 (3 KO)
Pender, Paul 0-2
Quarles, Norment 1-0 (1 KO)
Rangel, Sheik 1-0 (1 KO)
Rindone, Joe 2-0 (2 KO)
Rubio, Norman 2-0 (1 KO)
Secreet, Sammy 1-0 (1 KO)
Servo, Marty 2-0
Shapiro, Maxie 1-0 (1 KO)
Stretz, Hans 1-0 (1 KO)
Taylor, Chuck 1-0(1 KO)
Turner, Earl 1-0 (1 KO)
Turpin, Randy 1-1 (1 KO)
Tygh, Jimmy 2-0 (2 KO)
Villemain, Robert 2-0 (1 KO)
Wade, Aaron Tiger 1-0 (1 KO)
Wallace, Frankie 1-0 (1 KO)
Wilson, Jackie (L.A.) 2-0 (1 KO)
Zannelli, Ralph 1-0
Zengaras, George 1-0
Zivic, Fritzie 2-0 (1 KO)

87 Wins-(45 KO)-17 Losses-(1 TKO-BY)-3 Draws -(1 NC)
 

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The Professor
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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Castiglione, Nick 1-0 (1 KO)
Ghnouly, Joe 1-0 (1 KO)
Guggino, Carl "Red" 1-0 (1 KO)
Quarles, Norment 1-0 (1 KO)
Secreet, Sammy 1-0 (1 KO)
Taylor, Chuck 1-0(1 KO)
Tygh, Jimmy 2-0 (2 KO)
Wallace, Frankie 1-0 (1 KO)
Zengaras, George 1-0
These are wins that I don't consider notable. Also, you must have access to monthly ratings from this time period (I envy you), because most of these guys don't appear in the annual ratings.

I'm going through these names now to see if I should add any to his notable wins.

Edit: After looking it over I think the only one worth considering for a notable win is Chuck Taylor.
 

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I don't know if this will come out right BUT here goes:

BOLD means rated at the time they fought Robinson:

Boxer Weight 1st-Rated Last-Rated Months-Rated Best-Rating
Abrams, Georgie 160 1938/08 1947/10 055 01*
Angott, Sammy 135-147 1938/07 1946/04 081 00
Archer, Joey 160 1963/03 1967/05 051 01*
Armstrong, Henry 126-147 1935/01 1945/06 123 00
Barnes, Ray 160 1950/08 1953/02 018 04*
Basilio, Carmen 147-160 1953/06 1962/02 087 00
Basora, Jose 160 1942/09 1949/08 048 02*
Bell, O'Neill 160 1948/01 1948/05 002 07*
Bell, Tommy 147 1944/01 1949/02 051 01*
Belloise, Steve 147-160 1940/06 1950/06 096 01*
Berger, Maxie 135-147 1938/05 1944/02 033 05*
Burns, Charley 135 1935/07 1935/11 005 05*
Castellani, Rocky 160 1949/02 1957/02 059 01*
Castiglione, Nick 135 1941/11 1943/02 005 08*
Costner, George 147 1945/11 1951/02 032 01*
Curcio, Joe 147 1946/09 1946/09 001 10*
Delannoit, Cyrille 160 1948/08 1949/06 011 02*
Dellicurti, Vic 147-160 1939/12 1945/09 022 06*
Docusen, Bernard 135-147 1945/07 1950/10 050 01*
Downes, Terry 160-175 1960/09 1966/03 052 00
Doyle, Jimmy 147 1945/06 1947/08 019 02*
Dupas, Ralph 135-147 1953/09 1965/03 136 01*
*****, Bobby 147-160 1949/10 1956/02 033 01*
Fullmer, Gene 160 1955/08 1964/07 107 00
Fusari, Charley 147 1946/11 1952/03 049 02*
Gavilan, Kid 147-160 1948/01 1958/09 106 00
Ghnouly, Joe 130-135 1931/11 1936/04 031 05*
Giardello, Joey 160-175 1952/10 1968/03 152 00
Graziano, Rocky 147-160 1944/09 1952/10 083 00
Guggino, Carl "Red" 135 1937/02 1938/03 006 06*
Harrington, Stan 147-160 1963/09 1967/06 035 02*
Harris, Ossie 160 1945/09 1945/10 002 10*
Hecht, Gerhard 175 1953/03 1958/03 061 01*
Hernandez, Art 160 1965/11 1966/03 002 10*
Hernandez, Ferd 160 1966/12 1968/10 023 02*
Hudson, Cecil 147-160 1943/02 1947/12 006 02*
Jannazzo, Izzy 147-160 1935/03 1944/08 066 01*
Jones, Ralph Tiger 160 1953/02 1960/08 047 03*
LaMotta, Jake 160-175 1942/07 1953/02 121 00
Leahy, **** 160 1965/01 1965/03 003 10*
Lee, Don 160 1984/04 1986/12 032 04*
Lello, Pete 135 1939/02 1941/04 016 03*
Levine, Artie 160-175 1946/05 1949/04 012 06*
Martin, Georgie 147 1941/01 1944/02 006 10*
Maxim, Joey* 175-200+ 1941/02 1956/09 148* 00
McDaniels, Jimmy 147 1943/06 1945/08 019 03*
Mims, Holley 160 1952/02 1960/06 057 02*
Motisi, Tony 147 1942/05 194304 009 06*
Moyer, Denny 147-160 1959/04 1972/06 099 01*
Nettlow, Al 135-147 1939/04 1943/02 006 08*
Olson, Carl Bobo 160-175 1949/08 1967/05 139 00
Pender, Paul 160 1959/06 1964/02 050 00
Quarles, Norment 135 1937/01 1939/02 012 08*
Rangel, Sheik 147 1943/02 1944/02 009 05*
Rindone, Joe 160-175 1951/06 1954/02 004 07*
Rubio, Norman 147 1941/09 1944/02 010 09*
Secreet, Sammy 147 1942/01 1946/08 006 06*
Servo, Marty 147 1942/02 1947/02 022 00
Shapiro, Maxie 126-135 1940/07 1945/02 018 03*
Stretz, Hans 160-175 1954/02 1958/02 019 02*
Taylor, Chuck 147 1946/06 1946/11 004 07*
Turner, Earl 147 1942/11 1948/09 011 04*
Turpin, Randy 160-175 1950/03 1958/02 065 00
Tygh, Jimmy 135 1939/02 1940/09 002 09*
Villemain, Robert 147-175 1947/09 1953/02 046 02*
Wade, Aaron Tiger 160 1945/12 1946/02 003 07*
Wallace, Frankie 126-135 1932/01 1938/02 020 02*
Wilson, Jackie (L.A.) 135-147 1940/01 1947/04 032 02*
Zannelli, Ralph 147-160 1938/02 1953/02 018 03*
Zengaras, George 135 1937/09 1939/11 007 08*
Zivic, Fritzie 147 1936/08 1945/08 095 00
 
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