hhascup said:
I hate to say this because I know people here will not like it, BUT Holmes would out box Rocky. He would be too big and his jab would cut the smaller Rocky up.
Rocky had a lot of guts but he wouldn't be able to take that jab for long.
Holmes would win by a TKO in the middle to late rounds.
Hey, come on, it's okay by me if you don't like my most favorite fighter Rocky Marciano, or if you think he really wasn't all that great really and that he had fought a bunch of old men.
While I may disagree, I don't take stuff such as that personal. (smiling)
About what you said about Marciano would be beat by Larry Holmes because he you think he could out box Marciano.
I'm an ex-fighter, and this I do know that the basic strategy has always been that you ... box the puncher ... and you punch the boxer. Sometimes the boxer will win, and some times the puncher will win.
It depends not so much on things like power and speed .. yet those things are important. But strategy, it's a mind game ... you out think your opponent.
But in a fantasy fight like this Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes ... no way to judge a fantasy fight!
Through maybe fun to speculate.
Based on what you said, you think also because Marciano is shorter and smaller than Holmes and because Holmes had a good left jab ... and a longer reach I guess than Marciano that Holmes would cut Marciano up bad and I guess you may think Holmes would win by a TKO based on all you said.
That's possible and even more so if you went by the rules in how they've changed today opposed to how boxing was in Marciano's day.
Remember, Marciano's fights were thrilling and filled with drama and danger in his day that rarely applies to contests today in boxing.
Remember, Marciano never clinched and rarely stopped punching. Had his fights occured today some of those bloody fights that brought forth the ultimate of Marciano's spirit and determination would have been stopped long before the final blows were thrown to have gotten the knockout.
But remember what Marciano's strategy was in fighting Joe Louis who was a bigger man than Marciano ... and was 3 inches taller and had as best I remember a 11 inch longer reach ... and carried near 30 pounds more weight than Marciano going into that fight!
And Louis could boxer, and he also has the punch too. They didn't call him "The Big Brown Bomber" for nothing.
Louis also had a great and very effective left jab!
Do you think it was just because Marciano was in great shape and a very determined fighter and had the punch that he beat Joe Louis and won by getting the knockout?
I think many fans would say it was much for that reason, only it was for that reason alone. It was much for reasons of strategy, the way Marciano fought that fight that he beat Joe Louis.
And if it hadn't been for Marciano's strategy, he no doubt would have lost the fight with Louis.
I have a tape of the whole fight ... round per round ... and have watched it many times.
Notice Marciano's strategy, in that fight!
He did not stand up straight with Louis and box him if he had he was have lost the fight!
He stalked Louis, before that fight it was always Louis who was the stalker ... and Marciano ... worked at keeping his left foot close to him ... and bulled Marciano and worked methodically to keep cutting the ring off on him and backing Louis up, and fighting on the instead close range ... the left of Louis could do not good there. And his longer reach than Marciano could do no good there either. And actually in having a shorter reach gave Marciano an advantage in punching power over Louis there too.
Notice in that fight just prior to Marciano got the knockout that Louis was getting real tired and the working to the body and punching to the body by Marciano had tired Louis and when a fighter gets tired ... his hands go down ... Marciano was throwing some good combitnation punches and each of them that landed to the head were solid and Louis's legs gave off ... and he went down and Marciano got the knockout.
What's the first thing that will usually go out on a fighter in the ring in a fight when he gets tired and hurt?
It's his legs ... if he's strong willed. His mind tells his body to get up, only his legs are give out and won't let me.
In the heavyweight division ... the size of a guy doesn't really mean any thing.
Being smaller than your opponent or a little smaller than your opponent in of the same weight division in height and weight doesn't nescessarily mean you would more easily get your eyes cut eyes easily.
Your a historian, I'm an ex-fighter, and I'll just share this with you based on my experience in having been there and for a long time.
If a guy, has a thin neck, he can't take a punch.
Yet it's kind of a fair trade because a guy with a thick neck ... cuts more easily than a guy with with a thin neck.
What you fail to see about Marciano ... is just how great a fight trainer that little Charley Goldman was who trained and developed and cultivated Marciano into the great fighter that he was. You fail to see how clever and smart a fighter Rocky Marciano was. You fail to see the skill he had.
You fail to see that he was also a good defense fighter too. And that he wasn't as easy a target as he appeared which Ali ... also found out in the Marciano-Ali computer fight.
If two fans watch a fight for example, and one of those fans in a very experienced ex-fighter .... I can tell you this he is going to see things happening in a fight ... that the average fan, or even a historian that isn't a very experienced ex-fighter is going to see.
Not saying I'm a know it all because I'm don't. There is so much to know.
As for whether or not Marciano would have beaten Larry Holmes ... would depend on Marciano's strategy in the fight!
What strategy would Marciano need to have to beat Holmes?
What strategy would Holmes need to have to beat Marciano?
Every fighter has a weakness!
What was Marciano's weakness ?
What was Holmes weakness?
Think about it!
I say, size really doesn't mean all that much.
I say, also say it's not all about power and speed.
It's strategy, it focus, it's skill.
If you ask me if Marciano could beat Larry Holmes?
I would be lieing, if I believed that Holmes could beat Marciano. Marciano was relentless He'd bang your body, arms, head and all over ... and he could hurt you no matter where he hit you. He'd bull an opponent and keep throwing punches. He never backed off, he always was going forward and cutting the ring off on his opponent and kept throwing punches and combination punches. He was the best; not because of the style but because he had the heart and courage of a lion, that when hurt becomes even all the more dangerous.
Marciano would be on his opponent like a pit bull, he was like a human pit bull with gloves on, he would fight to the death. He never held back, he refused to lose.
How could a guy put togather an offense of his own if he had to keep block punches.
In boxing the basic strategy always has been to win a fight is for the boxer to box the puncher, and for the puncher to punch the boxer.
If Marciano were to stand up straight and to try to out box Holmes he would lose. And would go the way you think. But that is not the way, Marciano would have fought Holmes. That would be the wrong strategy for him to fight Holmes.
Marciano was much smarter than you think.
JC
