Boxing Forum - Boxing Discussion Forums banner

1 - 20 of 984 Posts

·
The Maul Brawling Slugger
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
OKAY! I know that we all create a lot of threads about who would win a fight out of so and so vs. so and so... who's the better boxer... who's faster... who's fitter... so instead of just making a bunch of threads... I was thinking we could make a game of it! This game has been done on numerous forums across the Internet and I've decided to do it like this. I will explain it for you:D

OKAY!

A poster states The Weight Division... for example...

Welterweight

And then they state the two fighters... for example...

Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard

The poster in reply to that states who he (or she) thinks would win and WHY!

He (or she... are there any girls on the Boxing Forums?) then states his or her own weight division and match... and the next poster gives his/her answer and why... and so on and so forth! It continues on and on over a continues loop!

NOTE: When deciding who would win the fight... think of both fighters as being in THEIR PRIME... as both being the best that they have ever been in the careers!

If done right... this can be a lot of fun... okay... here it goes... we will start!!!

WELTERWEIGHT

Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Sugar Ray Leonard
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,662 Posts
Sugar Ray Robinson by very close 15 round decision. Because Sugar Ray Robinson had snap to his punches, he was fast, relatively strong, he was agile, and slick too. Ray Leonard was one of the fastest boxers ever, he was agile, very slick, and had a little bit of snap to his punches. I would say Ray Leonard would win the first and the begining of the middle rounds, but Sugar Ray Robinson would soon catch on, and start puting some leather on Sugar Ray Leonard. I would have Ray Leonard winnning 6 rounds, and Robinson winning 9.

Heavyweight

Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
Just to let you know, sometime next year there going to have computer boxing matches between several of the greats.

I was with contender trainer Tommy Gallahger and he showed me a film of Tyson against Marciano. He stated that they are going to match many of the greats against each other and it will be shown on televison for all to see.

Its suppose to be just like a real boxing match with the crowd, announcers, etc.

I can't wait to see the out come.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
hhascup said:
Just to let you know, sometime next year there going to have computer boxing matches between several of the greats.

I was with contender trainer Tommy Gallahger and he showed me a film of Tyson against Marciano. He stated that they are going to match many of the greats against each other and it will be shown on televison for all to see.

Its suppose to be just like a real boxing match with the crowd, announcers, etc.

I can't wait to see the out come.

I have the Ali vs Marciano computer fight, with alternate ending. Its okay kinda cool but after a while it gets kinda repetitive.
 

·
The Maul Brawling Slugger
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
bill1234 said:
Sugar Ray Robinson by very close 15 round decision. Because Sugar Ray Robinson had snap to his punches, he was fast, relatively strong, he was agile, and slick too. Ray Leonard was one of the fastest boxers ever, he was agile, very slick, and had a little bit of snap to his punches. I would say Ray Leonard would win the first and the begining of the middle rounds, but Sugar Ray Robinson would soon catch on, and start puting some leather on Sugar Ray Leonard. I would have Ray Leonard winnning 6 rounds, and Robinson winning 9.

Heavyweight

Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes
Could the next poster please continue The "You Have To Pick One" Boxing Game from here? Thank You!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
White Tyson said:
Could the next poster please continue The "You Have To Pick One" Boxing Game from here? Thank You!
I hate to say this because I know people here will not like it, BUT Holmes would out box Rocky. He would be too big and his jab would cut the smaller Rocky up.

Rocky had a lot of guts but he wouldn't be able to take that jab for long.

Holmes would win by a TKO in the middle to late rounds.

How about Louis against Dempsey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
The Auctioneer said:
Louis would KO dempsey by the 10 round or so ,Joe had a way of figureing guys out.


Joe Louis Vs. Muhammad Ali
Back when I was a kid, the boxing people use to pick Dempsey over Louis. As time went by people voted for Louis.

The only thing I have against Dempsey, is that he never fought a Black fighter.

Here we go again, this would be a match between the two Greatest Heavyweight Champions of all times. Louis had troulbe with boxers like Conn, Farr and Walcott, so I again would have to pick Ali.


Joe Louis Vs.Marciano
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,662 Posts
Marciano by KO in round 13-15. He could just out punch Louis. Although it would be a great fight.:rolleyes:

Holmes vs Louis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
bill1234 said:
Marciano by KO in round 13-15. He could just out punch Louis. Although it would be a great fight.:rolleyes:

Holmes vs Louis
That's one of the very few times anyone picked Rocky over Louis in their primes.

I would have picked Louis
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,662 Posts
I could care less if its 100 against me. I still think Marciano could take Louis. If Tony "two ton" Galento could knockdown Louis, I certainly think Marciano could KO him.

Holmes vs Louis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
bill1234 said:
I could care less if its 100 against me. I still think Marciano could take Louis. If Tony "two ton" Galento could knockdown Louis, I certainly think Marciano could KO him.

Holmes vs Louis
Two Ton Tony did knock him down, BUT Louis got up and won every second of the bout before and after the knock down.

By the way, Fleischer rated Galento's left hook the 2nd best of all times, (Ketchel was #1).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
hhascup said:
I hate to say this because I know people here will not like it, BUT Holmes would out box Rocky. He would be too big and his jab would cut the smaller Rocky up.

Rocky had a lot of guts but he wouldn't be able to take that jab for long.

Holmes would win by a TKO in the middle to late rounds.
Hey, come on, it's okay by me if you don't like my most favorite fighter Rocky Marciano, or if you think he really wasn't all that great really and that he had fought a bunch of old men.

While I may disagree, I don't take stuff such as that personal. (smiling)

About what you said about Marciano would be beat by Larry Holmes because he you think he could out box Marciano.

I'm an ex-fighter, and this I do know that the basic strategy has always been that you ... box the puncher ... and you punch the boxer. Sometimes the boxer will win, and some times the puncher will win.

It depends not so much on things like power and speed .. yet those things are important. But strategy, it's a mind game ... you out think your opponent.

But in a fantasy fight like this Rocky Marciano vs Larry Holmes ... no way to judge a fantasy fight!

Through maybe fun to speculate.

Based on what you said, you think also because Marciano is shorter and smaller than Holmes and because Holmes had a good left jab ... and a longer reach I guess than Marciano that Holmes would cut Marciano up bad and I guess you may think Holmes would win by a TKO based on all you said.

That's possible and even more so if you went by the rules in how they've changed today opposed to how boxing was in Marciano's day.

Remember, Marciano's fights were thrilling and filled with drama and danger in his day that rarely applies to contests today in boxing.

Remember, Marciano never clinched and rarely stopped punching. Had his fights occured today some of those bloody fights that brought forth the ultimate of Marciano's spirit and determination would have been stopped long before the final blows were thrown to have gotten the knockout.

But remember what Marciano's strategy was in fighting Joe Louis who was a bigger man than Marciano ... and was 3 inches taller and had as best I remember a 11 inch longer reach ... and carried near 30 pounds more weight than Marciano going into that fight!

And Louis could boxer, and he also has the punch too. They didn't call him "The Big Brown Bomber" for nothing.

Louis also had a great and very effective left jab!

Do you think it was just because Marciano was in great shape and a very determined fighter and had the punch that he beat Joe Louis and won by getting the knockout?

I think many fans would say it was much for that reason, only it was for that reason alone. It was much for reasons of strategy, the way Marciano fought that fight that he beat Joe Louis.

And if it hadn't been for Marciano's strategy, he no doubt would have lost the fight with Louis.

I have a tape of the whole fight ... round per round ... and have watched it many times.

Notice Marciano's strategy, in that fight!

He did not stand up straight with Louis and box him if he had he was have lost the fight!

He stalked Louis, before that fight it was always Louis who was the stalker ... and Marciano ... worked at keeping his left foot close to him ... and bulled Marciano and worked methodically to keep cutting the ring off on him and backing Louis up, and fighting on the instead close range ... the left of Louis could do not good there. And his longer reach than Marciano could do no good there either. And actually in having a shorter reach gave Marciano an advantage in punching power over Louis there too.

Notice in that fight just prior to Marciano got the knockout that Louis was getting real tired and the working to the body and punching to the body by Marciano had tired Louis and when a fighter gets tired ... his hands go down ... Marciano was throwing some good combitnation punches and each of them that landed to the head were solid and Louis's legs gave off ... and he went down and Marciano got the knockout.

What's the first thing that will usually go out on a fighter in the ring in a fight when he gets tired and hurt?

It's his legs ... if he's strong willed. His mind tells his body to get up, only his legs are give out and won't let me.

In the heavyweight division ... the size of a guy doesn't really mean any thing.

Being smaller than your opponent or a little smaller than your opponent in of the same weight division in height and weight doesn't nescessarily mean you would more easily get your eyes cut eyes easily.

Your a historian, I'm an ex-fighter, and I'll just share this with you based on my experience in having been there and for a long time.

If a guy, has a thin neck, he can't take a punch.

Yet it's kind of a fair trade because a guy with a thick neck ... cuts more easily than a guy with with a thin neck.

What you fail to see about Marciano ... is just how great a fight trainer that little Charley Goldman was who trained and developed and cultivated Marciano into the great fighter that he was. You fail to see how clever and smart a fighter Rocky Marciano was. You fail to see the skill he had.

You fail to see that he was also a good defense fighter too. And that he wasn't as easy a target as he appeared which Ali ... also found out in the Marciano-Ali computer fight.

If two fans watch a fight for example, and one of those fans in a very experienced ex-fighter .... I can tell you this he is going to see things happening in a fight ... that the average fan, or even a historian that isn't a very experienced ex-fighter is going to see.

Not saying I'm a know it all because I'm don't. There is so much to know.

As for whether or not Marciano would have beaten Larry Holmes ... would depend on Marciano's strategy in the fight!

What strategy would Marciano need to have to beat Holmes?

What strategy would Holmes need to have to beat Marciano?

Every fighter has a weakness!

What was Marciano's weakness ?

What was Holmes weakness?

Think about it!

I say, size really doesn't mean all that much.

I say, also say it's not all about power and speed.

It's strategy, it focus, it's skill.

If you ask me if Marciano could beat Larry Holmes?

I would be lieing, if I believed that Holmes could beat Marciano. Marciano was relentless He'd bang your body, arms, head and all over ... and he could hurt you no matter where he hit you. He'd bull an opponent and keep throwing punches. He never backed off, he always was going forward and cutting the ring off on his opponent and kept throwing punches and combination punches. He was the best; not because of the style but because he had the heart and courage of a lion, that when hurt becomes even all the more dangerous.

Marciano would be on his opponent like a pit bull, he was like a human pit bull with gloves on, he would fight to the death. He never held back, he refused to lose.

How could a guy put togather an offense of his own if he had to keep block punches.

In boxing the basic strategy always has been to win a fight is for the boxer to box the puncher, and for the puncher to punch the boxer.

If Marciano were to stand up straight and to try to out box Holmes he would lose. And would go the way you think. But that is not the way, Marciano would have fought Holmes. That would be the wrong strategy for him to fight Holmes.

Marciano was much smarter than you think.

JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I agree with a lot of what your saying, BUT Louis was way past his prime and Holmes would have been much too big & too fast for Rocky.

If Rocky had such a Great punch, and I am not saying that he didn't, why did it take so long to KO guys like Moore, Walcott, Charles, Cockell & LaStarza. How long do you think it would take Louis in his prime, Foreman, Frazier and Liston to do the same.

I have to rate Rocky in my top 10, just because of his record. The reason I don't rate him up there with Ali and Louis is that he didn't box the same competition as they did.

I have studied all the fight films on all the Greats and along my research is how I come up with my ratings.

Very few people would agree on a top 10, thats what makes this sport so interesting.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,662 Posts
I would say it would be close, but in the end Holmes would take him. I asked this because they are my 2 favorite fighters ever. I know Holmes. I am more of a historian on heavyweights, but I also spar/work out at Larry's gym too. So I have sort of both looks at it. I don't have much experience in the ring yet, but I can tell when a guy is hurt, when he should duck, the strategy he needs to win, and how powerful they, punch, also how badly the other guy is hurting after each punch. I think Holmes would take Rocky for the sole reason of his jab. Holmes's jab was the best ever. It hurt you, kept you off balance, kept you away, and it was fast/powerful. It cut you up a lot. Also Holmes took Shavers best shots, and the most powerful right Shavers has ever thrown in the ring landed flush the side of Holmes jaw, and Holmes was up on 5 and was 90% recovered by the end of the round. On the other hand Marciano was more relentless and put on more pressure then Shavers too. I say Holmes by 15 round decision.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,662 Posts
hhascup said:
Two Ton Tony did knock him down, BUT Louis got up and won every second of the bout before and after the knock down.

By the way, Fleischer rated Galento's left hook the 2nd best of all times, (Ketchel was #1).
Screw Fleisher's ratings (pardon my language). I disagree with that completely. Galento's left hook wasn't as good or powerful as Fraziers, Cooney's, Foster's, Tyson's, Marciano's, or Louis's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
bill1234 said:
Screw Fleisher's ratings (pardon my language). I disagree with that completely. Galento's left hook wasn't as good or powerful as Fraziers, Cooney's, Foster's, Tyson's, Marciano's, or Louis's.
First of all Fleischer died in 1972, so he really didn't see fighter like Foster, Tyson or Cooney.

Fleischer always took the side of the old timers, BUT he was the most noted boxing historian of his day.

By the way, I don't agree with most of his rating either.
 

·
The Maul Brawling Slugger
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Can we just continue this like a game please? No overly long dicussion and arguments? Just make a decision and move on! I'll start us off again...

Middleweight

Bernard Hopkins vs. Jake LaMotta
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
White Tyson said:
Can we just continue this like a game please? No overly long dicussion and arguments? Just make a decision and move on! I'll start us off again...

Middleweight

Bernard Hopkins vs. Jake LaMotta
Hopkins would find a way to win. Hopkins by a UDec.

By the way, I was honored in 2005 along with Hopkins. They had a poster of both of us and Gatti, McGirt and Don King.

Hopkins was a real gentleman and when I gave my speech, he reached out to me and stated that it was Great. It meant a lot to me to hear him say that.
 
1 - 20 of 984 Posts
Top