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Here's the criteria and category of fighters....


1. Champion
2. Contender
3. Fringe Contender
4. Journeyman
5. Trial Horse
6. Ham-n-Egger


A Journeyman is a fighter that can beat a champion on any given night due to his skill and heart; but generally isn't in the best of shape because of fighting too frequently or not being able to focus solely on boxing because of his regular job and need to pay the bills. Most are "Journeymen" due to bad breaks and bad management; but not due to lack of ability. These are the guys that are the preverbial "jack of all trades but masters of none"....they are just a notch below; but on any given night, can win it all. They fight the best and most of the time they lose....they are the fighters that will prove if your young prospect is the real thing or not because they will either make him or break him. Here's to the Journeymen....the backbone of boxing.

(Don't confuse a one-time contender who has slipped into journeyman status with a true journeyman.)....example: Ross Purity was a journeyman as was Oliver McCall before he won the title and Bert Cooper.

So....


Who are the Top Ten best p4p Journeymen ever?
Who are the Top Ten best heavyweight Journeymen ever?
 

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The Maul Brawling Slugger
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Boxing said:
Here's the criteria and category of fighters....


1. Champion
2. Contender
3. Fringe Contender
4. Journeyman
5. Trial Horse
6. Ham-n-Egger


A Journeyman is a fighter that can beat a champion on any given night due to his skill and heart; but generally isn't in the best of shape because of fighting too frequently or not being able to focus solely on boxing because of his regular job and need to pay the bills. Most are "Journeymen" due to bad breaks and bad management; but not due to lack of ability. These are the guys that are the preverbial "jack of all trades but masters of none"....they are just a notch below; but on any given night, can win it all. They fight the best and most of the time they lose....they are the fighters that will prove if your young prospect is the real thing or not because they will either make him or break him. Here's to the Journeymen....the backbone of boxing.

(Don't confuse a one-time contender who has slipped into journeyman status with a true journeyman.)....example: Ross Purity was a journeyman as was Oliver McCall before he won the title and Bert Cooper.

So....


Who are the Top Ten best p4p Journeymen ever?
Who are the Top Ten best heavyweight Journeymen ever?
So would Eric "Butterbean" Esch be a journeyman? His an obese bastard but can still kick the asses of a lot of 'much fitter, quicker and in better shape' Pro Boxers?

NOTE: I'll probably be a "JOURNEYMAN!!!"
 

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White Tyson said:
So would Eric "Butterbean" Esch be a journeyman? His an obese bastard but can still kick the asses of a lot of 'much fitter, quicker and in better shape' Pro Boxers?

NOTE: I'll probably be a "JOURNEYMAN!!!"
What you mean Butterbean can beat contenders? He got his record from beating guys with losing/500 records. When Holmes was 52 he beat Butterbean who was in his early 30's
 

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The Maul Brawling Slugger
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bill1234 said:
What you mean Butterbean can beat contenders? He got his record from beating guys with losing/500 records. When Holmes was 52 he beat Butterbean who was in his early 30's
Oh yeah... I'm so stupid
 

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Greatest Journymen ?? Wow that is a tough one, because there has been so many

Micky Ward -- Great Fighter, he did have a lot of ups and downs

Emanuel Augustus -- Will fight at the drop of a hat, has upset sevrial contenders, but has also lost some fights that he should not of

Ross Purity -- Has banged with the best of them.


Chuck Wepner -- I do not know if he should be condsidered an all time great, but he is worth mentioning. He is known mainly for knocking Ali down with a shot, and raising his hands shouting to his corner "Start the car and go to the bank because we are rich" and his trainer stated back " You better turn around, because he is getting up and he looks pissed" He is also the insperation for the Rocky Movies

Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha -- One hell of a chin, could box, but could never beat the best. He did get a un deserved shot at the title agisnt Lewis where he was knocked out of the ring in the second round. He did how ever fight well.

Corey Sanders -- Before he beat Wlad Klitchko he was considered nothing more than a journey man, hard hitter, good hand speed, but very poor mng-ment.


There is too many to name, and none of these are in a particular order. I mainly mentioned Heavy weights, there are a lot of smaller fighters who were great Journy men as well.
 

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mayweathers next fight is against a journeyman who got lucky against zab and gatti. baldomir what a joke this guy is.:mad:
 

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This is an interesting topic. I submit that fighter classifications are often as misused in boxing as is the line "I love you" is in the real world.

An example of misuse, IMO, would be the distinction of "journeyman", as typically applied to James "Buster" Douglas, by the fans and media alike in his lead-up to the Mike Tyson match. A cursory review of the top ten rankings of that period and the three years previous, clearly shows James as being firmly ensconsed in the second-half of the top ten.

To me, that makes him a "contender". I feel that the term "journeyman" is a far better fit for a capable fighter that wins as much as he may lose, against respectable comp in or around the top thirty or latter-half of the fringe or top twenty.
 

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tommygunn said:
mayweathers next fight is against a journeyman who got lucky against zab and gatti. baldomir what a joke this guy is.:mad:

I agree, he had a 4 leaf clover in his pocket agisnt Judah, and Gatti, he is just finial washed up. A prime Gatti would of boxed the snot of of him.
 

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Dr. Wisdom said:
I agree, he had a 4 leaf clover in his pocket agisnt Judah, and Gatti, he is just finial washed up. A prime Gatti would of boxed the snot of of him.
i had that bad version of gatti who should not have been near the 147 division up by 1 round when he was stopped it just shows how bad baldomir is.

god only knows what was up with zab but every once ahwile he turns in bad performances like this spinxs also springs to mind zab should never have lost to him.
 

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Dr. Wisdom said:
Greatest Journymen ?? Wow that is a tough one, because there has been so many

Micky Ward -- Great Fighter, he did have a lot of ups and downs

Emanuel Augustus -- Will fight at the drop of a hat, has upset sevrial contenders, but has also lost some fights that he should not of

Ross Purity -- Has banged with the best of them.


Chuck Wepner -- I do not know if he should be condsidered an all time great, but he is worth mentioning. He is known mainly for knocking Ali down with a shot, and raising his hands shouting to his corner "Start the car and go to the bank because we are rich" and his trainer stated back " You better turn around, because he is getting up and he looks pissed" He is also the insperation for the Rocky Movies

Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha -- One hell of a chin, could box, but could never beat the best. He did get a un deserved shot at the title agisnt Lewis where he was knocked out of the ring in the second round. He did how ever fight well.

Corey Sanders -- Before he beat Wlad Klitchko he was considered nothing more than a journey man, hard hitter, good hand speed, but very poor mng-ment.


There is too many to name, and none of these are in a particular order. I mainly mentioned Heavy weights, there are a lot of smaller fighters who were great Journy men as well.
Thats right, I forgot about Wepner. You had to go threw him to become a contender.
 

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pbf369 said:
Emanuel Augustus is got be one of the greatest j-men ever no doubt
I like Augustus, he is one of the greatest J-man. Those who have ever seen him fight, has to enjoy it. He gives a great show, fights hard, and can dance very well in the ring (literly) I am still waiting for him to pull of a windmill inside the ring, or a head spin.
 

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The Maul Brawling Slugger
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Dr. Wisdom said:
I like Augustus, he is one of the greatest J-man. Those who have ever seen him fight, has to enjoy it. He gives a great show, fights hard, and can dance very well in the ring (literly) I am still waiting for him to pull of a windmill inside the ring, or a head spin.
You say good Things!
 

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I do not know if you would call them a fringe contenders or a journeyman,

but Terrible Terry Norris is worth mentioning, and what abuot Angel Manfredy ??
 

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Journeyman by their very nature are anonomous,So once they become "known" then they have lost some of that allure.I am at the club level scene all the time. I have seen a lot of journeyman.Usually they are tough and you have to work hard to get them "out".,Here they are brought in to give some guys expierence on going the distance in 6 and 8 rounders.Most jm's have terrible records that doesn't reflect their talents and skill. The other sad thing is that most have lost very close dec. to the home town guy.So their records are lopsided.They are essential to this business......
 

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Reading some of these replies, it would seem as though there are no champions, contenders, up and comers, or trial horses.

Just journeymen.
 

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Hope this first post isn't taken out of context. J-men are made from other combinations, also. Hometown crowds and referees, promotors with agendas, personal problems outside the ring, and incompetent trainers and managers have relegated some mighty good talent out of the mainstream to the top, and sometimes into obscurity.
 
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