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Top Ten Journeymen.....know what a Journeyman is?

12K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  daveDaboxingfan 
#1 ·
Here's the criteria and category of fighters....


1. Champion
2. Contender
3. Fringe Contender
4. Journeyman
5. Trial Horse
6. Ham-n-Egger


A Journeyman is a fighter that can beat a champion on any given night due to his skill and heart; but generally isn't in the best of shape because of fighting too frequently or not being able to focus solely on boxing because of his regular job and need to pay the bills. Most are "Journeymen" due to bad breaks and bad management; but not due to lack of ability. These are the guys that are the preverbial "jack of all trades but masters of none"....they are just a notch below; but on any given night, can win it all. They fight the best and most of the time they lose....they are the fighters that will prove if your young prospect is the real thing or not because they will either make him or break him. Here's to the Journeymen....the backbone of boxing.

(Don't confuse a one-time contender who has slipped into journeyman status with a true journeyman.)....example: Ross Purity was a journeyman as was Oliver McCall before he won the title and Bert Cooper.

So....


Who are the Top Ten best p4p Journeymen ever?
Who are the Top Ten best heavyweight Journeymen ever?
 
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#2 ·
Boxing said:
Here's the criteria and category of fighters....


1. Champion
2. Contender
3. Fringe Contender
4. Journeyman
5. Trial Horse
6. Ham-n-Egger


A Journeyman is a fighter that can beat a champion on any given night due to his skill and heart; but generally isn't in the best of shape because of fighting too frequently or not being able to focus solely on boxing because of his regular job and need to pay the bills. Most are "Journeymen" due to bad breaks and bad management; but not due to lack of ability. These are the guys that are the preverbial "jack of all trades but masters of none"....they are just a notch below; but on any given night, can win it all. They fight the best and most of the time they lose....they are the fighters that will prove if your young prospect is the real thing or not because they will either make him or break him. Here's to the Journeymen....the backbone of boxing.

(Don't confuse a one-time contender who has slipped into journeyman status with a true journeyman.)....example: Ross Purity was a journeyman as was Oliver McCall before he won the title and Bert Cooper.

So....


Who are the Top Ten best p4p Journeymen ever?
Who are the Top Ten best heavyweight Journeymen ever?
So would Eric "Butterbean" Esch be a journeyman? His an obese bastard but can still kick the asses of a lot of 'much fitter, quicker and in better shape' Pro Boxers?

NOTE: I'll probably be a "JOURNEYMAN!!!"
 
#3 ·
White Tyson said:
So would Eric "Butterbean" Esch be a journeyman? His an obese bastard but can still kick the asses of a lot of 'much fitter, quicker and in better shape' Pro Boxers?

NOTE: I'll probably be a "JOURNEYMAN!!!"
What you mean Butterbean can beat contenders? He got his record from beating guys with losing/500 records. When Holmes was 52 he beat Butterbean who was in his early 30's
 
#4 ·
bill1234 said:
What you mean Butterbean can beat contenders? He got his record from beating guys with losing/500 records. When Holmes was 52 he beat Butterbean who was in his early 30's
Oh yeah... I'm so stupid
 
#5 ·
Greatest Journymen ?? Wow that is a tough one, because there has been so many

Micky Ward -- Great Fighter, he did have a lot of ups and downs

Emanuel Augustus -- Will fight at the drop of a hat, has upset sevrial contenders, but has also lost some fights that he should not of

Ross Purity -- Has banged with the best of them.


Chuck Wepner -- I do not know if he should be condsidered an all time great, but he is worth mentioning. He is known mainly for knocking Ali down with a shot, and raising his hands shouting to his corner "Start the car and go to the bank because we are rich" and his trainer stated back " You better turn around, because he is getting up and he looks pissed" He is also the insperation for the Rocky Movies

Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha -- One hell of a chin, could box, but could never beat the best. He did get a un deserved shot at the title agisnt Lewis where he was knocked out of the ring in the second round. He did how ever fight well.

Corey Sanders -- Before he beat Wlad Klitchko he was considered nothing more than a journey man, hard hitter, good hand speed, but very poor mng-ment.


There is too many to name, and none of these are in a particular order. I mainly mentioned Heavy weights, there are a lot of smaller fighters who were great Journy men as well.
 
#7 ·
This is an interesting topic. I submit that fighter classifications are often as misused in boxing as is the line "I love you" is in the real world.

An example of misuse, IMO, would be the distinction of "journeyman", as typically applied to James "Buster" Douglas, by the fans and media alike in his lead-up to the Mike Tyson match. A cursory review of the top ten rankings of that period and the three years previous, clearly shows James as being firmly ensconsed in the second-half of the top ten.

To me, that makes him a "contender". I feel that the term "journeyman" is a far better fit for a capable fighter that wins as much as he may lose, against respectable comp in or around the top thirty or latter-half of the fringe or top twenty.
 
#9 ·
Dr. Wisdom said:
I agree, he had a 4 leaf clover in his pocket agisnt Judah, and Gatti, he is just finial washed up. A prime Gatti would of boxed the snot of of him.
i had that bad version of gatti who should not have been near the 147 division up by 1 round when he was stopped it just shows how bad baldomir is.

god only knows what was up with zab but every once ahwile he turns in bad performances like this spinxs also springs to mind zab should never have lost to him.
 
#10 ·
Dr. Wisdom said:
Greatest Journymen ?? Wow that is a tough one, because there has been so many

Micky Ward -- Great Fighter, he did have a lot of ups and downs

Emanuel Augustus -- Will fight at the drop of a hat, has upset sevrial contenders, but has also lost some fights that he should not of

Ross Purity -- Has banged with the best of them.


Chuck Wepner -- I do not know if he should be condsidered an all time great, but he is worth mentioning. He is known mainly for knocking Ali down with a shot, and raising his hands shouting to his corner "Start the car and go to the bank because we are rich" and his trainer stated back " You better turn around, because he is getting up and he looks pissed" He is also the insperation for the Rocky Movies

Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha -- One hell of a chin, could box, but could never beat the best. He did get a un deserved shot at the title agisnt Lewis where he was knocked out of the ring in the second round. He did how ever fight well.

Corey Sanders -- Before he beat Wlad Klitchko he was considered nothing more than a journey man, hard hitter, good hand speed, but very poor mng-ment.


There is too many to name, and none of these are in a particular order. I mainly mentioned Heavy weights, there are a lot of smaller fighters who were great Journy men as well.
Thats right, I forgot about Wepner. You had to go threw him to become a contender.
 
#13 ·
pbf369 said:
Emanuel Augustus is got be one of the greatest j-men ever no doubt
I like Augustus, he is one of the greatest J-man. Those who have ever seen him fight, has to enjoy it. He gives a great show, fights hard, and can dance very well in the ring (literly) I am still waiting for him to pull of a windmill inside the ring, or a head spin.
 
#14 ·
Dr. Wisdom said:
I like Augustus, he is one of the greatest J-man. Those who have ever seen him fight, has to enjoy it. He gives a great show, fights hard, and can dance very well in the ring (literly) I am still waiting for him to pull of a windmill inside the ring, or a head spin.
You say good Things!
 
#17 ·
Journeyman by their very nature are anonomous,So once they become "known" then they have lost some of that allure.I am at the club level scene all the time. I have seen a lot of journeyman.Usually they are tough and you have to work hard to get them "out".,Here they are brought in to give some guys expierence on going the distance in 6 and 8 rounders.Most jm's have terrible records that doesn't reflect their talents and skill. The other sad thing is that most have lost very close dec. to the home town guy.So their records are lopsided.They are essential to this business......
 
#20 ·
Hope this first post isn't taken out of context. J-men are made from other combinations, also. Hometown crowds and referees, promotors with agendas, personal problems outside the ring, and incompetent trainers and managers have relegated some mighty good talent out of the mainstream to the top, and sometimes into obscurity.
 
#21 ·
Sinker said:
Hope this first post isn't taken out of context. J-men are made from other combinations, also. Hometown crowds and referees, promotors with agendas, personal problems outside the ring, and incompetent trainers and managers have relegated some mighty good talent out of the mainstream to the top, and sometimes into obscurity.
Yup, thats why boxing is a very brutal sprot out side of the ring too.
 
#24 ·
Geez...Quarry a journeyman ??? This guy was a top contender for years. He beat Floyd Patterson, Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis Sr., Larry Middleton, Ron Lyle, Mac Foster, Earnie Shavers and a host of others. His losses ? Only to guys like Ali, Frazier, Norton, Ellis and Chuvalo. Any boxing magazine you picked up in the late 60's and early 70's had SOMETHING on Quarry.
 
#25 ·
This article was written less than a year before Quarry passed away.

JERRY QUARRY



Mike Tyson was the self proclaimed "Baddest Man On The Planet." Even after his decisive loss to Buster Douglas in 1990 and three year exile to prison many still believed him. His two subsequent losses to Evander Holyfield have now changed all that. It's too bad that Mike didn't box in the talent rich late 60's and early 70's. If Mike would have wanted to meet a real "Tough Guy," he could have looked up Jerry Quarry.

Remember Jerry Quarry? He was a perennial mainstay in the heavyweight division throughout the 60's and 70's. The dominant "White Hope" of that era Jerry was always in the thick of the title picture and had a tremendous following. The fans either loved him or hated him. They could never seem to find a middle ground and either could the odds makers. Just when it seemed that Quarry had arrived at the crest of his skills, those skills would desert him. Untimely losses and remarkable come back wins were his claim to fame. What Jerry had is what the respected Evander Holyfield and many of today's other top heavyweight lack. That was charisma. Win or lose the fans always got their money's worth and the press produced reams of copy on Jerry's adventures in and out of the ring.

Quarry entered the pro ranks with the reputation as a comer. An accomplished amateur, Jerry's progress up the fistic ladder was on its way. As Jerry began to establish his credentials he began to receive more and more interest. One of the interested parties was the none other than Rocky Marciano. The rumor was that the "The Rock" was willing to pay $100,000 for Jerry's contract. Big money in those days. Just as this rosy scenario was unfolding the fates sent Jerry an omen of things to come. There messenger, Eddie Machen. Eddie was a hardluck ex-contender on the way down the ladder.

His name would look good on Quarry's resume. Fittingly when they entered Machen's name on Jerry's record there was an L-10 next to it. Marciano was no longer interested in Jerry's contract and now Quarry with dogged determination he would show throughout his career began the rebuilding process.

During his career much was written about the relationship Jerry had with the "Quarry Clan." Managed by his father Jack and constantly surrounded by family members, the press could never figure if the "Clan" was good for Jerry or not. Jerry seemed to have the same problem. Unconditional loyalty, internal arguments and marital difficulties. The "Clan's" battle royales in the auditorium parking lots sometimes upstaged Jerry's fight. The press loved it and the fans ate it up.

With or without family woes Quarry's career was soon back on track. When he held former champion Floyd Patterson to a draw he had hit the big time.

Again the fates would take over. Muhammad Ali was forced from his throne for failing to enter the US Army. Quickly the World Boxing Association chose eight men to compete in an elimination tournament to determine Ali's successor. Jerry was one of the eight chosen. In his first tourney bout he was again pitted against Patterson. This time Jerry got the verdict. In his next match Quarry squared off against tournament favorite, Thad Spencer.

Spencer had defeated ex-W.B.A. Champ Ernie Terrell and now the experts were picking him to beat Quarry. Jerry proved the experts wrong stopping Spencer in round twelve. Now Quarry was made the favorite in the championship match against Jimmy Ellis. Ellis was managed by Angelo Dundee and was a former spar mate of Ali's. Still the experts said that Ellis was just a blown up middleweight. They forgot that Ellis had beaten Leotis Martin and Oscar Bonavena to get to the finals. The bout itself was dull. Neither man refused to lead by the quicker handed Ellis won the decision and the title. Jerry's stock dropped dramatically and many began to wonder if Jerry "had the goods."

Quarry's loss to Ellis brought Jerry and the "Clan" back to reality. It was again time to start over. Jerry wasted little time as he trounced Buster Mathis over twelve rounds. His reward was a shot at the New York State heavyweight crown held by none other than Joe Frazier. The first two rounds of Jerry's 1969 bout with Frazier may have been Jerry's finest. He outslugged the consummate slugger.

Soon through it became apparent that this was Frazier's kind of fight. Jerry faded and was stopped in seven. Later that year Quarry met another top white hope in George Chuvalo. For six rounds Quarry outboxed his plodding foe. Desperate and bleeding Chuvalo came to life in round seven and floored Jerry. Quarry was dazed and misread the referee's count. The ref tolled ten and Jerry was counted out. Disbelieving and disillusioned it looked to Jerry like he had reached the end. Trying to squeeze one more payday from the Quarry name, Madison Square Garden match Jerry with Mac Foster who was 24-0 and the no. 1 contender. Again Jerry bounced back into the heavyweight picture destroying Foster in six rounds. Jerry's reward was a shot against the come backing Muhammad Ali. Although Jerry fought well, a bad cut over his eye lead to a third round stoppage. Quarry stayed active but the fire seemed to be missing. Not quite two years after their first bout, Jerry met Ali again. This time it was no contest. Ali dominated Jerry and the bout was halted in round seven. His performance was lethargic and the experts had written Jerry off as a has been. Deciding to give it one more try, Jerry hooked up with trainer Gil Clancy and began another remarkable comeback. A twelve round decision over previously unbeaten Ron Lyle put Jerry back in the ratings. He solidified this when he stopped Earnie Shavers in one round. Jerry was now matched for a second time again with Joe Frazier.

Frazier-Quarry II was a mismatch.

Jerry was never in the fight which was mercifully halted in round five. Jerry had one more shot at the big time when he was matched with Ken Norton. Game but out of condition, Quarry scored well early but ran out of gas. Norton picked him apart and stopped Jerry in the fifth. There was an awful come from behind victory over Lorenzo Zanon then Jerry slipped into oblivion He later tried to return as a cruiserweight but his skills had long ago eroded.

The problems that Jerry is facing today have been well documented. A testimony to every punch he absorbed from Ali, Frazier, and all the other top heavyweights he crossed gloves with. Who knows how Jerry's career would have gone if Ali and Frazier had not boxed in the same era? He has nothing to be ashamed of. He was a ranked contender for ten years in possibly the toughest heavyweight division of any era. When the division did become a little stagnant you better bet Jerry would do something to stir it up.

Charisma.
 
#26 ·
That young dude Hogan or Logan
He has like 60 to 70 fights and a 500 record or a little better
And 90% on 1 days notice against top notch guys.
I root for him every time out
I wish some promoter would give him a chance he could be an easy champ
One time he fought 5 times in one month.
 
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