Boxing Forum - Boxing Discussion Forums banner

Was Archie Moore the greatest Light Heavyweight boxer of all time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • No

    Votes: 2 22.2%
1 - 20 of 115 Posts

·
The Maul Brawling Slugger
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I mean... if you look at a large majority of other Light Heavyweight Boxing Champions... they had already made really good names for themselves in other weight classes and were better known for that weight class! Archie Moore was... in my opinion... the premier Light Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the world... he is certainly one of the most famous and acclaimed boxers of all time... so I say "YES"... Archie Moore was the greatest Light Heavyweight boxer of all time! :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
Was Archie Moore the greatest light heavyweight champion?

Maybe?

Billy Conn and Joey Maxin also come to mind.

JC
 

·
The Maul Brawling Slugger
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
JCC said:
Maybe?

Billy Conn and Joey Maxin also come to mind.

JC
They do come to mind... but how old was Joey Maxim when a "frightfully close to 40 years of age" Archie Moore beat him???:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
White Tyson said:
They do come to mind... but how old was Joey Maxim when a "frightfully close to 40 years of age" Archie Moore beat him?
Go learn something about Billy Conn, and you may be more slow to put Archie on top! Conn, came very near taking out a much bigger Joe Louis when Louis was in his prime.

Louis said it was the toughest fight he had ever had.

Conn had out boxed Louis and had the fight won up until he got cocky because he knew he had the fight won and got careless in a very late round.

Many consider the Louis-Conn fight of June 18, 1941 the greatest fight of all-time.

Go take a close look at that fight and a closer look at Billy Conn who was before your time and you'll learn something.

JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
There were several Great Light Heavyweights. Ezzard Charles was a Light Heavyweight or lighter, most of his career, so was Gene Tunney and Jimmy Bivins fought a lot of his bouts as a Light Heavyweight.

Of the Light Heavyweight Champions, you had Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Tommy Loughran, Bob Foster, Michael Spinks and Roy Jones Jr.

Here's what I found:

Boxing's Best of the Century
Dateline: 12/30/99

Light Heavyweight Fighter of Century as chosen by a five-member panel for The Associated Press:

1. Archie Moore, 194-26-8, 141 KO's. 1936-63. 28 years active.

2. Billy Conn, 63-11-1, 14 KO's. 1934-48. 11 years active.

3. Ezzard Charles, 96-25-1, 58 KO's. 1940-59. 17 years active.

4. Roy Jones Jr., 40-1, 33 KO's. 1989-still active.

5. Jimmy Bivins, 86-25-1, 31 KO's. 1940-55. 15 years active.

tie. Bob Foster, 56-8-1, 46 KO's. 1961-78. 18 years active.

7. Harold Johnson, 76-11, 32 KO's. 1946-71. 23 years active.

8. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, 100-7-16, 46 KO's, 33 ND. 1901-12. 12 years active.

tie. Tiger Jack Fox, 120-18-6, 81 KO's, 1932-50. 17 years active.

10. Maxie Rosenbloom, 208-37-22, 19 KO's, 22 ND. 1923-39. 15 years active.

Note: Career denotes years of first and last fights; years active is number of years with at least one fight.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
25,672 Posts
definatly a primed roy jones jnr, by an absolute mile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
In my veiw, Billy Conn, Gus Lesnevich, Joey Maxin, Archie Moore, D-ick Tiger and Bob Foster ... were the greatest light-heavyweight (161-175 pound weight class)fighters back in the time of the traditional eight divisions in Boxing's Golden Era (1940s-1980s).

I'd put Billy Conn and Archie Moore at the top of the list as being the greatest light-heavyweight (161-175 pound weight class) fighters in the history of gloved boxing.

Prime to prime, I'd pick Conn the winner over Moore in a ten round, twelve or fifth round fight by Conn taking the decision.

Roy Jones Jr, is an older man past his prime now fighting younger fighters on their up on his way down. Of his last four fights he lost three of those fights, but won his last fight.

In his prime, I saw Jones as being an exceptional fighter and champion in fighting others who are products of modern day watered-down boxing organizations and weight classes that could not even come close not to challenging especially the great Billy Conn and Archie Moore.

Jones had his first pro fight in 1989, at the very tail end of what many call Golden Era Boxings Golden Era (1940s-1980s).

Such great stars as Billy Conn, Archie Moore in part were great fighter was for much the reason of the better competition they fought coming up the ladder that Roy Jones Jr. had not the opportunity to fight. If Jones had, he would have even been a better and greater fighter.

Its the level of competition a fighter faces that will determine how great a fighter he'll be in a certian sense.

When there's stronger and more talent out there it makes you a better fighter, and you'll train harder, it'll force you to have more training discipline, and your have better sparring partners.

But I'd also like to add the reason, and primary reason I see there is a lack of talent in our sport of boxing today; is there are now easier paths to fame and fortune these days to attract the most talented Amercian athletes.

For example, today, they can make millions in baseball, football, basketball, and as the richest, most famous of them all. Tiger Woods, can attest, the non-violent sport of golf.

In light of all that it makes little sense for America's most talented athletes to spill their blood and risk their brains in our sport of boxing.

The reason that fight fans got to enjoy what many would veiw as the Golden Era of Boxing, the 1940s through 1980s, is much for the reason times were more different then, and there were fewer choices in Amercia for the sons of immigrants and racially oppressed blacks. That turned many of them to the our sport of boxing, for many it was either that or to forever laboring in obscurity.

Times have changed, and the sport of boxing has changed too. And over all this is much the reason I see it has changed.

Generally, for the more talented Amercian athletes today, with some possible exceptions boxing as a sport does not attract any more.

I think boxing as a sport may remain out there, but not likely to ever to return to its height of popularity as it had been in its Golden Era. Or, if it does come back it likely won't be boxing as we know it today. Nor, as it was in past era's either.

JC
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
25,672 Posts
JCC said:
In my veiw, Billy Conn, Gus Lesnevich, Joey Maxin, Archie Moore, D-ick Tiger and Bob Foster ... were the greatest light-heavyweight (161-175 pound weight class)fighters back in the time of the traditional eight divisions in Boxing's Golden Era (1940s-1980s).

I'd put Billy Conn and Archie Moore at the top of the list as being the greatest light-heavyweight (161-175 pound weight class) fighters in the history of gloved boxing.

Prime to prime, I'd pick Conn the winner over Moore in a ten round, twelve or fifth round fight by Conn taking the decision.

Roy Jones Jr, is an older man past his prime now fighting younger fighters on their up on his way down. Of his last four fights he lost three of those fights, but won his last fight.

In his prime, I saw Jones as being an exceptional fighter and champion in fighting others who are products of modern day watered-down boxing organizations and weight classes that could not even come close not to challenging especially the great Billy Conn and Archie Moore.

Jones had his first pro fight in 1989, at the very tail end of what many call Golden Era Boxings Golden Era (1940s-1980s).

Such great stars as Billy Conn, Archie Moore in part were great fighter was for much the reason of the better competition they fought coming up the ladder that Roy Jones Jr. had not the opportunity to fight. If Jones had, he would have even been a better and greater fighter.

Its the level of competition a fighter faces that will determine how great a fighter he'll be in a certian sense.

When there's stronger and more talent out there it makes you a better fighter, and you'll train harder, and it'll force you to have more training discipline.

But I'd also like to add the reason, and primary reason I see there is a lack of talent in our sport of boxing today; is there are now easier paths to fame and fortune these days to attract the most talented Amercian athletes.

For example, today, they can make millions in baseball, football, basketball, and as the richest, most famous of them all. Tiger Woods, can attest, the non-violent sport of golf.

In light of all that it makes little sense for America's most talented athletes to spill their blood and risk their brains in our sport of boxing.

The reason that fight fans got to enjoy what many would veiw as the Golden Era of Boxing, the 1940s through 1980s, is much for the reason times were more different then, and there were fewer choices in Amercia for the sons of immigrants and racially oppressed blacks. That turned many of them to the our sport of boxing, for many it was either that or to forever laboring in obscurity.

Times have changed, and the sport of boxing has changed too. And over all this is much the reason I see it has changed.

Generally, for the more talented Amercian athletes today, with some possible exceptions boxing as a sport does not attract any more.

I think boxing as a sport may remain out there, but not likely to ever to return to its height of popularity as it had been in its Golden Era.

JC
roy jones had to be one of the best athleates in the world when he was on top. the guy would play semi-pro basketball the morning of his fights. jones was finnished after his move to hw this happens to a lot of guy's who mess about with there weight.

jones had a zillion ways to win a fight he could trade, box or swarm his way to victory, his speed and skill were on a diffrent level to moore and conn and he had enough pop to put these guy's away, over an 8 year period rjj was untouchable at 175 till he chose to fight ruiz which affected his reflexes (which were his mane atribute).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
tommygunn said:
roy jones had to be one of the best athletes in the world when he was on top.
I don't think there can be any question about that at all.

Also there was a time in which boxer's over all had by far more training discipline than they do today too.

Boxer's who keep themselves in peak condition, are in my veiw the most over all well-conditioned athletes in the world.

Fight fans that have never boxed really have no idea just how long those rounds are, and in the pro's the rounds are ever longer they seen forever.

Alot of fight fans like to talk about power and speed. But there can be other kinds of strengths, and stamina is a strength too.

Its really a lot of hard work for the heavyweights to increase it too.

Big men aren't built for long rounds like smaller guys. They spend more energy to move their bodies much more than smaller men.

I think that for the heavyweights if they would cut their fights to having less rounds today there would be better fights.

In part, I say that because the heavyweights have to pace themselves so much more in going long rounds. I think 12, or even 10 are too long for heavyweights.

Even back in Boxing's Golden Era I think the rounds were too long for the heavyweights.

tommygunn said:
... the guy would play semi-pro basketball the morning of his fights.

jones was finished after his move to hw this happens to a lot of guy's who mess about with there weight.
I agree. If it's not a natural weight for them they tend to be too fat. Harder for heavyweights to be all just muscle and bone as the smaller fighters.

But if their too fat its going to affect their performance.

Of course, I can understand why they want want to fight heavyweight there is more money there.

tommygunn said:
jones had a zillion ways to win a fight he could trade, box or swarm his way to victory, his speed and skill were on a diffrent level to moore and conn and he had enough pop to put these guy's away, over an 8 year period rjj was untouchable at 175 till he chose to fight ruiz which affected his reflexes (which were his mane atribute).
I saw Jones as being a superior fighter, he could box, he could punch, and had good defensive skills.

If Jones had entered the professional ranks around 30 years, or more earlier than he did when there was more over all talent. I believe he would have even been a greater fighter.

Stronger competition tends to weed out the mediocre and serves to produce more talented and more well-conditioned fighter.

But of course, there is always going to be some mediocre fighters and guys that really aren't in all that good a shape in every era and was in every era.

Jones is very near 40 years old now, boxing is a young man's sport for guys in their teens and twenties.

But if a fighter have a name that can still draw money, crowds and attention, naturally some even many are going to stay too long.

For a lot of guys that have lived that life for a long time it kind of comes to be the only place that life makes sense especially if they are really good fighters like Jones. For that's the place that they feel like somebody, a king, or at least in a certain sense so they keep fighting, and some find out too late like Muhummed Ali did that you can't stay young forever. Maybe in mind you can but not in body.

JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
The AP list Henry posted looks good to me for the most part. One thing I did think was a little odd, however, was the exclusion of Michael Spinks. It's a good list, otherwise.

Archie moore is definitely the greatest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
RoccoMarciano said:
The AP list Henry posted looks good to me for the most part. One thing I did think was a little odd, however, was the exclusion of Michael Spinks. It's a good list, otherwise.

Archie moore is definitely the greatest.

I agree that Spinks should have been among the best Light Heavyweights.

If Jones would have retired after the Ruiz bout, he would have been considered the Best by a lot of Boxing experts.

He use to shutout most of his opponents when he was at his best. He won 8 out of 12 rounds against Hopkins, and the official scorecards against Toney was:

Judge: John Stewart 119-108
Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109
Judge: Glen Hamada 117-111

When he was at his best, he could have beaten any Light Heavyweight.

Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney and Jimmy Bivins fought a lot of his bouts as a Light Heavyweight.

Of the Light Heavyweight Champions, you had Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Tommy Loughran, Bob Foster, Michael Spinks and Roy Jones Jr.

Anyone of these Great boxers would give anyone all they could handle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Tommy, no question RJJ,in his prime, was a world class athlete,however as compaired to Moore,RJJ career won't be as long and he won't be a champ in his "old age".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
The Auctioneer said:
Tommy, no question RJJ, in his prime, was a world class athlete, however as compaired to Moore, RJJ career won't be as long and he won't be a champ in his "old age".
Often when I think about Archie Moore I'm amazed at his long livity. Nature is more kind to some than others. In part at least I think its genetic. Some people are just more genetically better put togather than others.

JC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
JCC said:
Maybe?

Billy Conn and Joey Maxin also come to mind.

JC
What I know of Maxim I don't see him as one of the best lightheavys of all time.
I didn't see that much merit in his win over Robinson.
He gave Patterson his first loss.
He did not hold the lightheavy title that long,lost most of his fights when fighting top names.
He was a smart fighter, good but great?:dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
hhascup said:
I agree that Spinks should have been among the best Light Heavyweights.

If Jones would have retired after the Ruiz bout, he would have been considered the Best by a lot of Boxing experts.

He use to shutout most of his opponents when he was at his best. He won 8 out of 12 rounds against Hopkins, and the official scorecards against Toney was:

Judge: John Stewart 119-108
Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109
Judge: Glen Hamada 117-111

When he was at his best, he could have beaten any Light Heavyweight.

Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney and Jimmy Bivins fought a lot of his bouts as a Light Heavyweight.

Of the Light Heavyweight Champions, you had Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Tommy Loughran, Bob Foster, Michael Spinks and Roy Jones Jr.

Anyone of these Great boxers would give anyone all they could handle.
I still think Archie is the best of the bunch - it doesn't have anything to do with Marciano beating him either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
RoccoMarciano said:
... it doesn't have anything to do with Marciano beating him either.
Same here! ;)

But for me its Billy Conn and Archie Moore.

Really too close for me to call.

So I'll just call it a draw, and put them both on top.

JCC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
niko said:
What I know of Maxim I don't see him as one of the best lightheavys of all time.


I didn't see that much merit in his win over Robinson.
I never said he was a greater fighter than Sugar Ray Robinson.

When you read the the list of names I gave ... Billy Conn, Gus Lesnevich, Joey Maxim, Archie, D-ick Tiger and Bob Foster it was in reference to superior light heavyweights.

Sugar Ray was no superior light heavyweight.

Robinson was a superior welterweight and middleweight fighter.

The topic of this discusson is "Was Archie Moore the greatest light heavyweight of all time?" And I said those were the names that come to mind when I think of the greatest light heavyweights.


niko said:
He gave Patterson his first loss.
He did not hold the lightheavy title that long, lost most of his fights when fighting top names.

He was a smart fighter, good but great?:dunno:
If someone says to me that Joey Maxin wasn't a great light heavyweight?

I want to ask if they ever saw him fight?

I want to ask really just how much they know about all his opponents.

Just looking at someones record won't tell you all that much if you don't really know any thing about their opponents.

If your only familiar with one of their opponents. It would be really hard for you to be able to evaluate their professional career.

Joey Maxin is considered by many to be one of the greatest light heavyweights.

I don't say Maxin was the greatest light heavyweight of them all. I say he was one of the greatest light heavyweights because he was one of the greatest light heavyweight fighters.

JCC
 
1 - 20 of 115 Posts
Top