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Was Archie Moore the greatest Light Heavyweight boxer of all time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • No

    Votes: 2 22.2%
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White Tyson said:
So what you're saying is... Joey Maxim was A **** BOXER because he lost to a 39 year old Archie Moore???
no what im saying is maxim was a **** boxer because of all the other bums he lost to.
 

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tommygunn said:
orlando trotter. 11-7-1.
booker beckworth. 26-8
charley roth. 17-29

altus allen. 19-9-1

clarence brown. 20-23-3
curtis sheppard 52-33.

just some of the guys records who beat maxim.
Joey Maxin had a lot of pro fights, and won most of his fights.

Joey had 115 pro fights, and won 82, lost 29, and had 4 draws.

Joey had his first pro fight in 1940, and his last pro fight in 1958.

* As for the fighter's you mentioned Orland Trotter, that was in Joey's early professional career in 1941. That was Joey's third pro fight. Trotter got the 10 round decison.

* Booker Beckworth --- this fight was in 1942. Beckworth got the 10 round decison.

* Charley Beckworth --- this fight was also in 1942. Beckham got the 10 round decison.

* Charley Roth --- also in 1942, however. It their rematch in that same year, Joey KO'd Roth in the third round.

* Attus Allen --- Joey lost to also in 1942.

* Clarence Brown --- was in 1943. Brown got the 10 round decision, however. Joey won the rematch in that same year.

* Curtis Sheppard was also 1942, Sheppard won by having KO'd Joey, however. Joey won their rematch in that same year.

Joey's first bout with Sheppard, was the one and only time he'd ever lost a fight by being Ko'd in his professional career.

Joey Maxin was very talented fighter. He was a very methodical boxer. He had strategy, and used strategy to win his fights.

In boxing, we always had bacially two kind of fighters in a certian sense. Boxers and punchers, or sluggers.

Joey was more the pure boxer, he was a very talented and skilled boxer. He won most his bouts by on points by out boxing his opponents.

Of the 115 pro fights he had, and 82 bouts he won, he won 21 of his fights by knocking out his opponents.

Joey was more the pure boxer, not the puncher or slugger as fighter.

Joey was an Amercian boxer, and a good looking guy. I don't mean as a fighter, but as a man. He was a very handsome man.

As a fighter Joey also had superior defense skills, and he could also make you miss a lot of punches.

During Joey Maxin's professional career that spanned near two decades he held the title of being the undisputed light heavyweight champion of the world.

Boxing historians who classify Joey Maxin, who was not a slugger, but more a pure boxer tend to note that Joey never sought the hard-hitting veiws of Britian's ill-fated "Freddie Mills."

After Freddie Mills had lost his world light heavyweight crown to Joey Maxin, by being having knocked out Mills in the 10 th round at London Early Court on January 23, 1950.

After the fight three of Freddie Mills teeth were extracted from Joey's glove.

It was a grisly reminder of how Joey Maxin's left jab had prompted him to take his name "Maxin," from the earlier machine gun.


Despite scoring a modest number of knockouts in his professional career (21 Kos). Joey was a real tough guy, tough in body, and tough in mind. And was always well-conditioned, an extremely well-conditioned fighter.

Joey Maxin's has my respect and admiration for over coming some of the best fighters of his era through skill, persistence and ring craft.

Joey was only stopped (Ko'd) once in his professional career that spanned near two decades in which he faces 10 world champions.

Joey learned to fight at an early age, and an amatuer boxer he was an outstanding middleweight having won the Chicago Golden Gloves, the Intercity Golden Gloves, and the National AAA championship before having turned pro in 1940 in beginning his professional career.

Joey Maxin is most famous for his five bout series with Ezzard Charles, his three bouts with Archie Moore, and his contest with Sugar Robinson.

Joey defeated such stars as "Sugar" Ray Robinson, Floyd Patterson, "Jersey" Joe Walcott, Jimmy Bivins, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Mills, Bob Satterfield, "Irish" Bob Murphy, Clarence "Red" Barman, Nate Bowen and Jack "Buddy" Walker.

Joey Maxin was inducted into the RING HALL OF FAME in 1975, the NTA SPORTS HALL OF FAME in 1979, and the INTERNATIONAL BOXING HALL OF FAME in 1994.

JJC
 

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nobodys saying he wasn't a good fighter but when you see the guys he lost to there are some prety ordinary names on it with losing records. i wouldn't consider him thee best or in the top 5 lightheavyweights because he never had the concistancy of a spinks or roy jones.

maxims win against robinson looks very good on paper but when you read into it that was one of the hottest nights of the year and sugar ray collapsed in his corner suffering from heat prostration.

during the maxim vs robinson fight the heat was so intence that the refere had to be replaced after 10 rounds because he had collapsed.

the scoring for the fight when sugar ray got the heat bug was. 9-3-1. 10-3. and 7-3-3 all for robinson so basicly maxim was getting a bit of a pasting in that fight.

the floyd paterson fight was daylight robbery the judging in that fight was unbeleivable, "cus damatos words not mine" in patersons 2 year carrer he was unbeaten then looked a clear winner against maxim only to lose a u.d. the 11 sports wrighters at ringside all scored the fight handsomly for paterson and the newspapers the next day were less than gracious towards the judging.
 

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tommygunn said:
i wouldn't consider him thee best or in the top 5 lightheavyweights because he never had the concistancy of a spinks or roy jones.
I was impressed by Roy Jones Jr. and Spinks in their prime. But maybe not quite as much you.

tommygunn said:
maxims win against robinson looks very good on paper but when you read into it that was one of the hottest nights of the year and sugar ray collapsed in his corner suffering from heat prostration.
I know all about the excuses Sugar Ray Robinson and his people gave for losing.

But hey, Joey Maxin didn't have any air conditioning in his corner either. ;)


JJC
 

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JCC said:
I was impressed by Roy Jones Jr. and Spinks in their prime. But maybe not quite as much you.



Yeah, I heard the about the excuses Robinson and his people gave for losing.

But hey, Joey Maxin didn't have any air conditioning in his corner either. ;)


JJC
yeah jcc i thought your reply would be something along the lines of that.

have you seen the fight jcc? if you have you'd obviously have seen ray colapse in his corner at the end of the round.

i have this fight on a robinson dvd. its a subscrition called deAgostini's boxers. it has ray's fight with olson which was just before the maxim fight and it also has his battles with basilio. :cool:
 

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tommygunn said:
yeah jcc i thought your reply would be something along the lines of that.

have you seen the fight jcc?

if you have you'd obviously have seen ray colapse in his corner at the end of the round.
Yeah, I saw it!

The last three rounds of the Maxin-Robinson fight can be seen now at ... youtube.


tommygunn said:
i have this fight on a robinson dvd. its a subscrition called deAgostini's boxers. it has ray's fight with olson which was just before the maxim fight and it also has his battles with basilio.
Sounds like a great fight tape.

JJC
 

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JCC said:
Yeah, I saw it!

The last three rounds of the Maxin-Robinson fight can be seen now at ... youtube.




Sounds like a great fight tape.

JJC
well if you saw it jcc do you personaly think that maxim was a worthy winner? i tend to think you need to land punches in a fight to win it. but maxim has the w and he was standing at the end so.........
 

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tommygunn said:
well if you saw it jcc do you personaly think that maxim was a worthy winner?

i tend to think you need to land punches in a fight to win it.

but maxim has the w and he was standing at the end so.........
Suppose if it had been the other way around.

Suppose it had been Sugar Ray Robinson who had been behind in the fight, and it had been Joey Maxin who had refused, or had been unable to anwser the bell for the next round.

Do you think Robinson would been a worthy winner?

You know the rules!

If you refuse to answer the bell for the next round, or are unable to answer the bell for the next round the fight's over and you lose. Its counted as a TKO, a technical knockout.

There have been many, many fights in which have ended in that way for various reasons in which a fighter refused, or was unable to answer the bell for the next round. You know that!

Was Joey Maxin a worthy winner?

Absolutely, it was a fair fight!

Maxin was hot and tired too. He didn't have any air conditioning in his corner either.

Really, its better Robinson didn't answer the bell for the 14 th round. For if he had, in being as exhausted as he had appeared in the 13 th round. He may well have got knocked out by Maxin had he answered the bell for the 14 th round, and most likely would have if he had answered the bell for that round.

Don't misunderstand what I saying.

I think Sugar Ray Robinson was a better fighter than Joey Maxin. But in that particular fight, in a certian sense he wasn't the better fighter. He didn't win the fight!

You can out box your opponent, and be ahead on points, even be far ahead, even to have won every round. But to win, you have to be able to finish the fight.

JJC
 

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robinson won the battle but maxim won the war.
 

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tommygunn said:
robinson won the battle but maxim won the war.
Your right!

There should have been a rematch, but Robinson went into retirement after that fight with Maxin.

If there had been a rematch, likely Robinson would have beaten Maxin, assuming he was still in good health and able to train hard and to have been in peak physical condition.

In his fight with Maxin, his body gave out, his body quit on him in that fight. Maxin was still carrying his hands high in the last round of their fight just as high as he had in the first round. He was more well-conditioned than Robinson, and I saw that's much the reason Maxin won the fight. He just out lasted him, and was just tougher in body than Robinson. At least in that fight he was any way.

JJC
 

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Roy jones jr was at his peak. you couldnt match that speed and power. Ok maybe not lightheavyweight but definently middle weight, if he would of stayed there, we wouldnt even know who bernard hopkins was.
 

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tysonjones said:
Roy jones jr was at his peak. you couldnt match that speed and power. Ok maybe not lightheavyweight but definently middle weight, if he would of stayed there, we wouldnt even know who bernard hopkins was.
At middleweight Robinson, LaMatta, Basilio, Haggler, and Monzon were king, and at Lightheavy Foster, Conn, Moore, Charles, and Torres were some of the greats. I'm not saying that Jones isn't in the top 10, I'm just saying that he's not the greatest or top 3 in either.
 

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apart from delahoya roy has beaten more champs and former champs than any fighter in history. and made them all look ordinary doing so. roys the best lightheavy weight in history and it aint even close.

a mate of mine from another board today was telling me that on a rescent poll on fightnews it was asking who was the best fighter of b-hop and roy. roy won it by an absolute landslide.

the best allround fighter in history bar none!!!
 

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tommygunn said:
apart from delahoya roy has beaten more champs and former champs than any fighter in history. and made them all look ordinary doing so. roys the best lightheavy weight in history and it aint even close.

a mate of mine from another board today was telling me that on a rescent poll on fightnews it was asking who was the best fighter of b-hop and roy. roy won it by an absolute landslide.

the best allround fighter in history bar none!!!
Now that is just naieve. Moore was a much better lightheavyweight.
 

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tell me what was archie moore beter at doing than rjj. or what beter atributes did he have.

obviously longlivity.......
 

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tommygunn said:
tell me what was archie moore beter at doing than rjj. or what beter atributes did he have.

obviously longlivity.......
Power, defence, chin, heart, and stamina.
 

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defence and stamina? i dont think so! roys defence was the best of any fighter through the 90's. he went 4 years without losing a round and stopping everybody he faced. his stamina was brilliant, roy would play semi-pro basketball the morning of a fight.
 

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I found fight trainer Lou Duva's veiw quite interesting in a 2004 interveiw that could relate to this topic of discussion.

............

Those guys that call themselves champs today wouldn't have a chance against the great champions of the past.

When you see guys like Roy Jones Jr. and Johnny Ruiz fight for the heavyweight title, come on, that ridiculous.

Their not even in the same league as the great champions of the past.

What do you think Roy Jones would do right now if he had to fight guys like Ezzard Charles, Billy Conn, and Joey Maxin?

Roy's a friend of mine, but there's no chance he'd win.

I respect the old time fighters much more than boxers that are in there today.

None of these modern guys could beat those old time fighters.

LOU DUVA

...............


Two weeks after Lou Duva had said this in an interview on September 25, 2004, Roy Jones Jr. fought International Boxing Federation Light Heavyweight Champion Glen Johnson, a journeyman with a record of 41-9-2, who was making his first defence of the title.

Jones, who was heavy favorite going into that fight, got knocked out in the ninth round, by the 35 year-old Johnson, and Jones had to be taken to the hospital after the bout.

It was the second fight in a sucession in which Jones had been KO'd, having been stopped in the second round on May 15, 2004 by Antonio Tarver to lose his WBA and WBO light heavyweight titles.

Jones had a record of 49 victories and three losses with 38 kos, and held world titles as a middleweight, super-middleweight and for 8 years as light heavyweight champion. He had exceptional speed and was considered by many to be the greatest fighter of modern times.

However, Jones ducked a number of stars to begin with and rarely was tested against high class opponents.

Jones only fight as a heavyweight was March 2003 when he won a 12 round decision over the unimpressive WBA champion Johnny Ruiz.

What Jones fight with Ruiz really showed was that Jones would not have fared well against outstanding heavyweights.

Lou Duva most likely accurately concludes that light heavyweight champions from boxing's golden era such as Archie Moore, Joey Maxin and Billy Conn, and contenders such as Ezzard Charles, who moved up to become heavyweight champ, would have defeated Jones.

JJC
 

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old lou should put the bottle down.
 
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