Captainobvious99 said:
So youre saying that punching bags strengthens tendons and ligaments, and that lifting weights doesn't, is that correct? Id love to see some EVIDENCE of that statement.
Weight training can increase the the size of strength of muscles, reshaping your body and make you look great. However, weight training generally only works with the muscles that are seen and does not address the majority of muscles that have no aesthetic value.
Chimpanzees, as an example, are eight times stronger than a man. How do chimpanzees exercise, they do not lift weights.
Weight training generally does not address the strength of ligaments and tendons. Weight training can create an inbalance, where some muscles are strong and abnormally large, and other muscles are weak and disaproportionate in size.
However, there are other forms of resistence exercises that does not involve training with weights that do address the majority of muscles and will strengthen the muscles of including muscles that are seen that have an aesthetic value as well as to also strengthen the muscles that aren't seen that have no aesthetic value and will also strengthen ligaments and tendons which weight training generally will not do.
For example, doing hard calisthenics or more intense calisthenics and isometic types of resistance exercises do address the majority of muscles which weight training generally will not do for a person.
Captianobvious99 said:
A medicine ball is a WEIGHTED plyometric training tool. So, actually, it is lifting weights, just not the kind you envision when you think about "pumping iron" like I stated before. The problem is that your not understanding what im explaining to you, not that you may or may not agree with it. Which could be that I'm not the best at getting out what im trying to say, so I apologize.
No, I understand what your saying, and it just that your of the opinion that lifting weights can help boxers perform better apparently. Its just that I know the exact opposite of that to be true.
For example, I heard someone once point out that fact that during the HBO boardcast of the
Delahoya-Vargas fight (2002), that fight trainer
Emanuel Steward stated that weight lifting had caused Vargas to tire much more quickly.
Steward's right, it will cause a fighter to tire more quickly.
By the way, there are people who think weight lifting and having big muscles is what generates punching power.
I had mentioned this in my last post but I think its worth mentioning again, that
its leverage, speed, and timing that generates punching power, not lifting weights and having big muscles, that isn't what generates punching power.
Fight trainers that are ex-fighters and are really good fighter trainers all know this.
For example, the fight trainer Emanuel Steward who was
Lennox Lewis' trainer would never let Lewis lift weights, he's also now
Wladimir Klitschko's trainer, and he's got Klitschko on the same training routine as he had Lewis on without weight training.
By the way, at one time Klitschko did train with weights, but since he's stopped training with weights his performance has much improved as a fighter.
All Klitschko's training now is old school, and he's a by far better fighter now since he's switched, and has now gotten completely away the so-called modern training techniques.
Captianobvious99 said:
Clinches are used so much today not only because of fatigue (which was the case in the "old days" as well as today), but also because some boxers aren't learning how to fight in close without clinching.
They get a pot shot coming in and then don't know what to do other than hold.
I see it just as much as you do, but that DOESNT ALWAYS MEAN THAT THE BOXER IS TIRED.
I've heard this discussed by many boxing analysts, and this is exactly what they say as well.
Of course you'll have some guys who are tired and out of shape clinching, but you also see alot more clinching because of poor training, and the "play it safe" instead of the punching your way out mindset.
Guys don't know what to do once they get in too close, and so they just grab to prevent themselves from being hit. Which sucks. Fighters are moving to the pro ranks with much shorter amatuer careers under their belts these days, and its showing. They are just not well enough prepared in many cases.
Yes there is more clinching but I dont think that its a result of much more poorly conditioned fighters than those of yesteryear, as you would suggest.
Well, as for what you over all said that may be. But was for fighters being less well-conditioned today than they were in pass era's, it obvious that that aren't as well-conditioned today. Just taking for the heavyweights for example, today in active rounds they throw by far less throws in an active rounds on an average than heavyweights of past era's. That's a sign they are not as well-conditioned as fighters of past era's.
Also their weight today, between fights on the average will vary 20-40 pounds where as it use to be only 6-8 pounds which is a sign of a lack of training discipline.
Captianobvious99 said:
You keep going on about a "boxers body".
There are all shapes and sizes of bodies within each weightclass today.
Some very muscular and some solid, some even flabby.
People's bodies and muscles react differently to different kinds of resistence.
What works for some doesn't always work the same for others.
A guy who is flabby could actually be in better shape then the guy with the solid body, and visa versa.
So it doesn't matter WHAT the body looks like.
As I said before, there have been many advances in our knowledge of the body and how it reacts to different training methods in the last 50 years.
Whether you choose to acknowledge that fact or not, it still remains a fact.
Just because traditional workouts WORK, doesnt mean that they are the most effective way to condition everyone's body for fighting.
Telling people that lifting weights is BAD for a fighter is not giving them all the information!
Just because a typewriter worked great 40 years ago, doesn't mean that using a computer is bad.
We've learned more since then and have come up with more efficient ways to achieve a specific goal, much the same as we have done with exercise science.
This is all Im trying to get across here:
While I believe that the tried and true methods of fight training have remained pretty much a constant, there are additional ways of "strengthening and conditioning" outside of pugilistic skill training that can be very effective when used in conjunction with a traditional workout.
First I want to thank you for taking of your time to share you thoughts about all this for it has allowed me an opportunity to point out things that are wrong as for the ways that a lot of fighters are being trained today.
How I know how good the training is, it produces?
I made a general statement that boxers don't have boxers bodies today, and the reason for it is because boxers aren't all training in all the same ways they had use to. By the way,
George Foreman, I've heard him say this too.
Heavyweights for example, it has always been hard for them to go long rounds, and that's always been true. Because they aren't built for it like fighters in the lighter weight divisions are.
But never has it been as hard for heavyweights to go long rounds as today, only because they have less stamina than the heavyweights of past era's, and in part its because some or even many are lifting weights and they are not training in all the same ways that fighters that were more well-conditioned did in past era's, too much of the training has changed and how I know how good the training is by what it produces?
Do we have better fighters today, and more well-conditioned fighters than we did is past era's? Hardly! Just the opposite is true.
If fact, the over all performances are so poor today that few fans even have interest in boxing any more. If a person really knows much about the sport of boxing at all they are going to know that's true.
As for this training with weights thing for boxers!
I find that generally the only trainers, perhaps with some exceptions, are mostly trainers that have never boxed and don't have any boxing experience, and have never been fighters, and the wanna be's (to be good fighters) who had never succeeded in doing so, are mostly the only people who advocate lifting weights for boxers.
